1 July 2019 deadline - carb 2 strokes no longer to be sold - any good deals??

[Ah Me Ting]

I can't say reliability is better or worse with a carb 2 stroke over an EFI/HPDI in any brand, also can't say overall running cost are a black and white winner either way, there is nothing wrong with an "old school" 2 stroke, not that long ago, it's all we had, there is also no need to debate why you got yours, different motors suit different owners, boats and users.

Didn't you say you live within 10mins drive of dealers who sell different motors? If so, why not look into the 'total cost of ownership' of various motors. Select say a 40/50hp version and a 150hp version.

You may not want to debate my reasons, and I didn't post it to debate it. It is FACT. I'm just sharing knowledge for others to consider in THEIR buying decision as there is a lot of misinformation around about the old 2 strokes.

I agree, everyone has their own reasons. But, it does help making decisions based upon good information.

[ericcs]

Everyone does not want 4 strokes. 2 of my mates and I bought tinnies in the last 2 years. 2 x 4.5m and 1 x 4.2. We all ended up with 40hp Tohatsu carb 2 strokes. All.circa 2003 Excellent reliability. Start like a 4 stroke with key start push to choke. 1 x 20 litre tank does Brissy River to Tangas 40kph on a 4.5m, bit of running round, back to river, bit of mooching around there. Simple home servicing. Bullet proof. There is a lot to be said for a well.set up electric start 2 stroke. I won't be trading my motor any time soon.


Cheers


Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

same here, 5m/90 merc 2st. 07 can do Wellington pt. to Tangalooma on 30 odd litres return. Will be hanging onto mine for a while yet!

[Noelm]

Didn't you say you live within 10mins drive of dealers who sell different motors? If so, why not look into the 'total cost of ownership' of various motors. Select say a 40/50hp version and a 150hp version.

You may not want to debate my reasons, and I didn't post it to debate it. It is FACT. I'm just sharing knowledge for others to consider in THEIR buying decision as there is a lot of misinformation around about the old 2 strokes.

I agree, everyone has their own reasons. But, it does help making decisions based upon good information.

OK, please yourself, no problems from me on what you buy, or what you believe is fact, read and digest the last line in my post you quoted.

[stevej]

a carbed 2 stroke is not going to be cheaper to run then a fuel injected four stroke if thats what your implying
and is amplified with how many hours you do just because of the reduced fuel usage

[ozscott]

In a 10 year ownership span if the boat isn't used much the 4 stroke could cost more to own.

Cheers

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[stevej]

running costs isnt ownerships costs im not including the purchase cost as thats all based on whether you want new or happy with a older engine.
for a moderate user a fuel injected four is going to work out cheaper to run then a carb 2 stroke and from my experience i have found that to be true


i would not base what engine i bought on service costs as its nothing in the total cost of boat ownership

[ozscott]

I hear you mate. A lot of people do 30 hours a year or less some years. So the fuel savings are just not high. Also a well propped 2 stroke doing mostly planing runs doesn't chew much more than a 4 stroke especially A 4 stroke of the same grunt (so maybe 10%-20% bigger...in 40_60hp range. Based on my driving if I went 4 stroke I would go min 50hp compared to by 40hp 2 stroke).

I do factor in purchase costs cause that is part of running costs and there is a big difference between purchase cost which is all.part of it.

Cheers

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[stevej]

with modern injected four strokes the need for greater capacity isnt there as you can map and change fuel profiles right through the rev range, unlike older carb based units

just impossible to do comparisons as the variables at purchase are so great on the whole package.

all i know is as a younger bloke i mucked around with old stuff as that was all i could afford and even though i never got towed i always had some tools in the boat and would go some places out of fear of breaking down.
now i will save for that bit longer and get that new engine

only issue is as a younger bloke i had more time to go fishing

[Ah Me Ting]

Running cost alone is not 'total cost of ownership'.

As I keep saying, when making a buying decision it's good to look at the FACTS and check TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP.

A lot of BS and misinformation floating around which, until each person does their own total cost of ownership calculation will, unfortunately, continue.

Don't confuse FACTS.

Total cost of ownership is the the key is looking for an economical motor.

[stevej]

give us the facts then as you keep going on about them or your just adding to the bs floating around

theres two conversations going on here total cost and hourly running costs


heres a fact a modern four stroke will always hold a greater resale then your two stroke even more if its got a yamaha sticker on the side of it
but if you never plan to sell the boat the purchase price is irrelevant boats arnt investments, they bleed cash
you buy a engine based on needs and what you can afford

[Flex]

I can understand people being pro 2 stroke in very small HP range for weight . Above that the only reason you’d ever choose a 2 stroke over a 4 is you can’t afford the purchase price difference.

Beats me why you’d ever choose 2 over 4 for any other reason. 4 stroke so much user friendly, economical, better range for your boat(which is more valuable than people think) better for environment.

People never mention engine longevity of 4 v 2 strokes either. Don’t see many 2 strokes with 1000hours+ selling for much.
4 strokes on the market at same hp range are still worth heaps.
Not to mention the battery charging ability of 4 strokes are far superior.
I’d argue 4 strokes are more reliable these days as engine diagnostic immediately tells you the issue.
2 stroke stops and you can spend few hours fault finding.

If you service your own 2 stroke you can service your own 4 stroke so stuff all difference.

Probably piss people off by saying the above

Btw I own 2hp, 8hp and 50hp 2 strokes and they are good motors but I wish everyone was a 4

I then use my twin 150 4 strokes and think how nice they are to use ..



Sent from my iPhone using Ausfish forums

[billfisher]

I can understand people being pro 2 stroke in very small HP range for weight . Above that the only reason you’d ever choose a 2 stroke over a 4 is you can’t afford the purchase price difference.

Beats me why you’d ever choose 2 over 4 for any other reason. 4 stroke so much user friendly, economical, better range for your boat(which is more valuable than people think) better for environment.

People never mention engine longevity of 4 v 2 strokes either. Don’t see many 2 strokes with 1000hours+ selling for much.
4 strokes on the market at same hp range are still worth heaps.
Not to mention the battery charging ability of 4 strokes are far superior.
I’d argue 4 strokes are more reliable these days as engine diagnostic immediately tells you the issue.
2 stroke stops and you can spend few hours fault finding.

If you service your own 2 stroke you can service your own 4 stroke so stuff all difference.

Probably piss people off by saying the above

Btw I own 2hp, 8hp and 50hp 2 strokes and they are good motors but I wish everyone was a 4

I then use my twin 150 4 strokes and think how nice they are to use ..



Sent from my iPhone using Ausfish forums

You don't mention that if there is a major fault with a 4 stroke a rebuild is not worth the cost and you may as well buy another motor. Some of them have had terminal corrosion problems when they weren't that old. The power to weight advantage also applies to larger motors eg in the 90 hp size too (with older boats that were designed before the advent of 4 strokes).

The power to weight and price issues are not minor. Eg I got a second hand 2 stroke 90 hp that had only done 10 hrs for my old fiberglass boat for only $5,200. I would be looking at around 15K for a 90hp 4 stroke new (fitted) and there is some doubt as to if it would perform well on my boat.

[stevej]

New four strokes are as light as some of two strokes they replacing “in certain hp sizes”. So that argument is slowly becoming irrelevant

If a 2 stroke fails it’s normally a lean or no oil condition and is terminal anyway


everyone can come up with pros and cons supporting whichever point they are trying to support

The fact you Barely see any my engine exploded posts for either engine type means that’s also a irrelevant issue

I can’t recall the last engine failure post I’ve ever seen on any forum or fb page

[gazza2006au]

3 4 years ago i started a small business it was a registered business in my name i found it really hard to move a 8hp Yamaha 2 stroke 2001 for $450 where as the Honda 30,40, 45, 50hp models flew out the gates as quick as they came in the Honda's usually only lasted a few days at most and they were sold, Honda parts were flying out the window i was posting to FNQ, Darwin, WA i was posting parts all over Australia it was crazy but i closed the business down because i had no clue how to do the books i had my paper work in order but just didn't know how to use programs online for tax so i failed

i use to search ebay, gumtree, facebook i would search high and low, i have traveled to melbourne and queensland to pick up engines it was a very profitable business i would like to take it up again at a later date but i think i need some sort of training as not to get into shit with the tax man

[Ah Me Ting]

give us the facts then as you keep going on about them or your just adding to the bs floating around

theres two conversations going on here total cost and hourly running costs


heres a fact a modern four stroke will always hold a greater resale then your two stroke even more if its got a yamaha sticker on the side of it
but if you never plan to sell the boat the purchase price is irrelevant boats arnt investments, they bleed cash
you buy a engine based on needs and what you can afford

I can NOT give YOU or ANYONE else the FACTS for YOUR 'total cost of ownership' because your use, my use, and everyone else will be different. But, what I can tell you is 'total cost of ownership' is THE ONLY economic value that matters.

I agree, the BS here is around the 'running costs' with, most only discussing 'fuel use' ... Look at the cost of Oil too, then add in the cost of the motor, it's historical resale, the cost of servicing, and the 'likely' major items over a it's lifetime of use ... for YOUR situation.

Too BS fueled by marketing and dealers selling motors re 'running costs' and fuel efficiency.

I can tell you, I have seen 2 strokes using less, WAY less fuel than a 4 Stroke. FACT. And not 20 years ago, in the past 2-3 years ... the facts remain that TRUE fuel usage, side by side, comparison tests ARE NOT being completed and published. Hmmm, wonder why?

This discussion of 'total cost of ownership' is irrelevant of brand.

The buyers decision is whether they care, or want to, dig into the 'total cost of ownership'. Running costs, fuel economy is a only a part of the total cost of ownership. Add in the cost of oil, servicing, price of motor, resale, and major mechanical items that are likely over the lifetime and well, the TRUTH for will become obvious.

EDIT: ... PS: As for 'resale value', its the same argument with cars. You have to look at the $$$ decline, and when you do, the 4 stroke, will, YES have a higher resale value, heck, they HAVE to because they cost more to buy in the first place, but the $$ lost compared to a 2 stoke may well surprise a lot of you. Once you start to factor that into your buying decision you will get to a better understanding of your total cost of ownership (just remember to add in all this other costs too)

NOTE: One of the issues with 'total cost of ownership' is pulling out the REAL resale value of motors. With many resales, and new purchases too, included with a BMT packages, getting secondhand values is hard for motor alone, but can be achieved with some research through dealers, gumtree, ebay etc. It does take time, and you need to look at model by model, Hp vs Hp etc.