Reply With QuoteI put Bilsteins and king springs on my 03 V8 and tow an Outback Expanda 16 with it and doesn't miss a beat. Quality is quality. Just came back from 10 days at Fraser and car was awesome again with and without van.
Dave
Getting the truck beefed up for cape trip next year.
Anyone recommend a 2 inch suspension kit for the IFS model.
So many to choose from out there and very hard to make a selection. Looking at ARB, TJM and EFS so far.
Any thoughts or recommendations??
Cheers
Waz
I put Bilsteins and king springs on my 03 V8 and tow an Outback Expanda 16 with it and doesn't miss a beat. Quality is quality. Just came back from 10 days at Fraser and car was awesome again with and without van.
Dave
This mob gets a huge wrap on lcool.org -
http://www.auto-craft.com.au/origina...es/Page435.htm
Ships anywhere.
Looking at the platinum kit when mine needs it..
Kids who Hunt and Fish, Don't Deal and Steal.
Copied -
"OK, there are many aspects to setting up the IFS 100, so smoke em if youve got em,
the 100 is a funny animal in the front, and there are afew parameters you cant overstep when setting one up, without causing other issues. We do afew a week, and it is the most common vehicle for us to work on currently or fit equipment to, in the workshop.
The average 100 we fit out for touring the country, normally goes somewhere between 3.6 and 4.2 tonne fully loaded for car only campers, for doing bigger trips like the Madigan line, or the Canning, or the Cape, and many we do for towing big vans are somewhere between 7 and 8 tonne fully loaded on the road [I dont endorse it, but we weigh many, when setting up, as down weight on tow ball, total car weight etc, are all important when setting a vehicle up]
With the Bilstein Platinum kit we use on the 100, our rear shocks are as long as they can be and still keep the coil captive, and the fronts are longer to allow the diff drop to be worth while, whilst maintaining a minimum amount of droop in the front.
The 100 has to have at least 70mm of droop from ride height to protect the shocks and stop then topping out all the time, and this is the limiting factor for lifting one normally, to maintain that.
The second factor is lift in the front, when to high, when accelerating, like off from the lights, when the front end then toe pulls as you accelerate and lifts in the front, and tries to drive over the front wheels as they scrub on the road, making it lift more, and on it goes. The more gear on or in the back, the worse it can be.
With 16"rims [add 12mm for 17"rims or 25mm for 18"rims] from the very bottom edge of the rim where it meets the tyre, up through the centre of the wheel to the fender edge the 100 is 720mm at the front and 775mm rear. In the front with longer shocks like the bilsteins you can go to 775mm if diff drop fitted, in the front, before the lift tyre scrub issue surfaces, and we normally end up between 810-830mm in the rear [depending on load, accessories, and coils chosen] the factory rear coils will drop 20mm + for every 100kg you add to the rear, and our HD coils drop less than 10mm for every 100kg added.
When we use the Fox Shox which are slightly longer again, we go to 790mm front and with our slinky coils in the rear it goes 830-850mm on 16"rims.
The highest you can go without causing issues in the front without a diff drop is 750mm.
We have had trucks in here that have been set up elsewhere, running more than that, that are doing cv boots every 20,000km or less, that have required the issue fixed.
The cv boots cannot rub on itself in the straight ahead position, at ride height.
It should also be noted that adjusting torsion bars is like adding a coil packer, it will change the ride height, but it wont change the spring rate. Standard torsion bars are too soft for a loaded vehicle, and you can add heavier torsion bars to a standard vehicle, and it will improve the ride quality.
When adjusting the T bars, on a TD 5 turns of the adjuster will raise or lower the vehicles front 20mm, or part there of [2.5 turns = 10mm] and on a V8 4 turns is 20mm of adjustment, but in both cases, 10 turns wont be 40mm of adjustment. [it just isnt]
Rockcrawler make an even stiffer torsion bar than most common ones, but we have seen 3 trucks with broken adjuster fingers on the back of the T bar mount, that have been running these heavier T bars. A very hard thin to try and weld, or fix, in the bush, or in the desert.
Now, the design of the front lower arm is such, that when it strikes the bump stop, it tries to let the wheel continue up, putting pressure on the join of the 2 halves of the arm, with the bump stop closer to the pivot point, than the wheel, that it can crack the weld, then tear along the path of least resistance, until it reaches the torsion bar mounting hole, breaking the cast torsion bar mouting, or to the a arm pivot bolt, making the truck drop to the bump stop when it does. We remove the arms and weld them internally, and weld plates externally, to prevent this from happening. The ARB bolt on plates from what we have seen, dont stop it cracking, but stop it from sitting on the bump stop for a little while, until the flexing of the bracket fatigues it enough to break as well, after the arm is broken, but you can see the beginning of the arm cracking, if the plates are bolted on, without removing them. Thats why welding them and stopping it from being able to happen, was what we considered the best option.
On AHC cruisers, we normally lift those 40mm, [doesnt sound like much, but they self level, so add weight, it wont change, unlike coils] and normally AHC will take 170kg per axle before going to default low setting on the suspension, and with the t bars and coils we add to an AHC vehicle, it will take an additional 200kg per axle before doing so. The AHC also changes the shock valving, when the height changes, so setting one up with changed height, and spring rates can be tricky, but there is a set formula for it, and if it goes wrong, whilst you try and do it, Toyota have one machine in the country you can wait to have shipped to your dealer to adjust the system settings to fix it, and they normally charge between $550 and $1000 depending on the dealer, so dont try it at home......
We also have an over ride unit which will keep your vehicle on the high setting, when engaged, unless its overloaded, but long distance driving with this isnt recommended, unless its wheel aligned at the full height.
AHC ride height LR tank, winch, bull bar, Canning trip.
Fox long travel kit ride height loaded desert trip on 35's.
Fox long travel kit wheel travel
Bilstein Platinum kit ride height.
The Fox Long travel kit we do requires extended sway bar links, bump stop spacers in the rear, and is designed around running 35"tyres with this set up, whilst maximising the available travel, whilst improving handling.
The next thing the 100 IFS needs to be set up, is wheel alignment, and its setting can depend on tyre size, height, weight, to be specific to each vehicle, and has to be set correctly to prevent torque steer when lifted. Will go into this further, in another post shortly.
Once you have the required height set up for the front of the 100, with IFS, then getting the proper wheel alignment setting to prevent torque steer, and stop it wanting to wear the outer edge of the front left is a bit of a balancing act, and when at 775mm [from description in previous post] you should have enough adjustment to get the wheel alignment setings where required, and with the Fox kit, should just get there on castor.
With manual models, or H.O kits fitted to up the kw and torque of the engine, once they have some 4wding, and km under thier belts, replacing the lower inner a arm bushes, and the steering rack bushes improves the steering feel, and prevents the movement the worn factory bushes allow fore and aft, that the front whels can generate, when accelerating, and braking.
We find the Super Pro bushes for this particular application, very good.
The standard rack bushes allow the steering rack to move up to 12mm, before it passes anything back through the steering, wheel, so by the time torque steer is happening, its already got a run up on your grip on the steering wheel.
Changing the upper a arm bushes on the normal lift like the Bilstein set ups also helps keep toe pull under acceleration, and wheel alignment spec closer to desired numbers.
For the Fox Long Travel kit, we use a different front upper A arm, which gives us our wheel alignment adjustment back, and gives some more room to the ball joint area for 35"tyres as well, and uses smaller bushes for the top inner mounts, to also prevent excessive movement of the top arm effecting wheel alignment numbers, and handling, whilst allowing more downtravel, if the shock is long enough.
The uniball type ball joints are available in many different guises and price brackets, and the better the quality, the more reliable long term they are over some of the cheaper nylon seat models, and the good ones are also easily rebuildable, though offer a good long term service life in extreme use.
"
_________________
Kids who Hunt and Fish, Don't Deal and Steal.
Advice on lcool seems to be that even 2 inches is too much lift in the front of the IFS without a diff drop (unless you're happy to routinely destroy CV's). Diff drops probably aren't legal in qld but I've certainly seen a few around.
I'm also looking for a small lift in my IFS - front is sagging a bit now after 170,000 kms and heavy batteries and steel bar up front.
Pick Ron's brain at Driveline Services, Archerfield. http://www.driveline.com.au/product/...4wd/suspension
They have a 100 series in their company fleet which has been around the continent a couple of times.
Nice write up Triple.........
I did a 50mm lift in my old 03V8 Hundjie with Bilsteins Kings in the rear and the Tough Dog Torsion Bars.......and the front diff drop aswell.....Bilsteins certainly do make for a comfortable ride compared to other shocks/struts.
In the 200 I have also gone with the 50mm lift but this time went Dobinson Coils allround and EFS shock/strut combo and to tell you the truth I find it pretty good a little waggy in the tail on the gravel un-loaded but I did go the 200kg constant load rated spring in the rear.........Also I have not had the steering issues others have suffered funnily after the lift but I do need to look at some after market UCA's to give me back a little camber as it is at max alighnment with the stockies in there........Hey Triple where the best deal on those baby's..??
I'd be following Triples advice mate as he seems to have answered your question and gone into great detail........basicly what he posted took me a month or so of Google to find out about a few years ago.
Dan
Confidence.......the feeling you get before you fully understand the situation.
Triple i don't this bloke from a bar of soap but he is not putting you wrong i think you could do allot worse
G.R.Hill 60 series Admin.
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