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Thread: Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

  1. #1
    Ausfish Addict disorderly's Avatar
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    Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

    I was in having a chat to a local Minn Kota dealer about a trolling motor battery set up.

    They are also a service centre with trained techs and have been given recent advice that because Lithium Batteries run at a higher voltage for longer periods than lead acid batteries they can damage the motor due to overheating of the circuitry and may cause premature failure...

    The latest advice is that Minn Kota don't support the use of Lithium ion batteries and that the longevity of the motor cant be guaranteed..

    I'm not certain but that kinda sounds like maybe if your Minn kota motor burns out and you are running lithiums that you may not be covered by warranty.....

    It might be worth clarifying with your local Minn Kota guy if you have such a setup or ,like me, were contemplating getting one...

  2. #2

    Re: Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

    Sounds a bit like an urban myth to me if that was the case you would also be getting circuitry burn outs if you were to use a high capacity lead acid battery, eg run a 200 a/h battery to get longer run times against say a 100a/h battery,
    My main concern with a lithium battery is that they shut off when the voltage falls below a certain voltage and you are left with nothing whereas with a lead acid battery you can still limp home even though it does not do the battery any good. ( Assuming that you only have battery power and no other means of propulsion,) I fish an electric only dam and use two banks of 4X 6volt 240 a/h batterys and run 2 80lb kotas at full throttle with continuous run times up to 3 hours and never had any problems
    Cheers
    Ray

  3. #3

    Re: Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

    Sounds a bit like an urban myth to me if that was the case you would also be getting circuitry burn outs if you were to use a high capacity lead acid battery, eg run a 200 a/h battery to get longer run times against say a 100a/h battery,<br>
    My main concern with a lithium battery is that they shut off when the voltage falls below a certain voltage and you are left with nothing whereas with a lead acid battery you can still limp home even though it does not do the battery any good. ( Assuming that you only have battery power and no other means of propulsion,) I fish an electric only dam and use two banks of 4 x6volt 240 a/h batterys to give 2 X 24 volt banks and run 2 X 80lb kotas at full throttle with continuous run times up to 3 hours and never had any problems<br>
    Cheers<br>
    Ray also sent email to BLA

  4. #4
    Ausfish Addict disorderly's Avatar
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    Re: Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

    Ray I'm only passing on what was shown to me by the dealer.....It does also state the following...

    "There are now some lithium batteries..that are designed to give a discharge curve similar to AGM batteries but we have not carried out tests ...blah blah blah "

  5. #5

    Re: Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

    the other issue with lithium is if they short its rather spectacular
    i was using one to start a blueprinted 125cc kart engine and had a racing incident where another kart caused the battery to short
    it was just carnage carbon fibre seat destroyed frame rail destroyed battery holder gone in a flash

  6. #6

    Re: Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

    cost aside it appears there are a ton of guys in the states adopting lithium batteries especially in the 36 v systems...

    I recently looked into a 36v option for a rhodan electric to hold a 7m cat on spot lock and needless to say it wasnt cheap....

  7. #7

    Re: Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by stevej View Post
    the other issue with lithium is if they short its rather spectacular
    i was using one to start a blueprinted 125cc kart engine and had a racing incident where another kart caused the battery to short
    it was just carnage carbon fibre seat destroyed frame rail destroyed battery holder gone in a flash
    steve, were they Lithium Ion or Lithium Iron Phosphate (FePo4, sometimes labelled Ion Phosphate), Li Ion batteries do explode/burn but not found an actual case of the FePo4 doing so, the circuitry inside are totally different.

  8. #8

    Re: Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by rayken1938 View Post
    Sounds a bit like an urban myth to me if that was the case you would also be getting circuitry burn outs if you were to use a high capacity lead acid battery, eg run a 200 a/h battery to get longer run times against say a 100a/h battery,
    My main concern with a lithium battery is that they shut off when the voltage falls below a certain voltage and you are left with nothing whereas with a lead acid battery you can still limp home even though it does not do the battery any good. ( Assuming that you only have battery power and no other means of propulsion,) I fish an electric only dam and use two banks of 4X 6volt 240 a/h batterys and run 2 80lb kotas at full throttle with continuous run times up to 3 hours and never had any problems
    Cheers
    Ray
    Ray, I agree re the voltage bit, the average deep cycle battery is around 12.65 Volts and AGM's are around 12.8 Volts when fully charged but that's OK. Sounds like someone is looking for an out.

    You will get a lot more run out of an FePo4 battery than your lead acid or AGM's purely because of the DOD and you can save a lot of weight, supposedly. The main issue is that FePo4 batteries are still quite expensive, you need to run them separately to other batteries in the same circuit, probably doesn't affect you but does bigger boats with house batteries etc, requires a DC to DC charger (another expensive item) in your boat if you want to charge them as they must have a consistent charge rate otherwise you will shorten their life considerably. It will work for you but as mentioned the prices will need to come down, I often see 70 amp FePo4 down to around the $800 then add in a Dc to DC charger, the charge from one of these will give you the same usage as 150amp easily (a lot will quote higher figures) so 2 of these (usage of around 70 amps)will see running a lot longer, your DOD usage is around 48 amps. Then a lot of them need a 40 amp charger at home, how many people have those as most will have 10 or 15 amps max, more expense. Starter FePo4 batteries are another issue altogether.

    Cheers Sam

  9. #9

    Re: Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

    Interestingly - I know of a Minn Kota & Motorguide dealer & authorised Minn Kota repairer who is running LiFePO4s in his own personal boat . .. go figure

    I've been running 2 x 100amp LiFePO4s for my 80lb Minn Kota for the past 9 months without any issues . It is true that when the batteries are drawn down - they shut down completely so they run as normal - then stop .

    If you can afford them & have suitable chargers .. they are the way to go because you can draw them down to 90-95% DOD and still get a good life out of them - not to mention cutting down the weight by 50%

    I recently did a trip to NQ & spotlocked in pretty unpleasant conditions ( 25-40km/ hr winds) & was getting 5-7hrs of continuous spotlocking out of the 100amp LiFePO4s - you'd need 2 x 150/200 amp to get an equivalent performance .


    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  10. #10

    Re: Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

    I looked up these lithium ion batteries yesterday came across a web site which mentioned there voltage being 14.8v i think this is why minn kota wont hold responsibilty normal charging voltage is around 13.6v 13.8v with a engine running

    Now i donno how these electric motors work if they simply raise and lower the voltage for motor speed u could use the lithium ion just dont go full power or load as you'll be drawing the full voltage

    Now i have no idea as to how they work so no need to flame me

  11. #11

    Re: Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

    Most modern speed controllers use pulse width modulation these dsys Gazza. They apply a pulsed output at full voltage with variation of length of the pulse and the time between them determining the speed.

  12. #12

    Re: Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

    Ok so that is probably why the motors may burn out 2volts extra doesnt seem like a lot but it could be like adding a turbo to a corolla

    24v set up

  13. #13

    Re: Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by gazza2006au View Post
    I looked up these lithium ion batteries yesterday came across a web site which mentioned there voltage being 14.8v i think this is why minn kota wont hold responsibilty normal charging voltage is around 13.6v 13.8v with a engine running

    Now i donno how these electric motors work if they simply raise and lower the voltage for motor speed u could use the lithium ion just dont go full power or load as you'll be drawing the full voltage

    Now i have no idea as to how they work so no need to flame me
    I also suggest this is a surface charge, 13.1v is what I believe is what they stabilise at. Any equipment that won't hold that voltage would have to be defective.
    Also we are talking about Fe Po4, Lithium Iron Phosphate, sometimes marketed as Ion Phosphate . Chalk and Cheese.

  14. #14

    Re: Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

    I'm continuing to run on my LiFePO4 batteries without any issues - 80lb Minn Kota - I certainly appreciate the efficiency of these things - Depth of discharge , weight reduction & reduced charge time

    As for voltage - the stabilised level of charge is around 13.5 volts .

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  15. #15
    Ausfish Platinum Member
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    Mar 2015
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    Kalbarri, WA

    Re: Minn Kota and Lithium Ion batteries

    Thread resurrection time--doing some looking around on the subject of spot lockers. With a 6.4 m boat that weighs around 2 tonne in the water fuelled up, 2 POB, I'll be needing a 105lb, 72" job. Which will be 36V . I really can't fit 90kg of lead acid anywhere, which is what 3 x 105a/h lead acid will weigh. The boat is really well balanced. So that brings me back to some sort of Lithium chemistry--Minn Kota specifically recommends against fitting of Lithium batteries.
    15 months or so on from your last post, are your LiFEPo4 still going OK with your Minn Kota, NAGG?

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