new boat , things to do

[stevej]

With all the bells and whistles
Bow mount battteries
Front livewell
50l underfloor fuel tank

I’d say distribution is spot on

[Andy56]

After so many mods wouldn’t you just request a refund and buy a different boat?

the thougfht did occur to me. This is the last stab at it. I think it will be ok now. First opportunity and i will be out.

Stevej , just becuase they sell a lot doesnt mean there are no issues. Just about every second one has a nose in the air issue or maybe you think its a non issue? the forums are full of people who have the same issues.
Sure if i give it stick, it gets on the plane fast enough now but thats not the issue. I have had tinnies before and thats not a good explanation - its just a tinnie.

Anyway, all shall be revealed when i go out again.

[stevej]

Please link all the peoples posts complaining because I’ve only ever seen you go to the extent you have
There should be thousands as the renegades and outlaws are popular cheap tinnies

And I’m not defending myself and my purchase

What do you want explained ?
A flat bottom at the rear tinny requires some oomph to get it over the hump past the suction affect ?

People fit foils as bandaids for underpowered, bum heavy or overloaded boats

And I think your boat is bum heavy and only gojng off specs that etec doesn’t compare to a Yamaha four stroke in grunt at low revs

What did the dealer ever say about your concerns

[scottar]

Warranty - not a chance. There is nothing wrong with the boat IMO. Andy is simply trying to alleviate a normal handling trait that is an incovenience to him due to having a usage pattern outside of what could be classed as typical for a small aluminium boat. The E-Tec may contribute to having to get on and off the gas - anyone who has spent any time around boats with 2 stroke engines knows only too well their tendency to punch a boat on plane but then have the revs run away to varying extents and require throttling back. E-Tec's don't do this to the same extent as a carby two stroke (and the G2's from my limited use don't do it at all) but they still do it. Comparing the E-Tec to the Yamaha - yes, the Yamaha will be happier running around wit the boat not quite on the plane due to the way 4 strokes develop torque and don't tend to run away but at the end of the day, with everything being equal weight distribution wise ( there is so little weight difference between them) the speed at which the hulls would be on a clean plane (not with an elevated bow) would be the same. The speed at which both engines are in their "happy place" though will be different IMO. Andy's boat is not bum heavy (unless he has a big stash of sinkers he's not telling us about) or under powered and as for foils being band aids - opinions vary. I see them as a cost effective option of inducing a handling trait that for some usage patterns is a very much desirable effect. Some don't need them - great - these are owners who are either happier to run at speed and cop the extra forces that doing this entails, slow right down, run with their bow up or they never boat in truly rough open water.

Devices like foils will have varying degrees of user uptake dependant on geographical location. Up here in the Moreton Bay region - you see plenty of them because of the likelihood of magic morning conditions on an open body of water turning to absolute shite later in the day - not dissimilar to Andy's location - trust me when I tell you the bloke that can plane slower is going to have a much more fuel efficient and comfortable ride home than the guy that can't. Running around with your nose in the air isn't the answer - your hull isn't working properly. Getting the bow down at lower than "normal" speeds is what you want. Short of massive amounts of negative trim I don't know of too many easy ways to do this apart from tabs or a foil. We have fun fixed foils on boats right down to a re-rated 3.9 barra punt - it ran a 40hp two banger and was as flighty as hell without them and a right pig to drive in the rough - with them it would pull a smidge over 35knots fully loaded and was a stack of fun on any water that could be considered "normal" for a boat this size and type. Even on bigger boats the difference is massive - I had a day when a faulty fuse holder meant no tabs on my rig when I had removed the foil for testing - it had me bitching and complaining like you wouldn't believe - the foil went straight back on the next day. IMO, Andy is going to be amazed at the difference this last simple modification will make to his boat - it may require a bit of tweaking but I am pretty confident he is going to very close to achieving what he is after.

[stevej]

Bum heavy as in nothing up front

Am unsure if he still has sand bags up the front

He hasn’t mentioned a electric and batteries or Front live well option and is using a tote tank down the back

The optioned up versions carry 50kg of fuel plus the tank midship

A battery and electric is 40odd kilos in the nose

Add the driver sitting behind the console that puts most of the weight aft of midships

So the diff between his and A boat with all of that
50kg fuel
50kg of water in the live well
And then roughly 40kg of battery and electric up front
140kg makes a huge difference to how it performs

The jacking plate and trim tabs or foil cost would have gone a fair way to buying the live bait tank option or a underflow fuel tank “$1000 each roughly from quintrex”

the 50hp yamahas a 4 cylinder 996cc at 110kg
the etec 50 is a 2 cyclinder 863cc at 113kg

Andy’s only getting 40kph I get 48-52 Kph depending on conditions
I still think something ain’t right with the etec or it’s setup it should get similar speeds

I made a typo In a Earlier post and said 58 which is incorrect

There is nothing wrong bad dangerous abnormal or unusual about have to give a boat some revs to get it planning, everyone has to do it,

[scottar]

Didn't mean in direct comparrison Steve - just in general. There would be hundreds, if not thousands of similar rigs without the extras so more or less the same as Andy's. I missed the 40Kph WOT - if indeed that is the case there is an issue as my 4.5 did 39 (21 knots) with a 40Hp heavily loaded.

Quick breeze through and one thing that does stand out is a post on reaching 6000 rpm very easily. Optimum RPM for the 50 as best I can find is 5750. Andy - have you done a WOT test to check you are not underpropped? It would explain higher than "normal" revs required to reach and maintain plane. It would also explain a low top end speed.

[stevej]

I remember with dread trolling with a sold carb two stroke in swell

Not meaning to take the piss out of the bloke just you have done a lot to this boat that seems to be fixing a fault that shouldn’t be there

To say most do it is just untrue

[Andy56]

Please link all the peoples posts complaining because I’ve only ever seen you go to the extent you have
There should be thousands as the renegades and outlaws are popular cheap tinnies

And I’m not defending myself and my purchase

What do you want explained ?
A flat bottom at the rear tinny requires some oomph to get it over the hump past the suction affect ?

People fit foils as bandaids for underpowered, bum heavy or overloaded boats

And I think your boat is bum heavy and only gojng off specs that etec doesn’t compare to a Yamaha four stroke in grunt at low revs

What did the dealer ever say about your concerns

well for a start its not a flat bottom at the rear tinnie. The 50 etec has more than enough oomph to get over the hump. Its definetly not underpowered. And your comparison with a 4 stroke is delusional, hahahaha. But hey, your entitled to it. At least I have owned both. Bum heavy? possibly but its well within specs.
What did the dealer say? on my first visit, the motor is too high. #### me, the cav plate was a good 4" underwater on the plane, the steering was diabolically heavy and it looked like i was shooting for the stars.
At WOT in calm water, the boat does what its supposed to, any other scenario its not.

[Andy56]

hold on now Stevej, now your making a few assertions here.

25kg fuel tank, moved forward.
10kg spare tank moved forward
60kg sand bags still sitting under fuel tanks.
i have been out most times with a mate who weights 80kg and he sits on the seat UP FORWARD

sure it makes a difference, but it also still attacks the chop with the nose in the air which forces me to drop the throttle so we dont lose our teeth , then back on the throttle to get the bow down for the next attack. So to me, just altering the center of balance helped but isnt the solution. Oh i see, i should have put 200kg up front........

[Andy56]

i think you need to update your memory files, an etec isnt a 2 stroke carbie wonder. The only similarity is 2 stroke., the rest is pretty high tech, just like your 4 strokes.
i have been on the quintrex forums and a few others, the issue of bow in the air is very prominent.

And i dont know where you got the 40km/hr at WOT. I see 30m/hr at 5500 with plenty of stick left. ( thats not the Pitot reading, GPS) thats 48km/hr. I would say 50 is on the cards at 6000rpm, lol.

as i said before , on calm water it does what its suppose to do, add chop and it doesnt.

[Andy56]

Scottar
Look as to the engine running away, i have had that experience before but its not really a motor fault. Its just that the torque curve sits sque-iff of the boat speed. I countered that issue on my signature by going to a 4 blade prop . As if by magic the problem disappeared. The extra grip of the blades tamed the torque nicely.
So i know what your on about, but thats not the issue here. . What your describing comes on slowly. Its just too dramatic an action

[stevej]

No need to take it personal

Got a link to said quintrex forums ?

There’s been so many replies it’s hard to keep track off what your done and assumptions on how you load the boat of what information you neglect to give

Owning both you understand how a four stroke and two stroke work even a direct injection one

Four strokes hold revs really nice don’t know how saying that’s delusional

Even direct injection two strokes have a power curve that’s different to a four stroke still having tourqe peaking higher in the rev range

The comment on the old carbed engine and surging while low speed trolling off shore was in reply to Scottars comment

You have a hull, engine, how the engines fitted and how the hulls loaded. That’s it
Somethings out of whack from those options if you think there’s a fault still

[stevej]

Just going off what you posted reguarding speeds and revs on the first or second page
Hence questioning the engine


I just finished a week at Narooma Fishing the Inlet on my own
Quick squirt on the plane would hold it down to 2800-3000 rpm then drop off
No nose in the sky stuff

Two fellas today had bigger renegades 460 and a 440 and they went outside snapper fishing.
I asked them if they had issues and said no

Narooma is a nasty bar braver men then me

[Andy56]

ok, things have progressed some what Stevej.

my next outing should provide a few answers.

And Stevej, i dont take it personal. Its all great banter. And dont think i havent payed attention to what people have suggested. I too have questioned what i observe and how to correct it many times.

Still its 1/ motor height 2/ wieght distribution 3/ [prop 4/ whats left, hahah foil/trim tabs

[Andy56]

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