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  1. #31

    Re: Fined for not wearing seat boat at the ramp..... watch out

    What Crunchy said! Otherwise every convertible would need a cargo net too.
    Kids who Hunt and Fish, Don't Deal and Steal.

  2. #32

    Re: Fined for not wearing seat belt at the ramp..... watch out

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunchy View Post
    What kind of boat? Small tinny? My argument would be if I can travel in 2M swells for hours with the boat being thrown around in all directions and the esky doesn't come out it sure is hell ain't gunna come out due to a pot hole! Only a roll over would cause it to come out and a cargo net not's gunna make a scrap of difference if that happnes. I would fight a fine n court on this basis....
    Experience tells me other wise Crunchy. I do have to profess to having "misplaced" a few items while highway towing over the years from a 4.5 metre centre console with a complete 9 inch high curtain right around the front and 3/4 of the way down both sides - including a canopy off a T-top that was removed, rolled up tight around the side bars and laid on the floor. Buckets were a regular if I forgot to lock them away or tie them in. Even lost items from within the console. I still to this day do not know how - can only assume the hull used to set up some sort of wind vortex. On my current open boat, I now use a net just so I don't lose stuff as much as meeting my legal requirements.
    "I soak the worms in rum. The fish love em and the worms die happy"
    "Alcohol is not the solution to your problems...................but then again, neither is milk"

  3. #33

    Re: Fined for not wearing seat belt at the ramp..... watch out

    Thanks all. I'll keep a copy of those regs and take on board the advice. I do have a net but it's a PITA and am 100% sure none of my usual load will get sucked out on the highway.
    The weight of fish won't keep the esky secure but the 6kg of melted ice will...

  4. #34

    Re: Fined for not wearing seat belt at the ramp..... watch out

    Quote Originally Posted by scottar View Post
    Experience tells me other wise Crunchy. I do have to profess to having "misplaced" a few items while highway towing over the years from a 4.5 metre centre console with a complete 9 inch high curtain right around the front and 3/4 of the way down both sides - including a canopy off a T-top that was removed, rolled up tight around the side bars and laid on the floor. Buckets were a regular if I forgot to lock them away or tie them in. Even lost items from within the console. I still to this day do not know how - can only assume the hull used to set up some sort of wind vortex. On my current open boat, I now use a net just so I don't lose stuff as much as meeting my legal requirements.
    Ever lost an esky in your journeys? Crunchy was talking about eskies, not small items.

  5. #35
    Ausfish Bronze Member WildFishExpeditions's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    South East VIC

    Re: Fined for not wearing seat boat at the ramp..... watch out

    I agree this happens in the case of life jacket regulation, which came in as compulsory in unde 4.8m boats after a number of drownings. However i dont believe that logic stretches to giving out fines for having non rated D shackles or some sea water coming out of the bung and onto the road.

    Enforcement authorities should enfore actual laws. Not just make some up as they go. Because they end up looking like idiots doing that

    "oh lets start fining people for un rated D shackles, then end up with egg on our faces when its uncovered that this isnt even illegal and have to refund all the money anyway"

    I think fisheries are doing a good job and should probably be given more resources. No punishment too severe!

    My only experience with the water police has been negative. They tried to fine me for an unregistered boat. The registration sticker wasnt enough for them and they wanted to see the other registration paperwork (like i would have that on me!!!) I tried to tell them that it was definitely registered and had been for months. They then said their records showed it had been registered and had the registration canceled on the same day. Why would i do that????

    So they wanted to give me a fine of $700. I said well since we dont agree, how about you give me a few days to come into the police station and i will bring the rest of the documents. And if i dont show up you can send me the fine since u now have my license number and address etc. No no that was a bad idea according to them. So i got the $700 fine and they said they would cancel it once i showed evidence.... ummm ok i said but it better be easy to cancel the fine! Yeah yeah of course they said as the wetness ran down behind their ears!

    So i send away the forms and a week later i get a call to say the fine has been cancelled. Ok great i think! 2 weeks later get a reminder to pay my fine... call the police "ignore it the fine has been canceled" they said... a month goes by and another reminder. "Ignore it the fine has been canceled they said... this went on and on until i was told i was about to get a court date and have a sherrif come around and take my stuff for unpaid fines!!!!! I said if anyone comes around to take my stuff, i will be reporting it stolen, as i dont owe anyone any money!

    More phone calls back and forth to the police and thy eventually said "the fax was lost to cancel the fine" RIGHT STOP TALKING S##T!!!!!!!!

    and after all this shite, when i went back to vic roads they showed me what the issue was, the police had been looking at the wrong screen page on their Ipad. Brilliant!



    Quote Originally Posted by scottar View Post
    Unfortunately we only have ourselves to blame. It's the same with occupational health and safety - people keep doing stupid shit and cutting corners and get hurt or hurt others and then want to blame someone else. The result - the rest of us pay for it with stupid regulation that regardless of whether they agree or not, the enforcement agencies are obliged to enforce or they will potentially get themselves in the crap.

  6. #36

    Re: Fined for not wearing seat belt at the ramp..... watch out

    Quote Originally Posted by JulianDeMarchi View Post
    Ever lost an esky in your journeys? Crunchy was talking about eskies, not small items.
    Very nearly lost the lid off a 160 litre fibreglass Evakool and in my travels have seen plenty of eskies on the side of the road - none of which I would particularly enjoy coming straight at my windscreen or worse still if on a motorbike. Yes - most of what was lost was light but at 100kph it doesn't take much weight to do damage.
    "I soak the worms in rum. The fish love em and the worms die happy"
    "Alcohol is not the solution to your problems...................but then again, neither is milk"

  7. #37

    Re: Fined for not wearing seat boat at the ramp..... watch out

    Quote Originally Posted by WildFishExpeditions View Post
    I agree this happens in the case of life jacket regulation, which came in as compulsory in unde 4.8m boats after a number of drownings. However i dont believe that logic stretches to giving out fines for having non rated D shackles or some sea water coming out of the bung and onto the road.
    Got to disagree Wildfish on the D shackle - the water though is ridiculous. Having spent pretty much my entire life working around and towing trailer boats, some of the safety chain connections I have seen (and have to admit - used) over the years leave a lot to be desired. For a lot of years until I was educated against it, I used a padlock. I have seen cheap Bunnings snap clips, well undersized D shackles and all sorts of things used - some good but plenty were dodgy. I wouldn't mind betting someone (or a few someones) has had a trailer come adrift and snap whatever it was that was "securing" the safety chain to the car and hey presto - in the spirit of continuous reporting and safety improvement, the change in wording in the towing laws came about (this did happen a year or two ago in Queensland)

    The big problem with "laws" is that they are open to interpretation. The D shackle thing has been done to death over the years and no - it is not a legal requirement to use one but (in Queensland at least) it is a requirement to be able to prove to the inspecting officer that whatever device you have decided to use as a connection is of sufficient strength to do the job. Now how you do this for a non stamped shackle is anyone's guess and some officers may have interpreted the ruling incorrectly or simply decided they were not going to take responsibility for making a judgement on non rated hardware - who knows but as per the rules, they are within their rights to issue an infringement - much the same as the bloke who has received the ticket is within his rights to have his day in court and plead his case.
    "I soak the worms in rum. The fish love em and the worms die happy"
    "Alcohol is not the solution to your problems...................but then again, neither is milk"

  8. #38

    Re: Fined for not wearing seat boat at the ramp..... watch out

    Losing things out of boats is not an uncommon occurrence, just look at the side of the road.
    I know i have lost buckets, lids off eskies, towels, at least two fishing rods and an anchor on one occasion.....yes and anchor.
    I left a loop of rope loose probably on the foredeck and it worked free and tangled the passenger side trailer wheel tearing the anchor from the boat and doing a quite a bit of damage along the way.
    Using a net eliminates these possibilites, but in saying that can a poorly secured net be a hazard as well? I imagine most boats would have possibly 4 or 6 tie down points especially when connecting to a bimini. How secure can that be?
    Jack.

  9. #39

    Re: Fined for not wearing seat boat at the ramp..... watch out

    I don't think you can get fined for that if you aren't on a public road?

    A boat ramp isn't that, similar to a parking area at supermarkets?

    Buggers!

  10. #40

    Re: Fined for not wearing seat boat at the ramp..... watch out

    Quote Originally Posted by tunaticer View Post
    Losing things out of boats is not an uncommon occurrence, just look at the side of the road.
    I know i have lost buckets, lids off eskies, towels, at least two fishing rods and an anchor on one occasion.....yes and anchor.
    I left a loop of rope loose probably on the foredeck and it worked free and tangled the passenger side trailer wheel tearing the anchor from the boat and doing a quite a bit of damage along the way.
    Using a net eliminates these possibilites, but in saying that can a poorly secured net be a hazard as well? I imagine most boats would have possibly 4 or 6 tie down points especially when connecting to a bimini. How secure can that be?

    That would have been somewhat "exciting" when it happened Jack for lack of a better description. Did it lock the trailer up in the process?
    "I soak the worms in rum. The fish love em and the worms die happy"
    "Alcohol is not the solution to your problems...................but then again, neither is milk"

  11. #41

    Re: Fined for not wearing seat boat at the ramp..... watch out

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinkPanther View Post
    I don't think you can get fined for that if you aren't on a public road?

    A boat ramp isn't that, similar to a parking area at supermarkets?

    Buggers!
    Supermarket is on privately owned land and would be different ( I think ) but the boat ramp would be in most cases government owned of one description or another.
    "I soak the worms in rum. The fish love em and the worms die happy"
    "Alcohol is not the solution to your problems...................but then again, neither is milk"

  12. #42
    Ausfish Bronze Member WildFishExpeditions's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    South East VIC

    Re: Fined for not wearing seat boat at the ramp..... watch out

    I agree there are soome mugs who have insufficient equipment to hold their trailer to their car. But a lot of people are not like this. The stupid part about the D shackle fines ober being "rated" was ridiculous because your safety chains are never rated and neither are the welds that hold them to the draw bar. If the police can just fine whatever they fancy or interpret, where does it end? If i have a rated shackle, but they don't think my chains are strong enough can they still fine me, even though thats how the trailer was built. Unlikely but i bet they would try if you gave them the chance.

  13. #43

    Re: Fined for not wearing seat boat at the ramp..... watch out

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinkPanther View Post
    I don't think you can get fined for that if you aren't on a public road?

    A boat ramp isn't that, similar to a parking area at supermarkets?

    Buggers!
    They are both considered a road related area as per To(rum) 1995. Pretty much if it is designed to have a vehicle driven on it, it is classed as a road there for all rules apply.

    As for the D shackle thing, not once have I seen or heard of a ticket being given for one. There is no ticket code for that so called "offence" and I can't see any copper trying to make one up and face a misconduct investigation and possibly loose his job so he can write a dodgy ticket.

  14. #44

    Re: Fined for not wearing seat boat at the ramp..... watch out

    Quote Originally Posted by WildFishExpeditions View Post
    I agree there are soome mugs who have insufficient equipment to hold their trailer to their car. But a lot of people are not like this. The stupid part about the D shackle fines ober being "rated" was ridiculous because your safety chains are never rated and neither are the welds that hold them to the draw bar. If the police can just fine whatever they fancy or interpret, where does it end? If i have a rated shackle, but they don't think my chains are strong enough can they still fine me, even though thats how the trailer was built. Unlikely but i bet they would try if you gave them the chance.
    Safety chain legislation has changed as well I think but yes - it's a bloody minefield and can be excessively difficult to get a straight answer out of anyone in a position of authority that is actually fact and not their opinion. My take is that the trailer manufacturer has fitted the chains and as such they should be "fit for purpose" and if the shite hits the fan, that will be the legal avenue I would be pursuing. As for the shackles - hey if anyone wants to get into a stand up barney with an enforcement officer over a couple of $10 D shackles, that's the individuals call. I didn't see the point myself given the outlay - cost less than a couple of beers these days depending on where you are. Unfortunately the stupid legislation is here to stay - given the litigious path that we as a society have chosen to follow it will get well worse before it gets better. I don't like it any more than the next man but standing on the side of a road arguing with a copper is not really the place or time to do anything about it so why bother provided it's easy enough to comply with.

    Not sure what Vic Roads publishes in regard to this but the Qld Transport Safe towing guide has the info in it.
    "I soak the worms in rum. The fish love em and the worms die happy"
    "Alcohol is not the solution to your problems...................but then again, neither is milk"

  15. #45

    Re: Fined for not wearing seat boat at the ramp..... watch out

    Our el cheapo govt went from annual over the pit checks to randomised call ins.
    When my trailer (commercially built) got selected they were unhappy with the welded-on tow hitch that had four holes for bolts in it and ordered me to drill through the holes and fit proper bolts.
    I fitted bolts and locknuts to the two holes that went through the connecting arm to the trailer.
    They rejected that until I fitted bolts to the two holes that missed the connecting arm and just sat in the air.(????????????)

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