Reply With QuoteBuy a short block from the USA and swap it out, with brothers assistance. 25 k for a rebuild is not value for money.
Mercury do remanufactured long blocks too.
I've been lurking and reading for a while now but wanted to run what I *think* I have learnt past the experts before I sink any cash - just to make sure I haven't missed any big expenses etc.
I own a Bayliner (2002 2455) which needs a new engine. Two mechanics have quoted me different figures, one around $25k for a rebuild of my existing Mercruiser 5.0 and one for around $30k for a new engine (no leg). Everything on the engine is fine (alternator, fuel pump etc).
The mechanic who inspected it (and suggest a rebuild) won't provide me with a parts list or diagnostics (even though I paid over $1,000 for the diagnostics alone)... Two cylinders have nil compression. The mechanic who quoted a new engine did not inspect it. I've not got a huge deal of confident
Whilst I'd pay those prices to get it running again they seemed high to me. I've very little mechanical experience but my brother is an automotive mechanic so he'll be assisting me with the project. My Dad has been on boats his entire life and did his own engine maintenance so he is a second backup.
I need to get on my boat to get the serial to ensure it is a direct swap but I believe this should be (for now just assume it is unless you know for certain it isn't):
https://bit.ly/2VAW7n2
I like this because all of the "marine" work has been done for me already. I'm slightly concerned about the Carb as I'm young and have never used anything with a Carb before but I figure if I find it that annoying I can get a TBI kit for ~$1,500 USD and convert it.
The exhaust manifold and risers need replacing, not really sure what kit suits yet but I figure if I budget around $2,000 I shan't be in for a nasty surprise re cost.
I kind of want to do this myself with my brother just so by the end of it I have a better understanding of a marine engine and failure points etc if anything goes wrong. The savings aren't really a huge benefit as they'll likely go on purchasing a trailer though I guess I could do the work at the boat yard.
I can't see any other major expenses I'll have given everything else works. Anything obvious I've missed? Anything we need to consider? I am 99% sure the stern drive is fine but if it ain't I'll buy a new one.
Buy a short block from the USA and swap it out, with brothers assistance. 25 k for a rebuild is not value for money.
Mercury do remanufactured long blocks too.
My brother actually asked me specifically what was going wrong and why I needed a new engine and he now has his doubts. He suspects the mechanic might be taking me for a ride.
I won't name the mechanic as I've been sued previously for defamation until I know what is going on but the boat was exhibiting no symptoms of trouble - I literally took it in to have it checked over for safety as I had only owned it for about 4 months. I was charged $1050 and told the exhaust manifold and risers needed replacing (I knew this). He then told me that two cylinders had full compression when the key was turned but said the compression dropped once running. This didn't seem odd to me as I didn't even know how you do a compression test.
Even though I said I'd pay 25k, tbh, I'd likely sell the boat as scrap and buy a new one. 25k for a brand spanking new engine would be acceptable but not a rebuild.
He's going to come over on thurs and we'll do our own compression tests etc and put everything back together somewhat.
Mate for 25k there are better options out there.
Firstly are you opposed to diesel? You sound like you are willing to do a little bit of work.
there is a bloke on the “Old School Shark Cats” page on Face Book selling two Volvo Penta 290HP Diesels that have had a bunch of work carried out including new turbos two years back. He’s asking for 14.5k for both including controls. (he’s going to outboards on his shark cat). If you went down this path you’d even have a spare donk just sitting in the shed with a leg ready to go if one blew up down the track. He may even split them or you could onsell one of the engines and reduce your costs even further.
No way on earth I’d be spending 25k on an inboard petrol when something like that’s available.
Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.
Disregard. A post down lower shows they are 150hp engines not 290. But I would still be looking for something similar.
Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.
Yeah mate - I'm prepared to do work. Not really opposed to anything so something like you suggested isn't a bad idea. I'll look into it pending our inspection tomorrow.
Ultimately my goal is reliability. I've got 2 kids and already got stuck on the ocean side of the bar between Moreton and Stradbroke Island requiring towing from rescue. Previous owner assured me the fuel gauge worked. I was naive and trusted him. Ran out of fuel half way home. Lesson learnt - trust no one.
As long as it is reliable I'm happy. The benefit of doing as much work myself as possible means I can inspect it and detect anything going wrong before it goes wrong a little better as right now I know almost nothing about the engine in the boat other than it goes vroom.
happiest day of my boating life was when I swapped the mercruiser out for an outboard...but thats not an option in your case....
Your brother is an automotive mechanic, that engine is an "automotive" engine in a boat, at the very minimum I would be getting him to do some simple checks, do the compression yourself, pull the heads, or use a scope through a plug hole to at least inspect possible problems.
I had a similar issue on my 26ft'er which had a 496MAG HO (8L) mercuriser in it, one of the cylinders didn't have any compression the rest were fine, the most likely cause was a stuck valve. I didn't however have the money or the time to get it fixed, nor the inclination either as I had just replaced the manifolds a few months earlier, then had to clean the injectors etc. etc. Almost every time I went out in that boat there were some expensive issues with that motor so since then Mercruiser's have left a bad taste in my mouth.
Instead of putting in another $25K for a reconditioned block I would be more inclined to get a pod built and fitted, and put on a couple of newish 150HP outboards or a single 250HP+ outboard. It would also give you more room in the back as well, plus you could sell off the stern drive leg to help with the costs. Just a suggestion to consider.
Forgot to mention, If it is stuck valves, you may be able to take the plugs out and the rocker covers off and manually turn the block and see if the all the valves open and close. If you have to replace the manifolds/risers etc, chances are that water had leaked from the corroded manifolds and dripped on the valves and may have rusted them open. That is what I suspected happened to mine as I had to replace the manifolds earlier due to them leaking. Apparently both the manifolds need to be replaced about every 5 years and they are considered a necessary replaceable part, I think I paid about $2.5K for mine to be replaced.
Since your boat is a 2002 model you would have to weigh up how much money you want to keep throwing at it. Before my 26ft I had a 22ft scarab with a 2005 225HP Evinrude outboard and that did just over 40Knots since yours is a Bayliner and longer, it will be heavier so maybe a couple of 150's or 250HP would still get you up to the same speed, and 40Kts is still plenty fast.
We fitted these stainless steel manifold to my friends Bayliner and having seen these units why would you use anything else?
If you have to pull the old ones off do what EdBerg said to get a better handle on the extent of you problem before any thing else IMHO
http://www.hitekmarine.com.au/hi-tek.htm
What could go wrong.......................
Have your brother run another compression test. Simple task. Then either pull out the existing engine and rebuild it or purchase a crate motor. Eagle Auto Parts do crate V8's. 330hp. They have an office at Slacks Creek. Iv'e installed a number of crate motors and they are a good alternatives and are essentially the same as the Mercruiser engine. Both are a GM 5.7ltr V8. I haven't price checked a crate motor for a while but around $4500 sounds about right. No problem running a carby engine by the way.
The "vanishing compression" is impossible. Also I would like to know how he compression tested it while it was running. Can't screw the comp gauge in if the spark plug is there whilst running...... And $1050! Wow. I charge $400 for an inspection of that sort of rig.
We did a compression test and I still have NFI what he was talking about with the compression issue (disappearing).
We did have low compression on two cylinders but they were not adjacent cylinders. We liaised with a boat mechanic (friend of my brother) via phone and he is pretty sure the engine isn't dead given it had no symptoms when I took it in. They both agreed that if both cylinders were dead I'd have noticed a very obvious reduction in performance. They both suspect the issue I had starting it was just because it is a carbie engine (this will show how much of a mechanical noob I am).
The boat mechanic friend then requested we run the boat and check for issues then retest the compression. Unfortunately that meant we had to spend 3 hours putting the engine back together. We then discovered they had thrown the belt away and no one has a replacement in stock so we have ordered one in and will do further testing on Friday. I think he said the valves might be sticky/stuck. We didn't do any inspection of anything yet as per our mates direction to just run it first.
Putting the drive back on also looks like it'll be a right pain in the ass. I'll likely pay the boat mechanic friend to do that. There is a container with a shit ton of little bolts, washers and other assorted bits and pieces and I have zero interest in trying to sort that mess out.
BM: I then had to pay $140 to make it water tight. When I asked to make it water tight what I was asking was to put the drive/leg/whatever we call it back onto the boat... I actually have no idea why it was even off considering I only asked for the engine to be inspected but they charged me $140 to put some plastic over the hole and put a clamp over it...
Sounds like you encountered a land based shark. To clarify, for $400 I would not have been pulling the engine apart. It's a great tactic I guess. When it's apart you as the owner are quite screwed and at the repairers mercy. Seen it many times.
When you say 2 cylinders are low, how low? What are the compression numbers overall? Sometimes when a boat sits the valves can get a touch non sealing and then a comp test shows bad comps. A decent run and a re-test often re-seats things and the comps come back up.
Given the engine already seems to be apart in some measure I would simply whip off the heads and get them pressure tested and re-surfaced. This will also give you a look at the pistons and cylinder walls. I'm assuming the engine was in decent running order before the inspection? Did it have good oil pressure?
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