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Thread: Seafarer X-Series review

  1. #16

    Re: Seafarer X-Series review

    Lockwood is a good journo and has spent a lot of time around trailerboats. Good to see the brand live on.

    The Victory hull is an all-time classic. John Haines Snr said it himself when he acquired the moulds - that's coming from the man who designed most of the stuff the Mexicans are assembling down south.

    Build wise - there are certainly better ways to build new boats these days. I was only discussing this with Ian Wright (Norman Wrights) last weekend - and Lindsay Fry before that - particularly around the use of composites / resin infusion and carbon fibre hulls. But it all comes at a cost and requires skill - in Australia these days there doesn't seem to be a symmetry between the two.

  2. #17

    Re: Seafarer X-Series review

    The entire fibreglass trailer boat building industry really is a bit of a joke, all trying to reproduce the same old stuff done 50 years ago, just rebadgeing them and changing the size written on the side by a couple of 100mm. and did John Haines ever really design a boat?? the only ones with real cred where flopped of proven boats from the US and even then they were out of date in the US

  3. #18

    Re: Seafarer X-Series review

    Donzi?

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  4. #19

    Re: Seafarer X-Series review

    what about Donzi?

  5. #20

    Re: Seafarer X-Series review

    Thought they were one of the early designs from where haines came from

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  6. #21

    Re: Seafarer X-Series review

    As expressed by David Toyer:

    John Haines originally built and sold his V12, V15 and V19 hulls as Bertrams as they were a Ray Hunt designed deep vee (Ray Hunt designed the original Bertrams). Around the same time International Marine in Melbourne (run by Arch Spooner) began importing and then manufacturing under licence, the US designed Bertram hulls (25 foot and up as that was all they made)

    After "discussions" between international Marine and John Haines regarding the use of the name Bertram, John Haines changed the name of his boat range to Haines Hunter (the Haines boats were referred to as a Bertram for just over 2 years).

    International Marine continued to market their Australian built cruisers as Bertram for over 3 decades until they too needed to change to Carribean Bertram and finally just Caribbean

    ***

    Most Australian deep vee trailerboats can trace their design pedigree to the original Ray Hunt design.

  7. #22

    Re: Seafarer X-Series review

    Peter--Jim Wynne, was a mechanical engineer, one-time engineer for Mercury when it was owned by Carl K. He invented the sterndrive, developed it, and sold it to Volvo. He and his partner, Walt Walters,(another untrained boat designer) brought Ray Hunt's deep-V to the next level through offshore racing, mostly by increasing the boat' length-to-beam ratio, and eliminated the slightly rounded keel of the Bertrams. He designed the Formula and the Donzi, both start up companies for Don Aronow.

    Copy from Classically Whaler continuous wave forum.
    Turns out Donzi is just another spinoff from the Ray Hunt design.
    Sorry couldnt get link sorted

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  8. #23

    Re: Seafarer X-Series review

    As i said he ever really designed a boat just took old designs from the USA and re badged them. and that's pretty much what we see as the standard now just dressing up old models and calling them something new. Imagine if the automotive industry worked this way or any other manufacturing industry for that matter.

    Old boats are great when they are restored to original state like an old classic car.

    Move on people, the rest of the world has.

  9. #24

    Re: Seafarer X-Series review

    I find this whole story quite interesting.
    I wonder how this would have turned out if media - manufacturer relationship went a different direction or if hunt and bertram never spoke.
    Sorry kingy but i like the story

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  10. #25

    Re: Seafarer X-Series review

    Quote Originally Posted by stue2 View Post
    I find this whole story quite interesting.
    I wonder how this would have turned out if media - manufacturer relationship went a different direction or if hunt and bertram never spoke.
    Sorry kingy but i like the story

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
    Don't get me wrong I love the story and how it all come about and also love the old boats that where produced back in the day and I also love all the Ford and Holdens but would I have 1 as a daily drive? No I would not.
    I guess what im trying to say is the fibreglass boat builder need to have a good hard look at what they are doing if they want to survive and compete against the plate guys.

  11. #26

    Re: Seafarer X-Series review

    Kingy - boats have come a long way since the 1960's, heck even the 1980's. Taking the car analogy, most cars still have four wheels, a front mounted engine and a steel frame. Fibreglass trailerboats are much the same in principal. You can trace the genesis of most man made products back to a pioneering design. There is nothing wrong with a deep vee hull - but a 6.0 metre trailerboat today be it CC, Seafarer, Haines or Coota Craft is a different beast to how most started life in a Australia in the guise of the V19 plug.

    I argue that John Haines was a designer - and one of our good ones. Aside from the early boats, he designed every single other plug he made. The 600R for example (now the Edencraft) was his design, as was the race bred 773. Sure - he built the 233 based on the Thunderbird, but like most designers of his era, sought to then innovate (for better or worse).

    At issue is whether that spirit for innovation is still there. Innovation in design, and innovation in build techniques. Seems like the two aren't quite marrying up - the boutique guys are nailing the build and the household production names are leading the innovation! I guess it all comes down to one thing - $.

  12. #27

    Re: Seafarer X-Series review

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean_Spirit View Post

    My issue today is that the quest for innovation is not quite there. Innovation in design, and innovation in build techniques. A lot of it has to do with cost and capital that just isn't there - and buyers willing to accept cheaper products.
    How can you say that! The new HH675 now has two live wells in the transom whereas the 650 classic only had one.

  13. #28

    Re: Seafarer X-Series review

    Crunchy you got me there...

    I'd like to see a well designed, well built, legally towable 23 Express. Carbon fibre hull with epoxy resin infused build.

  14. #29

    Re: Seafarer X-Series review

    Ocean Spirit, you would like to see all that but you wouldn't want to pay for it. $180K buys you an average designed, ok built, legally towable 23 foot polyester resin fibreglass boat.

  15. #30

    Re: Seafarer X-Series review

    There is a reason that glass boat design hasn't "changed" (personally I think it has - there are a lot of subtle tweaks that you wouldn't even pick unless you lined them up side by side). The formula to this day is a sound business model if implemented properly and stuck to. Start trying to "compete" with the custom alloy boys and you (along with a lot of them) are headed to one place only - the dole queue. One off customization in glass is expensive - there are builders that do it and do it well, but you will never see there boats at a boat show because most of us can't afford them or won't pay the dollars involved even if we can.

    The rest of the GRP guys have to try and find a comfortable medium between cost, features, the market's wants and what the market will pay. Some of them do a pretty bloody good job of it too as witnessed by the number of boats going through their factory doors. As to the price sticker - funny how the only builders that seem to stand the test of time are the ones selling "overpriced" boats. Maybe they are onto something.

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