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  1. #1

    Cycone mumblings

    These are the 2 things that stand out for me

    1. Marina's. This should not come as much of a surprise to most but a Marina is not the best place to have your boat, too much red tape, too much Marina control of what you can and can't do with your own vessel, having to deal with the attack from other vessels that are poorly prepared and all this comes with absolutely no guarantee, all care no responsibility from the marina owner. Within the cyclone belt there would not be one marina that could be deemed a "safe haven" and secure cyclone anchorage. There are probably only a couple of inlets in the Whitsunday group that might be classed as a cyclone anchorage where one is at the mercy of their own preparedness and capability without all the unaccountable owners. Vessels have ridden out 100 knots for many hours and survived well but a little battered, this I do know.

    2. This "Open for business" syndrome that appears to be getting worse. One can see there will need to be some changes and it will probably take litigation following Debbie that might bring this one on, sooner than latter. It is simply unacceptable to be accepting guests into resorts, booking them in and then saying all ferries have now been cancelled and the last opportunity to leave the island was on the ferry that just brought you here and it just left 30 minutes ago. Cyclone evacuation plans should be designed for before the event not after, not that I can say the after evacuation plan was handled very well at all either. This type of stuff can not be left to the 13th hour but there appears to be more importance put on the mighty $$. I say bring this one on.

  2. #2

    Re: Cycone mumblings

    In the Whitsunday region a marina is the only insurable "safe haven". A vessel on a mooring cannot be insured. No vessel is allowed into a marina, without insurance. Pretty straight forward really. All damage to all and any vessel, within a marina, has cover from both the vessels insurance, any damage caused by or to another vessel, and any damage which results from a defect within the marina itself. It becomes an issue for competing insurance companies, but not the actual vessel owners problem. If you are in a marina, even if it is not ultimately completely safe, it is insured. Any vessels at anchor, on moorings or up sh!t creek are not insured, nor are they insured for any damage they cause to other vessels. Cruising yachts, which have an overall roving cover, have to leave NQ during the cyclone season or their insurance is void. When the cyclone hit here last week there were about 500 boats in marinas. Most suffered some level of damage, from simple cosmetics like clears and canopies to more serious like dismasting. and some were sunk. There were about 20 boats on moorings out front Monday night. All were destroyed. Some will have gone to Tramble Bay creeks and woodcutters bay and bluff bay. None of these creeks are capable of taking a vessel with a draft of more than 2 meters. Judging by Shute this morning it looks like about 50 boats were lost and about 20 survived. Wether these were on moorings or up in tramble or woodcutters creeks I am unsure.

    As to each islands cyclone plans, having been a GM on 2 Whitsunday islands and 2 cairns islands over the years the plans are extensive, well considered and have patron safety in mind and the logistics are taken into consideration. I have also been a regional councillor. The very thought that you could evacuate Hamilton island, to Airlie beach is absurd. A square peg in a round hole. There is no way the town could cope with the numbers and it is far safer to stay on Hamilton, with the capacity to be airlifted off after if it can't be done before, than to try to get them to the mainland. Hamilton Island airport is flood proof. Proserpine airport was down for 4 days and the roads north and south cut for 2 and 3 respectively.

    Mate, stick to fishing advice hey!

  3. #3

    Re: Cycone mumblings

    1 - what fishing advice?
    2 - see 1

  4. #4

    Re: Cycone mumblings

    In the Whitsunday region a marina is the only insurable "safe haven"
    Insurance requirements are nothing new for anything in a marina, which well applies to any Marina really but it's interesting the slant APM put on this one themselves re "safe haven" "Abell Point Marina is a place of shelter and cannot be guaranteed to be a place of safe haven" which is stated in their own Responsibility and Safety spiel

  5. #5

    Re: Cycone mumblings

    Very well put together reply above kc except for the last sentence, "MATE" why would you use that name on him?

  6. #6

    Re: Cycone mumblings

    Quote Originally Posted by SatNav View Post

    2. This "Open for business" syndrome that appears to be getting worse. One can see there will need to be some changes and it will probably take litigation following Debbie that might bring this one on, sooner than latter. It is simply unacceptable to be accepting guests into resorts, booking them in and then saying all ferries have now been cancelled and the last opportunity to leave the island was on the ferry that just brought you here and it just left 30 minutes ago. Cyclone evacuation plans should be designed for before the event not after, not that I can say the after evacuation plan was handled very well at all either. This type of stuff can not be left to the 13th hour but there appears to be more importance put on the mighty $$. I say bring this one on.
    Ive managed a few Qld resorts and been there during natural disasters. All major resorts warn guests of the weather when we are within a few days of a foreseeable event. Nobody gets on a ferry only to be told at the check in desk that the last ferrry was the one you came on, because all ferry operators warn guests at departure that 'this could be a very bumpy ride, and we might have to cancel future ferries it gets any worse'. All guests who travel within days of a cyclone know what is coming, and make thier decision accordingly. The real problem is with the long stay guests who were at the resort before the cyclone became news, and they might have a week to go on thier stay, and have to make a decision to leave early or ride it out. Once an event hits, all we can do is make the guests stay as comfortable as possible, and invoke the standard safety plans which have already been well thought out. You cannot evacuate people by boat or plane if it is unsafe to do so, so there is no evacuation plan possible for some resorts. Even the mainland resorts at Airlie Beach would have nowhere to send guests if the Bruce Hwy was cutoff. It is the guests decision as to whether he leaves early from his paid stay while the roads are open, or whether he chooses to stay at the resort and accept the risks. As for the money, well most resort units are sold off individually under a strata plan, and we are managing units for 150 different unit owners, and the money goes into a Trust Account , so we cannot issue refunds by law covering Trust Accounts. However we did issue credits for guests to come back and stay again anytime within the next 12 months, which is above and beyond what we are required to do by law.

    Just how would you suggest we evacuate people from an island? By submarine?
    Fishing- It's only an addiction if you're trying to quit.

  7. #7

    Re: Cycone mumblings

    I think the general gist of point 2 was that, much the same as in a major project situation, a cyclone plan is put in place to ensure that no guests are put in such a position. The last project I worked on used a 600km radius as a start point for demobilization. Once preparations were done - vessels dead shipped and secured on cyclone moorings, we were held on site until the system reached a secondary radius that was the trigger for evacuation. The big issue of course when dealing with both the paying public and private business is finding that happy medium of how, when and who pays for what - probably an impossible situation in reality.
    "I soak the worms in rum. The fish love em and the worms die happy"
    "Alcohol is not the solution to your problems...................but then again, neither is milk"

  8. #8

    Re: Cycone mumblings

    Yep. Well written both of you. Comes back to a point I made earlier about shutting your mouth and have everyone think your a fool or opening it and confirming that you are. Best to restrict one's posts to things you actually know something about in cases like this. Cyclones, maritime safety and evacuation plans for islands and local community is something I actually have a few runs on the board with. "Old mate" is only opening his mouth to change feet. Which ones were you on gecho? We might have crossed paths.

  9. #9

    Re: Cycone mumblings

    1. At least one thing can be certain an opinion cannot be wrong, just different than others.

    2. Possibly needs some more open minds, new thinking even some modern day JSA approach and perhaps throw in a few real ICAM's after the events and actually see what falls out. Obviously there needs some new lateral thinking as stuck in the mud views will simply stay stuck in the mud, maybe some like it that way

  10. #10

    Re: Cycone mumblings

    Quote Originally Posted by kc View Post
    Yep. Well written both of you. Comes back to a point I made earlier about shutting your mouth and have everyone think your a fool or opening it and confirming that you are. Best to restrict one's posts to things you actually know something about in cases like this. Cyclones, maritime safety and evacuation plans for islands and local community is something I actually have a few runs on the board with. "Old mate" is only opening his mouth to change feet. Which ones were you on gecho? We might have crossed paths.
    I was GM at both Peppers and Ramada Hervey Bay for a while. My mates ran Peppers at Airlie Beach, Port Douglas and Magnetic Island during cyclones, I saw the aftermath. We just had to deal with guests who were flooded in at Hervey Bay when the Bruce hwy was cut. Nothing too major, but the guests tantrums over refunds or extension bookings were the same. Even 2 days before a cyclone, a resort doesnt really know if a cyclone will hit it or veer away to somewhere else. A guest has every right to turn up and enjoy his pre paid booking if he chooses to take the risk that bad weather might infringe on his enjoyment. All we can do is look after them as best we can, and have a generous refund/return stay free next time policy.
    Fishing- It's only an addiction if you're trying to quit.

  11. #11

    Re: Cycone mumblings

    Quote Originally Posted by SatNav View Post
    1. At least one thing can be certain an opinion cannot be wrong, just different than others.

    2. Possibly needs some more open minds, new thinking even some modern day JSA approach and perhaps throw in a few real ICAM's after the events and actually see what falls out. Obviously there needs some new lateral thinking as stuck in the mud views will simply stay stuck in the mud, maybe some like it that way
    Thats a pretty vague response. It says nothing. Its not like you to be lost for words. Im actually interested in what you have to say about how the tourist industry could change in regard to major weather events. You might have something to contribute, so please go ahead and tell me, constructively, what changes you would make if you were in charge of the tourist industry?

    You raised the subject, the floor is all yours.....
    Fishing- It's only an addiction if you're trying to quit.

  12. #12

    Re: Cycone mumblings

    An opinion most certainly can be wrong. An opinion based on a lack of knowledge, steeped in ignorance and shrouded in arrogance should not be accepted because "everyone has a right to an opinion". If the assumptions an opinion is based on are wrong then so too is the opinion. If someone is of the opinion that the earth is flat then that opinion is wrong and can be proven to be by fact.
    If you are talking shit don't expect others to stand by and not say so.
    Just because you can air an opinion doesn't mean you should.


  13. #13

    Re: Cycone mumblings

    Re 2) Evacuation is one thing and there is really not a lot of comparison between Hamilton and some of the other "resorts" do don't try and make a justification out of Hamilton. BUt while the largest industry in Qld was securing their infrastructure, closing down, locking down and evacuating workers ahead of Debbie from their business's, tourist resorts continued to book in guests that arrived on the last ferry to leave the island and this is simply blatant ignorance, like what is wrong with the management of these places? Are they on a quota hit or maybe looking at their bonus cheque or their bottom line, it's certainly not any consideration towards their guests in this case which was a total lack of responsibility.

  14. #14

    Cycone mumblings

    Why do we always blame the industry/authority when shit goes pear shaped.
    Why aren't we blaming the individual idiots who walked onto the last ferry or refused to leave the island earlier?
    Where is the individual accountability here? Overseas tourists you can maybe forgive,but
    I read of many instances where Australian tourist where still rocking up on resort doorsteps only days prior to the cyclone...

    We all to often act like people are sheep and need to always " be informed".
    People need to take responsibility for their own safety and not pass it onto someone else..


    Sent from my iPhone using Ausfish forums

  15. #15

    Re: Cycone mumblings

    Agree 100% with Flex.

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