So you think you can tow 3.5t

[banksmister]

Interesting read for those who are unaware.


https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car...kg-tow-rating/

[ozscott]

Interesting. Doesn't surprise me at all that the Disco is by far the best tow vehicle of that pack. There is a lot that goes into a vehicle that can tow heavy even laden up itself. Cheers


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[Darren J]

Interesting that with a full tow load of 3.5t attached, the payload for the new Navara is 489kg, Ranger only 300kg, the Discovery 682kg.
I just double checked the 200 series Landcruiser specs, as they have long been considered the only "real" 3.5t tow vehicle.
A Sahara has a payload of just 580kg (with or without a 3.5t trailer) or up to 710kg (for say the GX).
The dual cab utes are probably not too bad to be getting within 200kg or so on payload (particularly given the price difference), not to mention that the dual cab utes can actually carry about 50% more payload when not towing than a Cruiser or Discovery.

The better respected dual cabs for towing also have a wheelbase about 10% longer than a 200 series cruiser, which can't be a bad thing for towing.

70 Series single cab utes are the pick for payload, 1235kg payload with 3.5t trailer on the back I believe.... bit limited for passengers but!

Reality is, they all need a fair bit of care and thought if your attaching a 3.5t trailer to the back of them....

[Darren J]

another scary thought. The NP300 navara payload is based on Gross Combination mass. In other words, it will take 489kg payload PLUS say 300kg of tow ball weight from a 3.5t trailer in addition, and still not exceed its GVM of 2910kg nor exceed its GCM of 6000kg.

Toyota doesn't set a GCM so I understand their GVM + max trailer towing determines this, without actually having a max. GCM in place. However if a 200 series Cruiser has 300kg of tow ball down load from a 3.5t trailer, it only has 280-410kg of payload left (again depending on which model) before the GVM is exceeded. It actually gives them a lesser payload than some of the dual cab utes, even the rangers crappy 300kg when towing at 3.5t beats a LC200 Sahara.

Same logic applies to a Discovery, which has a payload of 382kg left in the tow vehicle after it has 300kg put on the tow ball.... not much.

A GVM upgrade on any of the vehicles with a max GCM set does not increase the GCM, so really does't help them when towing at full 3.5t capacity. The Toyotas however may gain from this as they do not set a GCM on their vehicles. They are simply GVM plus maximum towing weight. So I believe a GVM increase (like you can easily get from say ARB) on a Cruiser does by default increase the combined maximum capacity of car and trailer.


Of the 3500kg rated vehicles, it actually leaves a vehicle payload, with a 3.5t trailer attached, after 300kg tow ball down load is applied of:

79 series single cab 935kg (plus any GVM upgrades if done)
79 series dual cab 785kg (plus any GVM upgrades if done)
Dmax 510kg
NP300 Navara 489kg
New Patrol 395-485kg depending on model (plus any GVM upgrades if done)
Colorado 425kg
LC200 Land Cruiser 280-410kg depending on model (plus any GVM upgrades if done)
Discovery 382kg
Ranger 300kg

These do not consider rear axle load limitations if given for a vehicle...

The Dmax and Navara do well out of the dual cabs simply because the base vehicle weight is a bit lighter than say a ranger... I am not sure the numbers clearly represent the "best" tow vehicle, but either way that is what they mean as far as ability to load gear and tow your 3.5t boat at the same time. The Dmax would probably be the last of the dual cabs I would want to attach a 3.5t boat to, but it rates well.

All of course only relevant if your trying to tow close to the 3.5t limit.

We either need smaller boats or F trucks...

[Luke G]

3800kg GVM on my 200 series, gives me plenty of breathing space

[Darren J]

3800kg GVM on my 200 series, gives me plenty of breathing space

Has that got a GVM upgrade? If so where/how was it done

[Luke G]

Yep got it done off my own back, king remote res setup.

[Greg P]

LC200 issue is well known I thought. Doesn't take much to be over without the GVM upgrade.

Too bad we won't see those new alloy body F150s - very impressive towing and payload numbers.

[gofishin]

Interesting read for those who are unaware.

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car...kg-tow-rating/

It's good to see this sort of stuff is finally being talked about and discussed in the media and on motoring sites etc.

A few years ago I was in the same boat, and there was really nothing available at all, so I compiled some info myself, and also posted here...

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/sho...d.php?t=195161

...So I believe a GVM increase (like you can easily get from say ARB) on a Cruiser does by default increase the combined maximum capacity of car and trailer...

Yes, when a GCM is not provided by 'the manufacturer', this is 100% correct.

There have been quite a few threads/posts over the last few years about this subject, here is one of mine I pulled from an old thread... (saves re typing )

...Forgetting about the legalities of Over-widthTowing for the minute…

The LC200 may indeed have the ‘physical’ capability to tow 3500kg with ease gents, but don’t forget about its abysmal payload capacity (in standard guise), as this restricts your ability to shed boat payload into the vehicle, in fact even to load the vehicle up with people to half the 8 seat capacity when towing @ max Tow Rating!

Toyota do not specify a GCM for the LC200, therefore as per ADR’s it can ‘Legally’ be loaded up to its GVM (including any vertical load on the coupling joint) and it can tow a trailer loaded equal to or less than the towing vehicle's ‘Rated Towing Capacity’.

Example: LC200 GVM is 3350kg. Kerb mass for the GXL TTD is 2630kg (full of fuel), which gives a total of payload capacity of 3350-2630 = 720kg EXCLUDING any options/accessories, tow bar!,WDH, people, cargo AND tow ball down load.

Assume your BMT has a total (ATM) mass of 3500kg, i.e. right on the limit. Note: any vehicle’s tow capacity is the ATM of the towed load, not the axle load(s),i.e. not GTM. This is ‘Law’ but is sometimes confusing in vehicle manufacturer's literature as a lot of them don’t use the correct/ADR definitions!

Lets also assume:
Tow ball down load = 350kg (i.e. 10%, pretty common with Aussy trailers)
Accessories/options including; towbar/WDH =25kg
Bull bar, rubber mats, roof rack, spotties etc = 40kg
3 x people @80kg each = 240kg
Cargo luggage = 50kg

Your spare payload capacity in your LC200 GXL will be: 720-350-25-40-240-50=15kg! Yes 15kg! If you have the VX or the Sahara it won't be legal due to their increased Kerb mass!

With the right trailer/design you can drop the ball load to say 7% and gain another 105kg of vehicle payload “legally”, but with the trailers you are talking about you will need to do this at the design stage!

Your other option is for a proper GVM upgrade for the LC200, including Engineer’s Certificate and new Vehicle Plates and Rego changes etc. There are two that I know of; Lovells @ 3800kg GVM and ARB @ 3580kg GVM. These won’t help if your 3500kg??? BMT has too much fuel in it, but at least you can possibly unload some gear into the truck and still be legal - maybe!

Transport Authority ‘mobile’ weight checks at boat ramps in southern states are very common nowadays, so you would think it is only a matter of time before we get them here….

Regards
Brendon

PS. it's been a few years since I posted these, so quite possibly some specs may have changed since!




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[Darren J]

LC200 issue is well known I thought. Doesn't take much to be over without the GVM upgrade.

I never really looked closely at them. I was just repeatedly told by many people over the last 4-5 years that if you want to tow 3.5t a cruiser is all that will do it. Dual cab utes are a waste of time.

My current dual cab has been suitably set up and tows to 3t extremely well, contrary to the advice of many when it was new. So in looking a little closer at the limitations on the later 3.5t dual cabs, I looked at cruisers again only to be surprised that standard they were worse, even without having a GCM applied. I known of a few Cruisers towing 2400 Kevlacats that are definitely over their GVM every day of the week. I am also convinced that the long wheel bases on some of the dual cabs helps in towing.
I know of a cruiser that was cut and extended form a wagon to dual cab/tray. The chassis extension improved towing...

[madmaskbass]

Definitely a case of marketing pressure passing safety and practicality margins. One thing not mentioned is longevity. .i shudder thinking about buying one second hand after a few years of towing on our roads...and of course boat and caravan industries are always pushing weight as a consideration on purchase. Yeah right!

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[macka17]

Hi.

The figures for vehicles towing. In this country. Are contrary to most other country's in the world.
Check them.

This is about the only country where they "recommend" to tow more than the vehicle weight of the towing vehicle. The manufacturers mainly.

Primarily because most of the caravan retirees etc want the biggest van with the biggest interior (Read crap inside of it.

And NONE of the Australian manufacturers/Importers. make or import a vehicle that will tow
"safely" the loads their items weigh LEGALLY.

With a car drivers licence.

Hence they boost the allowable weights that their vehicles are allowed to tow. and the Gov't does nothing about it.

Nobody should be towing MORE than the road weight of their tug. If they want road safety in ALL (as near as possible) conditions.

3 1\2 ton trailer with 350kg drawbar. should theoretically be behind a roughly 4 to 4.5ton tug. with carrying capacity to cover drawbar plus occupants plus normal travelling gear and maybe a tinny on top with it's ancilliaries inside too.
The bigger the weight/size of the tow. The larger the variation of the two should be.

I towed a 6.5mtr 2.2ton tare caravan with normally around 350/400kg inside 3 to 4months at a atime. with a 2002 3 ltr Patrol with chip 2 in lift and snorkel etc. Upgraded coils and shockers/mounts.
Solid flywheel and Safari clutch. Full Syntheitic oils.

Vehicle. with load, and 3.75mtr Tinny on top, plus ancilliaries went over weighbridge every time at around 3.2 ton. Caravan (empty water tanks) 2.7ton. Combined 6.2ish ton depending on water in tanks
Never changed much over the 12 or so yrs I used them.

That 1\2 ton variation gave me peace of mind. Knowing most times the tug controlled the tow.
Specially being a long wheelbase with weight distributed over whole chassis and susp/tyres.

UNLIKE a ute.
with 70/75% over front and 25/30% over rear wheels/tyres.

Utes. Unless fully loaded reasonably spread over whole vehicle. never had. nor ever will have.
the "grip" on the road that a "normal" style vehicle does.
They not built that way.
Extra chassis length. when it light on at rear, only makes them more unreliable, grip wise.
believe me. that goes for 50 ton trucks as well.

Nowadays I've changed/updated my Patrol to a 2010 3 ltr D-Max Auto. dual cab
with a 16ft 6in Evernew single axle van. Road weight around 1.6 / 1.7ton.
Ute around 2.5ton with tinny on top etc.

Even tow balance. Much more mentally comfortable while doing it.

I've driven a few rigs and towed a few trailers etc over the 50plus yrs in different country's I've held my commercial licences.
Seen a few accidents. some unavoidable. some self inflicted and some "can't helpable".
IE. Rig set up wrongly for road safety in all conditions.

All I can say is.
Look on the net a little away from Australian car and caravan mfg bullshit.
and see what really is safe and comfortable to use and carry your family around in.

A modern Australian sold ute. Usable with a CAR licence...

with anything more than 2.5ish tonon the back of.

Is NOT one of them believe me..

Ask any sensible experienced commercial driver with a few miles under his belt.

[Haji-Baba]

Macka 17 is spot on.

I am of the opinion that the towed vehicle should not weigh more than 80% of the loaded tow unit.

In the case of most dual cab type utes, has anyone had a close look at the end of the chassis where the you beaut tow bar is fixed. Bl. pi. weak.

Have a good look sometime and then think about 350 kg. download on that hitch and the thickness of the "chassis rail" to which it is fixed.

O and do a measurement from the center of the rear axel to the tow ball.

Excessive length is added incentive for the tail wagging the dog.

Any over weight or excessive poor loading of a van or boat will soon be apparent.

And in the case of big boats how many actually have weight distribution hitches fitted in an attempt to spread the load over both axels.

And boat trailer brakes behind a lightweight tow vehicle, let's not go there.


Enjoy the twin cab utes, they are pretty good but in my opinion not really up to the requirement to tow 3.5 tonnes.

Have fun Haji-Baba

[Feral]

Doesn't say you cant tow 3 1/2 tonne, you might have to be wearing nothing but your jocks, and take the seat covers off though
Be different when these big yank light trucks start hitting the market in a big way, some of them are rated to tow a lot more.

[GBC]

What a load of sh!t.

Does it easier than the 3.5 Canter which lives in the shed now because everyone wants to tow it with the ute. It's been doing this for 2 years now.

Better wake Archimedes up, someone wants to argue lever theory with him.