Lithium Batteries (deep cycle)

[NAGG]

Hi all

I'm looking at ways of making life easier for those off the grid type situations ( boat based camping etc) & one area I'm considering is upgrading my Batteries to Lithium (LiFePO4) Initially for my 24 vlt Minn Kota ( 2 x 100amp - 12 vlt) & eventually the house battery (75/80amp) .... as much as anything this will pull out 40+ kgs of weight.

So aside from the weight loss - I should be able to draw down to much lower levels ( if necessary ) charge quicker either via a generator or solar . ( my understanding is that you can pump in a full amps till 98% rather than 80% like the AGMs)

I'm interested in hearing members experiences - the good & the bad ( yes I've heard the horror stories) but I believe the technology has improved with batteries with built in BMS (Battery management systems) .
Is anyone using solar to charge LiFePO4s .... what is the best system - I'm thinking of putting flexible solar panels on my T Top and running a Roman 15amp inline Solar controller
What chargers are people using ?

Lastly brands - there are two standouts Sentry & Fusion .... but you pay for it - what are some of the other reputable ones ..... it's a big investment .

Lot's of questions I know but as I mentioned it's a big investment & I want to get it right.

[Andy56]

Hi all

I'm looking at ways of making life easier for those off the grid type situations ( boat based camping etc) & one area I'm considering is upgrading my Batteries to Lithium (LiFePO4) Initially for my 24 vlt Minn Kota ( 2 x 100amp - 12 vlt) & eventually the house battery (75/80amp) .... as much as anything this will pull out 40+ kgs of weight.

So aside from the weight loss - I should be able to draw down to much lower levels ( if necessary ) charge quicker either via a generator or solar . ( my understanding is that you can pump in a full amps till 98% rather than 80% like the AGMs)

I'm interested in hearing members experiences - the good & the bad ( yes I've heard the horror stories) but I believe the technology has improved with batteries with built in BMS (Battery management systems) .
Is anyone using solar to charge LiFePO4s .... what is the best system - I'm thinking of putting flexible solar panels on my T Top and running a Roman 15amp inline Solar controller
What chargers are people using ?

Lastly brands - there are two standouts Sentry & Fusion .... but you pay for it - what are some of the other reputable ones ..... it's a big investment .

Lot's of questions I know but as I mentioned it's a big investment & I want to get it right.

My concern wouldnt be whether they do the job but rather will they survive the shake rattle and roll on a boat. I had a quick google and i wasnt getting any useful info.
The only killer for lithium batteries is the heat management. Electric Car batteries are certainly a long way from just buy off the shelf stuff. ( think climate control). I personally would be weary of such large off the shelf lithium batteries. In a controlled environment, they are absolutely magic, on a boat? Not so sure.

[NAGG]

My concern wouldnt be whether they do the job but rather will they survive the shake rattle and roll on a boat. I had a quick google and i wasnt getting any useful info.
The only killer for lithium batteries is the heat management. Electric Car batteries are certainly a long way from just buy off the shelf stuff. ( think climate control). I personally would be weary of such large off the shelf lithium batteries. In a controlled environment, they are absolutely magic, on a boat? Not so sure.

This is where the brand of battery come into it ....... The better ones are actually designed for more rugged applications like boating & 4WD with BMS that monitor charge , discharge , temp etc ....... With temperature apparently it's cold conditions that are the concern ( charging in freezing conditions) .
So ..... I could choose a Sentry at $1800 / battery & would have no concern ..... a Fusion at $1200 ( I know they are good batteries - but it is a big difference) ....... Then there are generics at $800-$1000 which could be dubious .

Chris

[Andy56]

This is where the brand of battery come into it ....... The better ones are actually designed for more rugged applications like boating & 4WD with BMS that monitor charge , discharge , temp etc ....... With temperature apparently it's cold conditions that are the concern ( charging in freezing conditions) .
So ..... I could choose a Sentry at $1800 / battery & would have no concern ..... a Fusion at $1200 ( I know they are good batteries - but it is a big difference) ....... Then there are generics at $800-$1000 which could be dubious .

Chris

at those prices, i just wouldnt bother.
Be interesting what other info does turn up. Sticker shock has killed my financial interest, lol.

[NAGG]

at those prices, i just wouldnt bother.
Be interesting what other info does turn up. Sticker shock has killed my financial interest, lol.

Dont worry ..... those prices still shock me
But I'm weighing up the advantages when away camping / boating. ..... 2 leccy batteries & a camp battery which will need daily charging .

Chris

[gazza2006au]

NAG lithium technology has been around a while i have been using it in my radio toys for around 20 years it is advancing so bloody fast but i something goes wrong it really goes wrong

i have only played with lithium ion and polymer not actual Lifepo's but if one shorts out your really in the deep end and what happens if something electronically fails and u over charge? would u really want to risk your whole rig? would insurance still cover you?

risky... i would stick to basic's, i love modern technology but some things should be let alone

i have crashed radio control planes at 250kph dead set strait into the ground with lithium polymer batteries that haven't exploded or caught on fire but i was absolutely shitting my pants taking them home safely in the car, all thought we use them a lot in every day to day activities they are a dangerous product

[gazza2006au]

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...o+battery+fire

[tunaticer]

Chris, investigate the shut off voltage for the batteries you intend to use.
I have a 20amp Fusion battery that has a shut off of 11.3 volts, as soon as it reaches that it shuts down until recharged.
Apart from that I have no problems with the battery.

At least with AGM and wet cells you can draw down much further if need be.

[Andy56]

Chris, investigate the shut off voltage for the batteries you intend to use.
I have a 20amp Fusion battery that has a shut off of 11.3 volts, as soon as it reaches that it shuts down until recharged.
Apart from that I have no problems with the battery.

At least with AGM and wet cells you can draw down much further if need be.

As I said, in an electric car, they are managed to an ipteenth of their life. Out in the open, i am not sure you can . Heat is still a killer. Dendrite formation is still an issue even if new breakthroughs happen every week. I just dont see any advantage at those price points. Dont get me wrong, i think its got possibilities but.........In this day and age, technology isnt fully tested before going to market. Dont be the bunny doing the research for them.

[NAGG]

Chris, investigate the shut off voltage for the batteries you intend to use.
I have a 20amp Fusion battery that has a shut off of 11.3 volts, as soon as it reaches that it shuts down until recharged.
Apart from that I have no problems with the battery.

At least with AGM and wet cells you can draw down much further if need be.

That sounds about right .....

I'm not particularly fussed with being able to run a battery to death ..... specially on running a leccy. That said being able to run a a battery to 80% DOD & still have a life of 3500 cycles is awesome - You'd kill an AGM in a few hundred cycles . Plus the AGM you really need to bring it back up to full charge (6-8 hrs charging)

Chris

[The Mad Cat]

Hi Nagg,
I have just fitted lithium batteries to run the 24v Minn Kota. I went with 8 individual cells which ended up a lot easier to fit, 100 amps @ 24v and only 26kg. I tried EV Power in WA but they would not talk to me when I rang, the lady said I must email my questions. I really wanted to talk to someone as I was not sure I was on the right track. I didn't bother to email I rang EV Works also in WA and spoke to Tim Brunner for about 20 minutes and guess what placed an order for the batteries from him. I have spoken to him several times since and he has advised on a Battery monitor and other stuff which he was not selling, he just wanted me to get the right gear. I don't have an opinion yet on how they perform as fishing trips have been a bit of a rarity lately.
https://www.evworks.com.au

TMC

[Gon Fishun]

What about batteries out of a mobility scooter? I run 2 in the tinny, 1 for motor the other for accessories and use a smart charger . Works ok where I can do the basics, but I'm hopeless when it comes to electronics. Cheers.

[stevet]

Hi all

here is a tread from 'The Hull Truth" on building lithium batteries
https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating...=#post11164340

I am looking into purchasing some of the cells -I have been quoted 6 cells for US$180 - I would love to buy 12 cells enough for 2 batteries - if I could find a way to get them shipped by sea to OZ

Anyone interested in a group buy?

Stevet

[myusernam]

from what i've read allthough they cost more they are already more economical than AGM's due to their lifespan.
definatley the way to go in the future for large banks when costs come down

[Lovey80]

Hi all

here is a tread from 'The Hull Truth" on building lithium batteries
https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating...=#post11164340

I am looking into purchasing some of the cells -I have been quoted 6 cells for US$180 - I would love to buy 12 cells enough for 2 batteries - if I could find a way to get them shipped by sea to OZ

Anyone interested in a group buy?

Stevet

they are talking the relatively new LTO lithium technology. Less energy dense than the LifePO4 but much safer again in a boating application and many more life cycles. If you were using your boat a lot and or knew you were keeping your current boat for a very long time they look economically viable.