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  1. #31

    Re: Origin boats??? Gone????

    I was worried about this happening we I got mine built (not through origin) , you can't take ownership until it's registered in your name and to do this it has to have a HIN assigned to it, so basically until it's pretty much finished you don't own anything. Not sure on the method of the governing body that allocates the HIN but surley this could be assigned and welded onto the hull at the start of the build and you could register it in your name. This would mean all work carried out up to date is esentilly yours.The industry needs a regulartory body like the QBCC is to the construction industry to protect buyers, insurance covers you if there are defects or the builder goes broke. However this would add a premium to the cost of the boat. I chose a boat builder that was still on the tools and not to top heavy with to many hands in the till so to speak. I feel for the blokes that have lost there hard earned cash.

  2. #32

    Re: Origin boats??? Gone????

    Stevej I don't know any custom plate boat builders that carry yard stock. I know one plate builder that has a waiting list in excess of a 12 months. I do agree with only a 10 to 15% deposit only, and the balance on completion.
    Maturity is not when we start speaking BIG things,it is when we start understanding small things

  3. #33

    Re: Origin boats??? Gone????

    One of the things I discussed with Steve was the possibility to have all moneys held in trust. Govt contracts specify it and origin offered the possibility on demand. You had to seek it and pay a premium for it but would've been well worth the cost. Its up to the buyer to demand this.
    Its a pity that people don't do an advanced search on here as part of their research when buying custom plate boats.

  4. #34

    Re: Origin boats??? Gone????

    I once purchased a 5m plate open boat from Rebel Boats.

    We went for an on-water demo on another customers boat which was being sea trialled. Then after writing up some details and a couple customisations, I paid $250 deposit.
    The day that the aluminium for my boat arrived, I paid 50% of the purchase price. (I tried to pay this a couple days earlier, but he would not accept it.) Then I paid the balance when the hull was complete and inspected.
    During the build I was welcome to visit on my way home, around 4pm, and see how it was going. All went well and it was a successful purchase.

    It was made very clear to me what I would get for my purchase. It was my responsibility to finish things like the glass bottom underneath the special console.

    Before ordering that boat, I made a brief enquiry with Col Svensson about his 4.9m Fisher model which I had seen advertised. This was just after Queensland Ships went bust and he was up and running making Fisher Boats at Wynnum. (I think he was called Southside Aluminium or something like that at that stage). Scotty was still working with Col, before he split and went on to Bluewater Boats.

    I was asked to pay a few thousand just to get in the queue. Right then. And that was in the first couple of minutes of my enquiry.
    So it was a short conversation. Sure they were nice looking boats , but I chose to buy from my local builder.
    A Proud Member of
    "The Rebel Alliance"

  5. #35
    Ausfish Bronze Member rodneyk's Avatar
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    Jul 2007
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    Re: Origin boats??? Gone????

    Quote Originally Posted by Shark Poker View Post
    I once purchased a 5m plate open boat from Rebel Boats.

    We went for an on-water demo on another customers boat which was being sea trialled. Then after writing up some details and a couple customisations, I paid $250 deposit.
    The day that the aluminium for my boat arrived, I paid 50% of the purchase price. (I tried to pay this a couple days earlier, but he would not accept it.) Then I paid the balance when the hull was complete and inspected.
    During the build I was welcome to visit on my way home, around 4pm, and see how it was going. All went well and it was a successful purchase.

    It was made very clear to me what I would get for my purchase. It was my responsibility to finish things like the glass bottom underneath the special console.

    Before ordering that boat, I made a brief enquiry with Col Svensson about his 4.9m Fisher model which I had seen advertised. This was just after Queensland Ships went bust and he was up and running making Fisher Boats at Wynnum. (I think he was called Southside Aluminium or something like that at that stage). Scotty was still working with Col, before he split and went on to Bluewater Boats.

    I was asked to pay a few thousand just to get in the queue. Right then. And that was in the first couple of minutes of my enquiry.
    So it was a short conversation. Sure they were nice looking boats , but I chose to buy from my local builder.
    Hey shark poker we have seen some sh?t go down in last 15 years or so hey Rod

  6. #36

    Re: Origin boats??? Gone????

    To those that need to know, Col was never the owner of Origin Boats.

    He was a director of the company and resigned about May this year.

    Details of the resignation, the company and other of Col's personal business, is no ones business but his.

    Let's not start throwing stones until you have the facts.

    I sincerely hope that anyone that was having a boat built by Origin get their boat built or financial refunds
    .

    cheers LP
    Kingfisher Painting Solutions:- Domestic and Commercial.

    For further information, contact details, quotes or advice - Click Here





  7. #37

    Re: Origin boats??? Gone????

    It is a bit unrealistic to expect small scale custom builders (1-4 staff) to finance your boat during built. Often these yards will have 3-4 boats on the go at any given time which can easily be $2-300K worth of boats and any given time. Few of the owners of these companies make $100K per year so expecting them to have a spare $300K is unrealistic.

    Some operators are willing/able to operate in a permanent state of debt to either banks or a pool of investors. As a result, buying a boat off these people will typically cost more as they have the added overheads of either interest or dividend payments to make. They are also far more likely to go broke as the cancellation of an order for any reason leaves them looking to sell a boat that has been customized to one personís needs on the open market.

    Others use a limited amount of debt to suppliers (typically 30 day accounts) and try and stay cash positive. The second group will be cheaper, but will typically require progress payments along the way (just like a house). They are unlikely to go broke mid build as most will forgo paying themselves until your boat is finished and they have fewer people who can call in debts in order to send them in receivership.

    Letís look at the breakdown of expenses of a typical 6m build.

    Stage 1. Order placed. Design fee/ royalty to Naval architect.

    Stage 2.
    Aluminium arrives along with a bill for about $12K from supplier.
    Windows and major components ordered $5-10K

    Stage 3. Hot metal work, about 300hours on average $15-20 000K (just in wages and rent) + welding consumables etc.

    Stage 4. Fitout and painting. Another $5-10K in wages, small parts and consumables. A high end full boat paint job by a third part specialist may cost $15K on its own. It is not unusual for clients to spec more in electronics than has been spent in stages 1-3 combined.
    The you have the remaining overheads of insurance etc and the builderís actual profit.

    Stage 5. Trailer/outboard etc are typically billed out separately and you own them as soon as you pay for them.

    If you are genuinely concerned about the financial health of your small custom boat builder make sure you pay your bills on time and donít change your specification after construction commences.
    Further protection can be gained by financing the boat. Even if it is just for the build period. If you make sure there are no penalties for paying the loan off early and the provider has no security other than the boat itself. Then the added cost to you will be quite small and if the yard does go broke it is the bankís problem, not yours.

    Finally do your research. There are more than a few people in the small aluminium boat industry who have a demonstrable history of companies around them going broke.

  8. #38

    Re: Origin boats??? Gone????

    The bank isn't going to write off the debt because the builder went broke. They will still want their money back and there is only one person they will be wanting it from.

  9. #39

    Re: Origin boats??? Gone????

    That's right. You would have to get the builder to finance it and reimburse the builder for any costs incurred as part of the purchase if that's the way you wanted to go. I'm not sure how it work's but my understanding was that the liquidators can only sell the property of the business. Therefore if the builder invoices and you pay for, any materials going into your boat - they are your property and no longer the businesses. The only thing left then is labour. Not sure whether a contract written around those sort of terms would protect you but would be worth getting advise on.
    "I soak the worms in rum. The fish love em and the worms die happy"
    "Alcohol is not the solution to your problems...................but then again, neither is milk"

  10. #40

    Re: Origin boats??? Gone????

    When they built my Axis Col and Richard Pozzey where great to deal with..........I had people on here(Ausfish) PM me telling me not to deal with Origin for one reason or another..........My boat was built and paid for in 3 instalments at different stages of the build and I was well informed prior to those payments and invoiced accordingly.
    The whole build and transaction went very smoothly and trouble free..........considering I live 4000k away and have never met either Col or Richard in person my experience was excellent .

    I hope everyone ends up either getting their boat or their money back......sad to see another quality product go down this path I have been thinking about my next build and was preparing to get in contact with them in the near future.

    Dan
    Confidence.......the feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.

  11. #41

    Re: Origin boats??? Gone????

    I think the problems begin with bankruptcy/administration/receivership laws. There are all sorts of rules and regulations that protect creditor or business owner but very little to protect the consumer.

    There really needs to be a system so that the boat is owned by the customer at every stage. The only period in the process where a customer should be at risk is the time between the initial deposit (which should be the amount the builder has to pay to get the ally to their door) and the final delivery edit (Of the ally).

    1. Deposit gets paid a HIN gets stamped onto the transom and receipt given to customer (Customer now owns hull and should be devoid of any possible proceedings.)
    2. Payment for engines and electronics (Customer now owns hull and engines and electronics)
    3. Final payment. Considering the time between paint and final delivery should be less than 30 days a 30 day account to the painters shouldn't be a problem.

    If a company cant afford to cover the labour costs between start and finish of a build they shouldn't be in business.
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  12. #42

    Re: Origin boats??? Gone????

    When I had my custom boat built back in March I used the 'Personal properties security register.' My builder recommended it and had it included in their ship building contract but was up to myself to register the boat. It was worth it as I had peace of mind throughout the build as it was registered with the government as 'my property' With this in place plus regular photo updates I didn't have a problem with progress payments with the build.

    It would be extremely hard for a small builder funding these larger builds as they run the risk of the customer going broke mid way (losing jobs in the mines overnight) not to mention having 3-4 builds on the go at once which could equate to $700-800k. I was amazed at the difference in deposit sizes from different companies when I was researching, some wanted $20-40k upfront to book me into the slot up to 6months down the track! The more reputable builders offered a more appropriate $1000 booking deposit and first payment (20-30%) became due on the day the ally turned up. Large deposits ring alarm bells for me.

    It is terrible that this has occurred once again, tarnishes the custom boat building industry. Funny how it always seems to revolve around one specific person and group (but let's not go there) I couldn't imagine how I would feel if it happened to me. I hope all involved receive their boats and are not out of pocket. All the best.

  13. #43

    Re: Origin boats??? Gone????

    never hear of builders complaining about customers not turning up

    seems to be dealers/builders shitting on customers

    i just dont think the marine industry is regulated enough and too many cowboys have a go with no buisness sense
    if theres no money to be made why do it

    go take your welding equipment and do something else

  14. #44

    Re: Origin boats??? Gone????

    It happens Steve - along with a whole host of other crap from clients that you don't get to hear about unless you are in the industry.
    "I soak the worms in rum. The fish love em and the worms die happy"
    "Alcohol is not the solution to your problems...................but then again, neither is milk"

  15. #45

    Re: Origin boats??? Gone????

    contracts should cover them
    contracts dont cover the buyer


    if your business cant cop the loss of 20-30k or even 100k then you shouldnt be taking deposits
    how can you honour warranty claims which can add up to these amounts

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