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  1. #121

    Re: Re-power Cruisemaster 700 with diesel

    If you are using epoxy then just use that to seal them but if you are going to glass over the top then that is sealing them as well. If you seal them first you will have to sand them back before glassing over the top. I would just stay with ply. Also Marine ply is a waste of money, just use exterior B/C grade as by the time you glass over it you will have the same product.
    Remember to always log on before heading offshore.

  2. #122
    Ausfish Silver Member brett62's Avatar
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    Caboolture
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    Re: Re-power Cruisemaster 700 with diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by ozynorts View Post
    If you are using epoxy then just use that to seal them but if you are going to glass over the top then that is sealing them as well. If you seal them first you will have to sand them back before glassing over the top. I would just stay with ply. Also Marine ply is a waste of money, just use exterior B/C grade as by the time you glass over it you will have the same product.
    Thanks for that. Would I just use epoxy as glue for the ply as I laminate and screw ?

  3. #123
    Ausfish Bronze Member
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    Mar 2015
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    Kalbarri, WA

    Re: Re-power Cruisemaster 700 with diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by ozynorts View Post
    If you are using epoxy then just use that to seal them but if you are going to glass over the top then that is sealing them as well. If you seal them first you will have to sand them back before glassing over the top. I would just stay with ply. Also Marine ply is a waste of money, just use exterior B/C grade as by the time you glass over it you will have the same product.
    I would STRONGLY DISAGREE with that statement. Put as much glass or resin as you like over construction ply and you will NEVER have the same product as marine ply. Do you even understand what marine ply is? It is a product which is formulated for the construction of timber boats, no glassing involved. Whole boats built of it, constantly immersed, lasting for many decades. Try doing that with any construction ply and see how you go. Wouldn't last a year. It is when boat builders started doing dodges with cheap ply in transoms and floors that the problem with glass boats rotting out these components started.

  4. #124

    Re: Re-power Cruisemaster 700 with diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by ranmar850 View Post
    I would STRONGLY DISAGREE with that statement. Put as much glass or resin as you like over construction ply and you will NEVER have the same product as marine ply. Do you even understand what marine ply is? It is a product which is formulated for the construction of timber boats, no glassing involved. Whole boats built of it, constantly immersed, lasting for many decades. Try doing that with any construction ply and see how you go. Wouldn't last a year. It is when boat builders started doing dodges with cheap ply in transoms and floors that the problem with glass boats rotting out these components started.
    That may have been the case in the past but the timber used in marine ply these days is no different to that used in regular ply. The only real difference now is in the glue that is used to bond it together.
    if the ply wasn't going to be encased in resin and glass then yes use another product but in this case it is going to be completely sealed.
    Remember to always log on before heading offshore.

  5. #125

    Re: Re-power Cruisemaster 700 with diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by brett62 View Post
    Thanks for that. Would I just use epoxy as glue for the ply as I laminate and screw ?
    Add a product called Cabosil to the resin until it has a consistency of jam and use that. The Cabosil is a glue powder.
    Remember to always log on before heading offshore.

  6. #126
    Ausfish Bronze Member
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    Kalbarri, WA

    Re: Re-power Cruisemaster 700 with diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by ozynorts View Post
    That may have been the case in the past but the timber used in marine ply these days is no different to that used in regular ply. The only real difference now is in the glue that is used to bond it together.
    if the ply wasn't going to be encased in resin and glass then yes use another product but in this case it is going to be completely sealed.
    yes, but will it be completely sealed? all those boat builders that thought they could get away with cheap ply took that reasoning, too--but transoms and decks have a way of gaining holes over the years, no? The glue used to laminate has always been the main point of difference--unless you are using vast quantities of the stuff, you have be a real cheap arse to worry about the cost difference. When I re-did the screwed-in deck of my Navigator 600, I used marine ply, and that will see the boat out,unlike the original stuff which had rotted and softened. Marine ply is designed to be constantly immersed with only primer paint for protection--quite a few old commercial bondwood hulls over here were Dynelled later in life, but that was only to give a really smooth surface to lay anti-fouling on, after the battering the undersides had taken for twenty years or more had roughened the surface, making them draggy. These were planing hulls.

  7. #127
    Ausfish Platinum Member bigjimg's Avatar
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    Moorooka, Brisbane.

    Re: Re-power Cruisemaster 700 with diesel

    Marine Plywood in Australia and stamped with the PAA stamp is F14 and complies AS/NZS. If not sealed it will rot, because it is wood just like Construction Ply.
    The difference between the 2 types is Marine Ply uses selected species known for their structural properties and have an A grade face on both sides.
    We all know about Construction Ply don't we......well anyway unless you buy F14 you may be getting just what the hardware has in stock and that will most likely be F7.
    The 2 plywoods in question both use the same glue system Phenolic A type glue.
    If I were replacing a transom I would use Marine Ply as it would only cost 30-40% more and in the grand scheme of things considering its where you want strength the extra cost would be arbitrary. Construction ply will have voids within where knots used to be and shrinkage splits all covered over by the overlaying veneers.
    Not worth it trying to save a few buck here and there with ply in my opinion.

    Just remember all Plywood needs to be sealed properly, just because it has Marine used in its name doesn't mean it won't rot.

    Cheers
    Jim
    Haines Signature "FinaLeigh" 580F 135 Optimax
    CH 81 & 72 VHF

  8. #128

    Re: Re-power Cruisemaster 700 with diesel

    Here is a good rundown on the different ply grades and the standards. Note that there are 2 standards for marine ply, one is Australian and one is UK.
    http://boatcraft.com.au/informationp...n_overview.htm
    Remember to always log on before heading offshore.

  9. #129
    Ausfish Silver Member brett62's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
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    Caboolture
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    Re: Re-power Cruisemaster 700 with diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by ozynorts View Post
    Here is a good rundown on the different ply grades and the standards. Note that there are 2 standards for marine ply, one is Australian and one is UK.
    http://boatcraft.com.au/informationp...n_overview.htm
    Well I learnt something new today about ply. thanks for the link.

  10. #130
    Ausfish Silver Member brett62's Avatar
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    Re: Re-power Cruisemaster 700 with diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by bigjimg View Post
    Marine Plywood in Australia and stamped with the PAA stamp is F14 and complies AS/NZS. If not sealed it will rot, because it is wood just like Construction Ply.
    The difference between the 2 types is Marine Ply uses selected species known for their structural properties and have an A grade face on both sides.
    We all know about Construction Ply don't we......well anyway unless you buy F14 you may be getting just what the hardware has in stock and that will most likely be F7.
    The 2 plywoods in question both use the same glue system Phenolic A type glue.
    If I were replacing a transom I would use Marine Ply as it would only cost 30-40% more and in the grand scheme of things considering its where you want strength the extra cost would be arbitrary. Construction ply will have voids within where knots used to be and shrinkage splits all covered over by the overlaying veneers.
    Not worth it trying to save a few buck here and there with ply in my opinion.

    Just remember all Plywood needs to be sealed properly, just because it has Marine used in its name doesn't mean it won't rot.

    Cheers
    Jim
    Hi Jim, I will be using marine ply as I really don't need much and the price difference is not much and being a hard wood veneer one would assume you will need less resin to seal then other ply so probably works out the same cost in the end.

  11. #131
    Ausfish Silver Member brett62's Avatar
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    Re: Re-power Cruisemaster 700 with diesel

    Picked up a sheet of 18 mm marine ply today and continued sanding and prepping which is now completed and ready to start the timber work for the new beds. Gave the boat a good wash out to get the sanding dust out which has taken most of the afternoon. What a crap job that was and glad it's over.

    Have another question for the fiberglass people about the cut out for the drive in the stern. I want to seal this better than just putting what looks like flow coat over bare timber. My plan is to drill the holes out bigger and then fill with epoxy mixed with glass fiber and the cut out I was going to sand the old stuffed flow coat off and epoxy a couple layer of glass mat with a coat of flow coat over the top. Or would just putting several epoxy resin coats be better. Water has gotten in this area down at the bottom and I will need to dig out any damaged timber and replace but it just seems to be right at the bottom. The cause of this was simply that the boat had no bung in the stern so water was always sitting in the bilge. The water was about 50 mm above the bottom of the transom bracket and I don't have to tell you what that did.

  12. #132

    Re: Re-power Cruisemaster 700 with diesel

    If the timber in the holes is ok just mix up epoxy resin and Cabosil mix and use an ear bud and liberally cover the exposed timber. Once cured you can carefully re drill.
    For the big cutout, once you have cleaned out all of the rotten timber, get a piece of ply the right size and shape, smear a good quantity of the resin/cabosil mix in there and put in your new ply. Make sure it is secured until it cures. You can also seal the exposed timber of the cutout at the same time. Obviously make sure that you have a nice clean surface. Once cured you may have to sand away any sharp edges or dags that are sticking up. You won't need to flowcoat over it but if you want to make sure you sand with 60 grit to remove the wax finish and key the surface, only use 1% catalyst in the flow coat and give it a nice thick coat.


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    Remember to always log on before heading offshore.

  13. #133
    Ausfish Silver Member brett62's Avatar
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    Re: Re-power Cruisemaster 700 with diesel

    Well getting on with the engine beds. Laminated the ply and shaped for the incline and epoxy glued in place today. Found it interesting that the mercruiser sat level on the old beds and the steyr engine jig was telling me that the beds require to be on a incline of 2.5 deg's for shaft alignment. Not sure how the mercruiser was setup as I didn't take a great deal of notice if the engine mounts had tapered packers before Jim pull it out for me. Also interesting that the mercrusier drives are to suit a 13-15 deg stern and after measuring the boat it has a 17 deg stern. So I have no idea how good the mercruiser shaft alignment was ? I will pick up the engine jig again from Steyr and just double check all the measurements and then remove the transom bracket and do the repairs and sealing around the cut out

    Finally got to removing the old electrical wires and components around the stern with only a couple of items left to remove tomorrow. Next step is to make the new bulkhead and glue in place and fill a few holes in the stern and engine bay. The plan is to get everything glued in before I go back to work and then hit the fiber glassing next time home.

    Started removing all the electrics from the helm and I am sorry Mr Whittley but your pretty dash area is heading to the tip (well most of it), Have had Moose looking at some electrics for me and we have been throwing ideas around on how we can fit all the toys in this dash and I was really holding back on changing the dash due to the amount of work it would take and to tell you the truth I really don't need anymore projects on this boat. I know Moose was pushing this way and he is right, I have another project now re-doing the dash which can join the long list. Moose if you read this thanks for the time you have given me and will send you a plan of attack and also the toys that will be going in for you to look at. As you can see from the photo it's not user friendly for installing the electrics we have these days and needs a full rehash.

    Picked up a borescope yesterday to start checking all the under deck compartments for water and I haven't got to that science project yet but it wont be a surprise as I removed the battery mounting trays for the house battery's to find a rather large hole that was actually built into the boat for some reason I can't workout. It may be to get access to the trim tab that may-be bolted through the hull not sure but will find out once I go to remove them.

    I was going over the outside of the hull today and noticed cracks in the gelcoat at the bow both sides from the chine heading up towards the gunnel where the rope locker bulkhead is situated. Well I have crawled and probed this boat for the past 3 years and never noticed this before. They don't look to be just stress cracks either so I will have to do some investigating later. I told myself to just start at the stern and work my way forward as I am jumping all over the place and getting very frustrated. I think I may be just depressed from scratching myself for the pass 10 days from sanding fiberglass and need a Led Zepplin and rum night.


    IMG_20170912_184031.jpgIMG_20170912_184053.jpgIMG_20170912_183955.jpg

  14. #134

    Re: Re-power Cruisemaster 700 with diesel

    Looking good mate, but I'd be looking in those nooks and crannies before you go any further. You don't want to be doing things twice!

  15. #135

    Re: Re-power Cruisemaster 700 with diesel

    Things they don't tell you at "boat refit school" - they always take longer than expected, they always cost more than budgeted and there will always be more to do than first thought. Be worth it in the end though - stay strong. Looking good so far.
    "I soak the worms in rum. The fish love em and the worms die happy"
    "Alcohol is not the solution to your problems...................but then again, neither is milk"

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