Outboards in remote areas.

[scottar]

If you are going to go "new tech", you need to ensure that whomever sells you the motor is happy to also supply the software,the required interface and a service manual. Personally though i agree with the sentiment of the old school two banger - basically a lawn mower with a water pump.

[WildFishExpeditions]

Umm. I could be wrong but Im pretty sure every time you have any modern outboard serviced it would be hooked up to a computer to tell you whats been going on in it. The etec is VERY hi tech as you probably know and you will struggle to fix almost anything yourself that breaks down. even if you do fix it, the computer will probably have to be played with to make the error codes go away. I dont know what model etec you are talking about but I was told by an etec mechanic that they are so tightly tuned, that when they take the spark plugs out to inspect them, they have to put the same plug back in the same cylinder to avoid some kind of malfunction. I have never heard of this before on any engine, but he was the mechanic, not me. if I was in your situation I would be looking at an easy to work on carb 2 stroke.

When I looked at getting an etec I asked about the 300 hour service and the mechanic said that they still should come in to the service centre at 150 hours for a technical service, which was mostly software checks. but still I dont know how you would be able to do anything like this without a dealer.

I also wouldnt be getting too worried about the etec power v 4 stroke. look at the test etec did V the mercury 4 stroke. IF you believe the etec tests are 100 percent impartial which is a big if, the 150 etec beat the 150 merc by about 10 meters over a drag race that looked like about 5km long. Absolutely nothing in it performance wise.

If it were me I'd get a carb 2 stroke that I know I can fix, or any half decent mechanic can fix without any software. Your choice though.

[WildFishExpeditions]

a stock standard old hat 2 stroke is a simpler beast. the etec is not in that category. its got tech on top of tech on top of tech. There is nothing really more complex about a 4 stroke at all. sure it has a timing belt or chain and valve and what have you. which only need to be looked at every 1000 hours! Since that complete side of the engine hardly ever needs to be looked at, then its not really complicated as you wont even see it or need to touch it.

Here is my take. Noelm tends to be black and white which is ok. I understand where he is coming from. But spaniardking couched it in a more nuanced way. " The Etec simply requires too much training to be competent in diagnosis and repair".
Which begs the question, are the others any better? I mean the two stroke is a much simpler beast.
Noelm, please dont be so quick to arch up mate. If we were all geniuses, there wouldnt be any questions, lol. I just wanted to know how important a dealer is when your so far away anyway. There are others here who have had this very dilemma. So for all intents and purposes i will be on my own. Its about totally informed decisions
I get the point about looking beyond the three year service intervals.
But as i said before, it will be a leap of faith which ever i get. If i play safe, its most likley a suzuki or yamaha.. I did have yamaha 60 4s in my first boat and i cant complain. it was pretty good. But so was the etec on my second boat. So i am not going to dismiss them out of hand without good reasons. Suzuki everybody's darling at the moment but i also see that they have jumped up in cost.
Chimo, thats a lame attempt at humour, hahahaha Maybe thats another qualifier, no tiler steer.

[scottar]

Yep,you could be wrong. There is plenty of stuff you can repair on the Etec yourself and indeed many,including myself, do a lot of their own servicing. There are good internet support forums with assistance from not only enthusiasts like ourselves but industry professionals. Once you have delved into the engines, there are no really great mysteries. They are a two stroke engine with a modern computerised fuel delivery system - different yes but no more complicated to diagnose than a four stroke with a modern computerised fuel delivery system - neither of which will tolerate dodgy fuel and can be damaged and expensive to repair. Spark plugs need to be indexed - no great mystery and easy to do with online instuctions and videos available. For the G1 Etec's at least, the software is readily available and the interface is easily constructed using off the shelf components and online instructions - I have this permanently connected on my engine so I can check diagnostics at will.

I would still however be using an old tech carby two stroke unless wanting to do a lot of trolling or fuel consumption is an issue in a remote area with suspect fuel in so much as a quick carby clean and you are away again with little chance of fuel system damage

[Noelm]

I can see what Scott means too, but, the biggest difference that "might" catch out a non familiar repair man, is the injectors are not simple auto style, it has a completely foreign (compared to 4 stroke) oil system, and is a 2 stroke, now let me be perfectly clear here (or black and white) I am not saying the e-tec is bad, or inferior to a 4 stroke, just saying, that in remote areas, far from qualified help, a much simpler "car" engine just might be a better option, self servicing I don't think is an issue with any motor, it's when it all turns to poop, and you need help or even a simple part that being common and even having a dealer in the country, just might just save your bum!

[shakey55]

My suggestion is, spend some time searching the net and make some phone calls.

You mention you are up north. I hope your enjoying life, but my travels in Thailand (not a lot) tell me that the further north, the more remote, and the less availability of products, etc.

My thoughts would be buy locally (Thailand) and be prepared to travel for servicing and repairs. This is the safest. You may learn to do a few things, but there eventually will be a need to take it back to the dealer recommended service location.

To me it's a no brainier.

I admire your effort to learn and be self reliant, but the experts are trained and supported by the manufacturers.

Below are some links to start.

GOOD LUCK

https://phuketindex.com/megazip/index.htm

http://paulsboatyard.asia/2-stroke-o...d-in-thailand/

http://www.surapolmarine.com/shop/contact.php




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[Skusto]

I have two etecs now and to be honest if I was you I would personally go with Yamaha or Suzuki due to the fact they are there in the county.

Love the etecs and four strokes but having no dealer support may turn ugly, head over to the etec forums and ask them some very knowledgable people there and they might give you a better understanding on what could possibly go wrong?

Also don't forget it would be very expensive to ship over the evinrude oil if you were going to use xd50 or xd100, weight is the killer on freight for oil.


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[Andy56]

Thanks guys, i think i am a little more the wiser now. I hear what people say about two strokes, but i aint going backwards by twenty years. And yes, i do think etecs are more powerfull than 4 strokes, hence my interest. Whilst the quality of fuel here cant be guaranteed as back home, its not drum quality and proper filtering would be a must anywhere.
As for self maintenance and servicing, only Etec forums have good coverage. Yamaha and suzuki suck. So there are lots of pros and cons.
Yes I am up north, Chiang Mai.
So again i have to ask, dont the issues bedeveling the etec also apply to 4strokes from yam and suzi (apart from the obvious dealer issue).
See the way i see it, canning one product doesnt absolve the others from issues. What are the issues with yamaha and Suzuki? If i am to make a truly informed decision, i need all the facts.
One point nobody has mentioned is fuel type, 91-98oct. What is available here is 91,95 octane unleaded. 91, 95 and 98 Ethanol blends.
I like the argument that 4s are not more complex but have a lot of extras, hahahahaha It raised a smile.

[scottar]

They can all have niggles. A mates 70 yamaha required the trim and tlt repaired at the first service and intermittantly blows fuses. He was advised of the fuse issue by the dealer when he picked the boat up after the engine was fitted because "some of them seem to do it". These niggles aside he is rapt with the engine. If you are happy to wait for parts then it really won't matter what brand. If you want quicker access then it would probably be better to pick a locally supported brand b' ut this will depend on the local support.

[WildFishExpeditions]

Well andy you seem set on the Etec, so you may as well get it.

You can laugh at me if you want, but the point is valid. 4 strokes are more complex from a engineering point of view but not maintenance wise. I have gone from a 2 stroke 75hp carb to a 4 stroke 150hp FI. the servicing costs on the 4 stroke a cheaper! my old 75hp would cost minimum $400 per service, my new 4 stroke is yet to cost me over $330 - and I just pay a mechanic to do it. My motorbikes I do myself. I have had 2 strokes and 4 strokes, guess what, the maintenance is virtually identical! How many times do you need to adjust the valves, or replace a timing chain - hardly ever! Yamaha recommends every 1000 hours, which for most people is about once every 20 years. and you get all these 2 stroke fan boys who say the same old "Arr jees 4 stroke so many moving parts, too much can go wrong with it"

what exactly could go wrong with it? what they think you hit a piece of seaweed and the valves will fall into the cylinders? moronic talk. modern 4 stroke arn't far off car engines and I never hear someone say to a car salesman, "jees i like this falcon ute, but 4 stroke.... ummm too many moving parts for me, got any 2 stroke scooters?" I am not suggesting you have been put off 4 strokes because of all their mysterious moving parts, but a lot of people are - they are fools.

point is the majority of things that go wrong with an outboard, over heating, gear box problem, fuel injection problems etc etc - none of that is related to being a 4 stroke.

lately I have been having problems with my triumph and I have to take it to a friend who has a triumph computer to find what sensor or whatever is failing. I also get a computer report when my 150 gets serviced, hence why I said during a service you will need (or should) have it hooked up to some software, but as others have said this seems to be a DIY way to do this.

I can't speak for yamaha or suzuki's rep. they both seem very good, but nothing is bullet proof. I have towed back both suzuki and yamaha 4 strokes to the boat ramp and saw on FB yesterday a 115 suzuki for sale with a cracked block. but I rarely hear of any problems with either.

Thanks guys, i think i am a little more the wiser now. I hear what people say about two strokes, but i aint going backwards by twenty years. And yes, i do think etecs are more powerfull than 4 strokes, hence my interest. Whilst the quality of fuel here cant be guaranteed as back home, its not drum quality and proper filtering would be a must anywhere.
As for self maintenance and servicing, only Etec forums have good coverage. Yamaha and suzuki suck. So there are lots of pros and cons.
Yes I am up north, Chiang Mai.
So again i have to ask, dont the issues bedeveling the etec also apply to 4strokes from yam and suzi (apart from the obvious dealer issue).
See the way i see it, canning one product doesnt absolve the others from issues. What are the issues with yamaha and Suzuki? If i am to make a truly informed decision, i need all the facts.
One point nobody has mentioned is fuel type, 91-98oct. What is available here is 91,95 octane unleaded. 91, 95 and 98 Ethanol blends.
I like the argument that 4s are not more complex but have a lot of extras, hahahahaha It raised a smile.

[Andy56]

Wildfish, i think your badly mistaken if you thing i have made up my mind. I am still asking questions because there are still issues that havent been satisfactorily answered. I have been looking at videos on outboard servicing. If anything, i am leaning towards yamaha. At this stage, you guys have put the fear of god on all three. hahahaha

[WildFishExpeditions]

good you are not a blinded by one brand. the yamaha are good. everything is good when its new. everything has had problems too. merc had a bad rap from the old days, yamaha has had corrosion problems, suzuki head problems, etec, power heads and injectors. nothing is perfect, but I dont think there is really much between any of them. You may believe that the etec is more powerful than the rest, I tend to lean on the side of hype on that one. It might have slightly more torque, not sure if it would be enough to notice a difference really. when I was in thailand all the big boats that were running people to the islands were using yamaha, honda mostly and I saw some suzuki and even optimax. this was in the 200-350hp category however.

Wildfish, i think your badly mistaken if you thing i have made up my mind. I am still asking questions because there are still issues that havent been satisfactorily answered. I have been looking at videos on outboard servicing. If anything, i am leaning towards yamaha. At this stage, you guys have put the fear of god on all three. hahahaha

[Kondo 1]

Having spent allot of time in remote areas of the pacific and Asia, run what everyone else is running. I don't care if it a car, a boat or a plane - if you are somewhat remote having anything mechanical that is an orphan is a nightmare.

If you stick with a Yamaha, Honda or Suzuki modern 4 stroke and keep clean fuel and oil to it is extremely unlikely it will need much love past standard servicing. The older tech Yamaha 2 strokes are also bulletproof, and if that is what the other locals run then stick with that. Whatever you do, and with consideration to your location - stick with the most popular option in your area - if there is parts in the country for Suzi and Yamaha then at least you can get your mits on those somewhat more easily than imported stuff. And if other people are running what you have you will usually squirrel out someone helpful in the event your have an issue.


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[Andy56]

Wildfish, i know from experience that etecs have more torque than equivalent 4s. I have experienced both sides of the fence. The silence from the other brands is understandable. So they market the engine in other ways.
now i keep reading the same but different arguments. Nothing much can go wrong with 4s, easy to service etc etc. well then the same applies to the etec then, no? So from where i stand, the only difference is dealer support. Which brings me round again.
Yes i have seen many yamaha outboards here that would look good in a museum. And yes they make fiberglass boats here too, but they are displacement hulls which bang on any wave.
so here is another series of questions, which of the three brands is easiest to service? Which of the three have diagnistics that i can tap into? Which has the cheapest impeller kits? Which ones are easy to work on? At the back of my mind, i still keep thinking i shouldnt dismiss the etec outright.

[scottar]

No point asking here. Ring some dealers and check on the prices of some parts and ask if you can purchase the diagnostic gear and service manuals and the costs. Also bare in mind that with the Etec at least, some features in the software will require a dealer log in so make sure prior to purchase that your dealer will be happy to help out if the need arises.