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  1. #16

    Re: Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

    Quote Originally Posted by hainsofast View Post
    Problem with the cruisers it Toyota tax, cost you $70K at least for the pov pack, they are nice but way overpriced
    They are pricey but when your only real opposition in terms of a diesel tow tug is an import ute at 100K plus though they start to look a bit better.

  2. #17

    Re: Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

    Quote Originally Posted by beerhunter View Post
    Could do a dual cab conversion on a 200 series and eat Pal because you cant afford proper food

    sent from the beerhunter
    Haven't you seen how expensive Pal is these days.

  3. #18

    Re: Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan5 View Post
    I have a 200 Series also and yeah does everything that much better than the rest IMO but..................The question was Dualcab yeah?
    Yes it was - with the subtext that the OP was dubious about some of the stated towing capabilities being practical - and rightly so IMO. He could look at an F-Truck or similar to comfortably tow 3.5T I guess but he did say "any advice welcomed".

  4. #19

    Re: Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

    Because you are on the limit for most brands you'll need a pencil and a calculator to work out that what you're being fed here isn't all that it appears. The 200 cruiser is notoriously light on in the towing department numbers if you get pulled over for a check.
    GVM upgrades are worthless when towing 3500 k.g. because the GCM doesn't change - the ride might be better, but the figures are still the same.
    A 200 has a GCM of 6800 k.g. Take away the trailer of 3500 leaves you 3300 k.g. to play with. Kerb weight is 2700 odd, leaves you 600 k.g. take away the 350 towbar weight leaves 245 k.g. for fuel, people, bullbars, batteries, fridge etc - not really viable.
    The Ranger ends up with 300 k.g. to play with at 3500 k.g. - same basket really and no one is going to say it's a better tow vehicle than a 200. It's pretty good, but it's still nothing like the king - I've towed on capacity with both.
    The dual cab cruiser has the same GCM as the 200, but is kerb weighted without air con, towbar, or tray, so without them you've got 1085 k.g. I'd guess you'd end up with somewhere around 500 k.g. left over depending on fitout?
    A D4 discovery still has a very useable 670 k.g. payload at 3500 k.g.
    Bottom line, there aren't a whole lot of viable options to tow at max on the Australian market, and even less if you restrict to dual cabs only. Landrover has the LEGAL wood on them all, and always has.
    nil carborundum illegitimi

  5. #20

    Re: Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

    Quote Originally Posted by GBC View Post
    ...
    The 200 cruiser...GVM upgrades are worthless when towing 3500 k.g. because the GCM doesn't change - the ride might be better, but the figures are still the same.
    A 200 has a GCM of 6800 k.g....
    GBC, you are 100% incorrect!

    The LC200 does not have a GCM. Toyota do not specify one, therefore 'NO ONE can'. This is Law and specified in ADR's. This is also why a GVM upgrade works with the LC200.

  6. #21

    Re: Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

    http://www.statewide4x4.com.au/faq.aspx

    Then the people doing the GVM upgrades are incorrect?

    Does Increasing My GVM Also Increase My GCM Or My Towing Capacity?

    No it does not. Unfortunately you cannot increase the overall GCM or the maximum towing capacity over the manufacturers specifications. By increasing the GVM of your vehicle it allows you to be smarter in the way you set up your vehicle and caravan/trailer.
    If you are towing up to the maximum towing capacity at all times then a GVM Upgrade may not suit your needs, however this is not a very common scenario. If you tow less than your maximum towing capacity then it is very likely that you can benefit from having a GVM Upgrade.
    FOR EXAMPLE:
    200 Series Landcruiser:

    • GVM 3300kg
    • Max Towing Capacity: 3500kg
    • GCM: 6800kg

    If you were towing a 2800kg caravan with a ball weight of approx 280kg and your vehicle was loaded up to the maximum GVM of 3300kg (inc your ball weight)
    GVM 3300kg + Caravan 2800kg = 6,100kg
    As you can see you still have another 700kg before you reach the manufacturers maximum GCM of 6800kg. By having a GVM Upgrade fitted and increasing the GVM of the vehicle from 3300kg to 3800kg you can make use of another 500kg on the vehicle while still remaing compliant and roadworthy, also ensuring that you are covered by insurance should you have an accident.

    GCM has always been GVM plus tow capacity as stated by the Manufacturer which Toyota has always given. Suspension companies could never assume to increase GCM.


    EDIT: See the link below

    http://www.toyota.com.au/home?WT.ac=...cificationsPDF

    Toyota website states a GCM of 6850 k.g. under 'weight's and capacities' in the specification section of the 200

    Don't go killing anyone with your 100% incorrect car - you'll have a hard time arguing it with the coroner.
    nil carborundum illegitimi

  7. #22

    Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

    Well that is only very new, obviously just released with the new 200 update GBC. And yes, it is a game changer and means that a GVM upgrade does not increase towing capacity like it used to - so my apologies., you are correct that it now has a GCM.

    The GCM was not in place when I bought my 200 in September 2013, and being a pedantic SOB engineer I researched the hell out of it, read the legislation and the relevant standards and found written evidence that I could do a GVM upgrade and still tow 3500. In the end I didn't get the upgrade anyway.

    If someone has the new model 200 please confirm if the compliance plate or the Manual has this GCM on/in them.

  8. #23

    Re: Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

    Is that correct that you subtract the trailer weight as well as the towball weight?

    Seems to be double counting.

  9. #24

    Re: Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

    GVM upgrade is still worth doing (assuming you need to tow at GCM) which if calculated by the addition of towing capacity and GVM is impossible to reach (if applying the 10% rule of thumb) on any vehicle. What it does mean is that any upgrade over 350Kg is not gaining anything in respect to towing.

  10. #25

    Re: Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

    It might just be the way it was written, but please explain? I'm sure it makes sense.
    nil carborundum illegitimi

  11. #26

    Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

    Quote Originally Posted by scottar View Post
    GVM upgrade is still worth doing (assuming you need to tow at GCM) which if calculated by the addition of towing capacity and GVM is impossible to reach (if applying the 10% rule of thumb) on any vehicle. What it does mean is that any upgrade over 350Kg is not gaining anything in respect to towing.
    Now that is 100% correct Scott.

    With the new LC 200 (3350 GVM, 6850 GCM, 3500kg tow capacity) you still gain advantage with a 350kg GVM upgrade if you have 350kg towball mass. However if your 3.5t rig has no weight on the ball (yes, why would you), you gain no advantage with an upgrade.

    Lovells won't be happy with Toyota that's for sure, their +500 upgrade is now not so worthwhile for the towing folk.

  12. #27

    Re: Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

    Quote Originally Posted by PixieAU View Post
    Is that correct that you subtract the trailer weight as well as the towball weight?

    Seems to be double counting.
    The way this works -

    GCM = 6800Kg
    Trailer maximum free standing weight (not on vehicle) is 3500 Kg
    GVM - total allowable weight of the car including any towball weight -3300

    The rule of thumb for towing is that 10% of the loads weight is a good weight to have applied to the towball. If and when the scalies pull you up and weigh you, they weigh with the trailer connected so the weight on the towball will be counted as part of the GVM. This means that without a GVM upgrade, if you are towing 3.5 T and the 10% rule of thumb is relevant to your setup, the most you can pack the car to (prior to trailer attachment) is 2950 Kg making it physically impossible to legally reach the GCM (unless by some freak of nature you manage to get a trailer that tows ok with zero Kg on the towbar..

    This is where the GVM upgrade comes in. With a GVM upgrade of 350 Kg, you can load the car to the full 3300 kgs, then add the 350 Kgs towball weight of your 3.5 T trailer, reaching 6800 GCM without exceeding your new GVM.

  13. #28

    Re: Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

    Quote Originally Posted by GBC View Post
    ...The Ranger ends up with 300 k.g. to play with at 3500 k.g....
    It might be because it's Friday evening, but those numbers don't seem to add up GBC.

    Seeing as Tojo slipped in a spec change I just looked at the new Ranger specs. Seems that kerb weights have increased from what I could see. Will have to look on the 'puter though, too bloody hard on the phone.

    However, has anyone checked the fine print change to 'required' towball mass? That could be a game changer!

  14. #29

    Re: Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

    Quote Originally Posted by scottar View Post
    The way this works -

    GCM = 6800Kg
    Trailer maximum free standing weight (not on vehicle) is 3500 Kg
    GVM - total allowable weight of the car including any towball weight -3300

    The rule of thumb for towing is that 10% of the loads weight is a good weight to have applied to the towball. If and when the scalies pull you up and weigh you, they weigh with the trailer connected so the weight on the towball will be counted as part of the GVM. This means that without a GVM upgrade, if you are towing 3.5 T and the 10% rule of thumb is relevant to your setup, the most you can pack the car to (prior to trailer attachment) is 2950 Kg making it physically impossible to legally reach the GCM (unless by some freak of nature you manage to get a trailer that tows ok with zero Kg on the towbar..

    This is where the GVM upgrade comes in. With a GVM upgrade of 350 Kg, you can load the car to the full 3300 kgs, then add the 350 Kgs towball weight of your 3.5 T trailer, reaching 6800 GCM without exceeding your new GVM.
    I think you'll find that when towing, any amount more than the vehicles original gvm you decide to add - be it ball weight or beer, will decrease your tow capacity by the same amount to maintain a gcm of 6800.
    If towing less than 3500 kg, you can make good use of the extras a gvm upgrade provides however.
    See the manufacturers blurb above.


    Ranger numbers were from a web site. Happy to stand corrected.

    Edit:
    from west coast suspensions faq's


    Q. Does a GVM upgrade also increase the Gross Combined Mass (GCM)?
    A When a vehicle is also towing a trailer, the GVM is the total mass of the motor vehicle’s wheels on the ground, while the GCM (Gross Combination Mass) is the total mass of the motor vehicle plus trailer. Increasing the GVM does not increase the GCM. In fact if the vehicle is fully loaded to the new increased GVM then the actual towing capacity would be decreased by the amount of the GVM increase. However if the vehicle is only loaded to its original GVM then the GCM is not affected.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    nil carborundum illegitimi

  15. #30

    Re: Looking at buying a new dual cab advise welcomed

    Quote Originally Posted by GBC View Post
    I think you'll find that when towing, any amount more than the vehicles original gvm you decide to add - be it ball weight or beer, will decrease your tow capacity by the same amount to maintain a gcm of 6800.
    If towing less than 3500 kg, you can make good use of the extras a gvm upgrade provides however.
    See the manufacturers blurb above.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The point is that towing 3.5 T and applying the 10% rule of thumb it is impossible to ever reach GCM without exceeding GVM by 350Kg - the towball weight. With a GVM Upgrade, GCM can actually be reached ( At this point the GVM will be 3650Kg - 3300 of its own weight, 350 towball weight ) Total weights - 3300 + 3500 = 6800

    Without the upgrade the maximums will be 2950 of its own, 350 towball (these two add up to maximum allowable GVM) - total weights - 2950 + 3500 = 6450.

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