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Thread: Signature 540f soft floor.

  1. #1

    Signature 540f soft floor.

    I have a mate that has a Sig 540f and the floor is soft in the back left corner. This is the third time that this floor has gone soft in the same spot.
    I can't understand how a repairer can replace a floor without identifying how it was happening.
    This hull is a 90's one so can anyone give some advice on how this floor can be getting soft.
    There are no holes in the floor and the rot is only in the rear section of the floor. The under floor appears to be in 3 sections, 2 outer sections and the middle that has the fuel tank and kill tank.
    Both of the outer sections have bungs in them that drain into the bilge and the one that has the soft floor lets water out after use when it has been outside. Boat was recently used in flat water and no water came out but once outside, different story. Doesn't appear to be any cracks in the hull.
    Are these hulls double skinned? I have a theory that water is getting in via the rub strip and is getting between the 2 sections of the hull and into the floor.
    Any other ideas..
    Remember to always log on before heading offshore.

  2. #2
    Ausfish Addict Chimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Gold Coast

    Re: Signature 540f soft floor.

    Yes. Perhaps there is a slight depression next to the stringer on the lhs that holds a little water / moisture after free water has been drained out. It does not take much.
    Ask me how I know...............

    Where is the boat?

    Cheers
    Chimo
    What could go wrong.......................

  3. #3

    Re: Signature 540f soft floor.

    if the repair has to be done again I would either open the deck myself and see where the waterstains etc are or make sure you are there when the boatbuilder does it..make sure whether builder has sealed underside of deck previously.

  4. #4

    Re: Signature 540f soft floor.

    I would fix it using a composite product - then it will never need to be done again. Yes the stuff is a bit expensive but it should out see the owner. Thermolite board or Coosa board are the two that come to mind. As to the source of the water - wouldn't think a hull of that vintage would have a molded internal liner. Has there been water in the bilge prior to draining the bung (could the bung be leaking water into the compartment). Where does the compartment stop up forward - had water getting into a forward compartment that turned out to be a tiny access point from below the bow eye block and a leaky bow eye - same deal - only happened when in rough water as normally it was above water. Any drains under bunks etc that might go to this void? Transducer screws etc you would think would leak all the time but if your scratching your head they are worth a shot. Any screws holding a cover over the fuel tank or an extrusion the fuel tank cover sits on? Inveratta's post is worth considering or you could try an inspection camera.

  5. #5

    Re: Signature 540f soft floor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chimo View Post
    Yes. Perhaps there is a slight depression next to the stringer on the lhs that holds a little water / moisture after free water has been drained out. It does not take much.
    Ask me how I know...............

    Where is the boat?

    Cheers
    Chimo
    Boat is in Agnes Water so a bit limited for repair options.
    The bung into this area drains into the boat, not out through the transom. That is what makes the water ingress harder to find.

  6. #6

    Re: Signature 540f soft floor.

    We are looking at ways that the water could be making its way there from the bow but no luck so far.
    There are two drains up in the cabin but they both drain into the central cavity and drain under the kill and fuel tank and out the transom.

  7. #7

    Re: Signature 540f soft floor.

    Had a remarkably similar situation !
    End result, I had to cut out internally to inspect the inside area where the eye bolt goes through.
    After noticing when I bought the boat, the eye bolt was bent, got the installer of my boat catch to swap it out, but you cant seal an area that was basically rotten !
    Yep, if I could see it was rotten, don't know how he figured sika urethane will seal it up.
    The damage, well, floor, cabin seating, stringers, transom.
    Obviously I cant blame him for the damage, it was like it, I suspect, for some time before I bought the boat, but still cursed his stupidity for not pointing the condition out and delaying the inevitable.
    The day I noticed excess water coming out of the bung ( normally a cup full), it was to late............
    C

  8. #8

    Re: Signature 540f soft floor.

    Ozynorts I'll add some similar information for you to ponder. I have a 93' 530F. The floor and stringer system from factory is a very poorly built system. The timber stringers and transom are touching timber to timber joints and chopper gun over the top. The floor was resin coated only underneath and they lack suitable midships bulkheads. Essentially the boats are prone to twisting in the offshore swell.

    The true repair requires full interior removal. And a composite replacement with more emphasis on stiffening the hull.

    I would suggest that the reason the floor is soft in that back corner is due to water damage to the stringer/transom joint at that point. Water will be squeezed from the ply laminations when twisted or pushed hard offshore and filling that side. Often working down from the aluminium cap on the motor well.



    Just some of my rebuild photos of the same area.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Damo's dodgy boat repairs.
    1993 bermuda by Haines 530f - completed resto.
    1976 cruisecraft rogue 14 - estuary weapon.
    1984 vickers easyrider 156 - future project.

  9. #9
    Ausfish Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Kalbarri, WA

    Re: Signature 540f soft floor.

    Crap work on a supposedly top end Australian -made product. But from what I've seen posted, not uncommon. Refresh my memory--were they crap in this respect until early noughties, or di they pull their act together before this? What year boats would you avoid--this could be useful to people considering a purchase.

  10. #10

    Re: Signature 540f soft floor.

    I don't think its quite as simple as that ranmar850. Mine was very similar when it was stripped down, limited thought into protecting the timber stringers, the same connection to the transom as shown in ripitup's picture, supposedly by one of the top builders ( cruise craft ) I guess it was how they did things back then.

    If mine had not had the front eye damage, the volume of water it was exposed to for a long period of time wouldn't have happened, I have a friend with the same boat, one year earlier and he has absolutely no issues. I guess the manufacturers weren't counting the fact that these boats would be still floating around some 20-30 years later. But thankfully modern practices and products are so much better now days, that we can repair them and make them better probably than the day they rolled out from the assembly line. I have a friend currently with a 2004 carribean with a rotten floor ! one suspects its in some instances what we do to boat, fitting up all in sundry of u-bute xtras, drilling holes everywhere, well that's what where assuming with his ( previous owner) but until he strips it out, we wont know. I've just seen a repair on one of the facebook sites, where 4x2 's were used with no glassing in by a guy, the poor new owner opened up a big hornets nest, poor bloke........

  11. #11

    Re: Signature 540f soft floor.

    Quote Originally Posted by blacklab View Post
    I don't think its quite as simple as that ranmar850. Mine was very similar when it was stripped down, limited thought into protecting the timber stringers, the same connection to the transom as shown in ripitup's picture, supposedly by one of the top builders ( cruise craft ) I guess it was how they did things back then.

    If mine had not had the front eye damage, the volume of water it was exposed to for a long period of time wouldn't have happened, I have a friend with the same boat, one year earlier and he has absolutely no issues. I guess the manufacturers weren't counting the fact that these boats would be still floating around some 20-30 years later. But thankfully modern practices and products are so much better now days, that we can repair them and make them better probably than the day they rolled out from the assembly line. I have a friend currently with a 2004 carribean with a rotten floor ! one suspects its in some instances what we do to boat, fitting up all in sundry of u-bute xtras, drilling holes everywhere, well that's what where assuming with his ( previous owner) but until he strips it out, we wont know. I've just seen a repair on one of the facebook sites, where 4x2 's were used with no glassing in by a guy, the poor new owner opened up a big hornets nest, poor bloke........
    Haines have a tortured history...some good ..some brilliant.. and quite a lot...buyer beware....and yes I have a 84 565L ..it needed a lot of fixing about 2007 and there were a lot of shortcuts in the manufacturing that became obvious..but then again over 20 years from manufacture....but the hull design is timeless...use it in Bass Strait with complete confidence

  12. #12
    Ausfish Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Kalbarri, WA

    Re: Signature 540f soft floor.

    I should have been more specific--well-known issues from mid-nineties to turn of century? down to poor quality control and cost cutting on what was meant to be a premium product.--not bagging the whole production run. But I would take exception to the reasoning that they didn't think they'd still be floating around 20 years later--we keep our boats a long time in Australia, and they should have known that. Not limited to Haines, of course, some other "names" did some appalling things under the deck where it was out of site, and it came back to bite owners very quickly. Unacceptable. Conditions they are used and stored under obviously have an effect on the outcome, but, if everything is sealed up well under the deck , some water sitting there shouldn't really hurt it, should it? I think I've been lucky with my latest--lucky in the perspective that I knew the entire history of the boat, ( new in 1982) including how it had been stored, so, after a thorough check, I bought with some confidence. Subsequent drilling, such as the replacement of the original twins with a single, has only shown clean dry wood coming out. Touch wood as for wood, yes, we can rebuild them now with synthetics , and as long as they are a solid glass hull-none of this cored stuff, they certainly will see us out.

  13. #13

    Re: Signature 540f soft floor.

    Very true, a lot of very well known brands are very badly constructed, they look OK, and some have "legendary" status, but they are built of materials that are almost fire wood quality....add to that, some pretty rough installations of motors, and cheap timber transoms just rotted away in no time.

  14. #14

    Re: Signature 540f soft floor.

    That's my hope ranmar, that this current rebuild will well and truly see me out. Mines an 87 vintage and really love everything about it, a good compromise of everything I need. Sure, I'd get a softer riding hull if I pulled the trigger on a new boat ( I say that with some trepidation), and if I added everything up over the journey, I've probably spent the equivalent of a new boat !!!
    But fibreglass "supposedly" has a use by date, but I do think the manufactures of the 80's weren't expecting there boats to be floating up to 30 years plus later.
    Even though I had a full inspection done by a shiprite, I think you just have to be prepared because of the practices back then, that your just going to have to look at some sort of rebuild should you buy and want to keep that sort of vintage.
    But your purchase sounds ideal, knowing the entire history of the boat would be quite rare, sounds like a great purchase.
    I guess that's a major contributor as well, previous owners !!!
    I think if your talking mid 90's onwards, you would have thought manufacturers "should" have got it right by then, but unfortunately you still do see the odd newer one with bad problems. what sort of boat do you have ranmar ?

  15. #15
    Ausfish Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Kalbarri, WA

    Re: Signature 540f soft floor.

    it's actually a Mk11 Swiftcraft Dominator . I even have the original receipt--it was around $14,200 new. Spent most of it's later life parked next door to me in a shed, after being used out of Perth in the first 10 years. Originally fitted with twin 60's, then refitted with new twin 60 mercs in 1998, had no hours on them so I got a good trade on a used F115A. They have a nice fine entry, but fairly round across the stern, so not a head-on hero like the deeper vee's, but very stable and sea-kindly, never give you a bad moment, and we've been out in some real crap. Cockpit is very roomy for the length, shelter is good, so, all in all, happy with a good boat for a relatively small outlay.



    The fold-down rod holder was added by me, canopy needed re-doing, some wiring renewed, had a sumlog and no GPS --jeez, that took me back.

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