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Thread: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

  1. #16
    Ausfish Silver Member
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    Re: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

    Hi Slider quite "Large Haul of Mullet and Tailor" netted on Moreton Island in the past few days. Also Spaniards just can't resist a Trolled Tailor they"re just irrisistable. Hey GM Bluewater, would'nt you, just be able to ask the Italians Bros on Fraser, how the Past Few Spanish Mackeral seasons been going.

  2. #17

    Re: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

    Received this media release yesterday by the Minister for Fisheries - the latest assessment of species' sustainability in Qld's fisheries.

    Notable is that tailor have been specifically mentioned as being sustainably fished, but coral trout have been downgraded from sustainably fished to 'uncertain' due to low catches and catch rates. Snapper are still of concern due to recreational and commercial catches remaining low by historical standards.

    This confuses me. We have commercial catches of tailor that have gone through the floor in 2011/12 and recreational anglers are universally reporting great difficulty in finding tailor during this same period and the species has 'shrunk'. If catch rates compared to historical standards are a suitable gauge for snapper and trout to be deemed 'overfished' and 'uncertain', how are tailor then deemed to be sustainably fished? Especially when recreational snapper catches appear to be not too bad. To my way of thinking, this discrepancy throws doubt on what we are being told about each and every species that has been 'assessed' - like grey mackerel now being 'sustainably' fished when previously 'undefined'. Are we being fed some more propaganda?

    I like this one - "Mr Mcveigh said the assessment of Qld's fisheries showed they were some of most sustainably fished in the world thanks to stringent fishery management arrangements". So stringent in fact that we hadn't actually noticed that tailor populations had collapsed!


    Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry
    The Honourable John McVeigh


    Key Queensland fish assessed for sustainability
    The latest stock status report from the Queensland Government has rated 31 of the state’s key fish species as sustainable, up from 28 in 2011.
    Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry John McVeigh said the assessment was based on analysis of commercial and recreational fishing catch, scientific monitoring and research.
    “A comprehensive range of assessment tools are used including biological information on fish populations (e.g. age, length), commercial fishing logbooks, recreational catch estimates, and reviews by external scientists,” Mr McVeigh said.
    “In the report, 75 key commercial and recreational fishing species were selected for scientific assessment of which 31 rated as sustainably fished included three fish that are underutilised as a resource. Examples of sustainable fish include barramundi, Spanish mackerel, dusky flathead and tailor.”
    Mr McVeigh said only one fish stock continued to be cause for concern.
    “Snapper, one of our most popular commercial and recreational fish species, was again classified as overfished,” he said.
    “Commercial and recreational catches of snapper remain low by historical standards.
    “While the recreational possession limit of snapper was reduced in late 2011, the long-lived nature of the species means it will take significant time before the effect of the management changes are realised.
    “We have stepped up the monitoring of snapper to better understand its status, including improved monitoring of snapper catches and an independent survey of juvenile snapper in Moreton Bay.
    “In a few years we’ll repeat the full stock assessment for snapper using the updated information we’re collecting now to give us greater confidence about the assessment result, and to see the effect of the changed management arrangements.”
    Mr McVeigh said the assessment of Queensland’s fisheries showed they were some of the most sustainably fished in the world thanks to stringent fisheries management arrangements.
    “Assessments like this stock status report are critical to monitoring usage of our fisheries resources for long-term sustainability,” he said.
    “By highlighting any gaps in information, we can put processes in place to gather data on these stocks for future assessments.
    “Most fishers in Queensland do the right thing, but we encourage all fishers to ensure they are up-to-date with the rules so we can continue to fish sustainably.”
    Key changes in stock status are:

    • Spanish mackerel in the Gulf of Carpentaria moved from ‘uncertain’ to ‘sustainably fished’
    • Balmain bugs, grey mackerel (east coast stock) and northern king prawns moved from ‘undefined’ to ‘sustainably fished’
    • Coral trout moved from ‘sustainable fished’ to ‘uncertain’ due to low catches and catch rates
    • Blue swimmer crab moved from ‘sustainably fished’ to ‘uncertain’ due to declining catch
    A stock assessment for coral trout is underway, and the first stock assessment for blue swimmer crab is planned as a result of the changes to their stock status.
    The summary report on Queensland’s 2012 fish stock status is available online at www.fisheries.qld.gov.au and the full report to be published in the coming months.
    [ENDS] 13 June 2013
    Media Contact: Louise Gillis - 0408 709 160

  3. #18

    Re: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

    Unfortunately McVeigh has no idea what he is doing with fisheries and really does not care. His main interest is farming and agriculture.

    He is happy to sign the garbage printed for him by the fisheries managers who are simply ensuring their ongoing dynasty. If they admit there is a problem they have to do something and they might have to admit there has been a problem for some time on their watch.

    If the say there is no problem then they can keep filling out their nondescript reports and keep their jobs and keep warming their seats.

  4. #19

    Re: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by manta man View Post
    Hey GM Bluewater, would'nt you, just be able to ask the Italians Bros on Fraser, how the Past Few Spanish Mackeral seasons been going.
    I know how the last few seasons out of Waddy Point have gone, just putting it out there for others that fish a little further south. And you can't beat a fresh Tailor being towed for Spaniards, about the only thing they are good for!

  5. #20

    Re: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

    Just for you GM - the attached is commercially line caught spanish from Sandy Cape to Moreton Bay. Encompasses grids W32, W34, W35, W36 & W37.

    Spanish taken from W34 & W35 in 2012 was 5 tonne - is all the data I have for spaniards in 2012.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  6. #21

    Re: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

    Article in tomorrow's Sunshine Coast Daily on this for those interested.

    At some stage tomorrow or Sunday I will have quite a deal to say on matters - as much as I'd love to now as I'm chomping at the bit.

  7. #22

    Re: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

    Ok - so a response was sought from Daff by Bill Hoffman of the Sunshine Coast Daily on the apparent collapse of tailor stocks in the Cooloola/Fraser region.

    Included in the response, it was stated that the decline in commercial yields and recreational catches is - and I quote - "not unexpected given the range of management measures introduced since 2002, including a total allowable commercial catch, bag limits, seasonal closures and increasing the minimum legal size." - end quote. All designed mind you to increase tailor populations and thus enhance commercial yields and recreational catches.

    But let's analyse these management initiatives shall we and see whether they actually have any negative influence over such poor commercial yields and recreational catches in the region as is being stated as the reason for the poor yields and recreational catches in 2011 and 2012.
    .

    Seasonal closure for August and September between Indian Head and Waddy Point - introduced in the late 90s. So no, doesn't have any negative impact on commercial yields or recreational catches on Fraser Is from 2000 - 2012 and certainly doesn't negatively influence commercial or recreational catches in any shape or form in Cooloola.

    Seasonal closure to commercial netting between Hook Point and Sandy Cape from 1st Sep to 1st April introduced in 2003. So no, doesn't negatively impact commercial yields on Fraser Is from 2003 - 2012 and certainly doesn't negatively influence commercial yields or recreational catches in Cooloola.

    Seasonal closure to commercial netting between Tooloora Ck and Ngkala Rocks from 1st April to 1st September - introduced in 2003. So no, doesn't negatively impact commercial yields on Fraser Is from 2003 - 2012 and certainly doesn't negatively influence commercial yields or recreational catches in Cooloola.

    Total Allowable catch by commercial fishers of 120 tonne - introduced in 2002. So no, doesn't negatively influence commercial yields after 2002 and especially when the tac has never been reached.

    Bag limit of 20 fish for recreational anglers - introduced March 2002. So no, doesn't negatively influence commercial yields or recreational catches between 2002 and 2012 anywhere.

    Size limit of 35cm - introduced in March 2010. This can only influence commercial yields and recreational catches in 2010 due to the fish not legal (between 30 and 35cm) in 2010 becoming legal in 2011. Funnily enough, 2010 yields weren't that bad, but 2011 and 2012 were tragic.

    There is one other influencing factor that hasn't been considered. This is the algal blooms of hincksia sordida and anaulus australis which occurred along the Fraser and Cooloola coast during Spring, Summer and Autumn between the summer of 2000/2001 and August 2007 when the drought broke in this region and dispersed the hincksia which had near prevented all surf fishing during those years. The algae did negatively influence commercial yields and recreational catches between 2001 and 2007 and which can be seen in the graphs. This should have provided tailor with an opportunity for their population to recover and it may well have gauging from yields in all 3 grids for 2007, 2008, 2009 & 2010 to varying degrees. There has been no hincksia present for these years and la nina rainfall should also be of assistance to healthy yields. Yet 2011 and 2012 yields collapsed at a time when they should be as healthy as those prior to 2001 other than 30 - 35cm tailor and especially in Cooloola where none of the other management initiatives actually apply to the commercial fishery.

    I remind everyone - these management measures were introduced to increase tailor populations and subsequently yields and recreational catches. But here we have a situation where DAFF/FQ are stating that these managent measures decreased yields and recreational catches.
    Come on guys, what are you thinking? Or is the response to Bill Hoffman's questions and the clear collapse of tailor stocks that I've exposed by using your data, merely an attempt at a smokescreen? Sadly, it is a very poor attempt and one that I'm afraid I will not be letting you get away with.

    Lindsay Dines
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #23
    Ausfish Silver Member
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    Re: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

    What can i say Slider except for (You Go Get Them) Good Luck. Manta Man

  9. #24

    Re: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

    Lindsay

    I remember that you posted a lot on here about Tailer singing in pain like the whales with the nettings, still selling your Tailer sliders to catch them?
    Tangles KFC


  10. #25

    Re: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

    Cheers Manta Man.

    Any fish with vocalising capabilities will emit alarm vocalisations when trapped in nets and that is most species. It can be expected that the same species would emit alarm vocalisations when in pain also - such as when hooked.
    But no Tangles, I haven't traded in Sliders for a few years and if there is a point you're trying to make, then make it properly so I can address it properly.

    Another article in today's Sunshine Coast Daily that is very interesting.

  11. #26

    Re: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

    Thanks for all your info Slider.

    Part of the problem that is plainly obvious to those that have been around a long time is that Qld Fisheries managers like to keep their seats warm by not rocking the boat and not upsetting anyone. The easiest way to do that and keep their job is to tell the world "We are doing a great job and there is nothing wrong with the fishery". To do that they manipulate a few figures and when anyone dares to question or even have a contrary opinion they just DENY DENY DENY until the problem goes away.

    How many people reading this, who actually fish for tailor in the surf in Qld, will state categorically that there is no problem with tailor?
    I certainly will not. I agree with Slider.

  12. #27

    Re: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

    Yes, well - as of today I am pleased to state that there is no longer any denial from FQ regarding declining tailor catches - at least on the Sunshine Coast. It is also agreed that the technical staff at FQ and myself will meet within the next few weeks to discuss what is occurring and what management meaures can be implemented to reverse the trend.
    While this is pleasing and I take my hat off to the guys at FQ who have instigated this approach, I am also aware that appropriate remedial measures still need to be implemented and that we need to establish what is appropriate. Most would be aware of what I believe to be necessary and I'll naturally be pursuing these objectives, but I will also approach the situation with an open mind. Well, not completely closed anyway.

    And while open dialogue relating to tailor is great, there are a number of related issues associated with other species that I hope to address in the process. In particular is mullet netting and the current arrangements that exist.

    Guess I can tone down the rhetoric a little now.

  13. #28

    Re: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

    Is someone trying to tell us something that we already know? Words need to be put into action, i'm sick of all the talk around stopping the pro netters pulling tonnes of tailor and "by catch" as they call it from our beaches. Not too sure why and what the dpi are doing with there research data every year on fraser island but it seems to be falling on deaf ears where it counts. Im like every other keen beach fisho that hits fraser island every year, a heap of talk leading up to the trip about 'this year is shaping up as a good year for tailor' then when you get up on the island the frustration kicks in as soon as the first lot of tailor hit the beach, lucky if they are 35cm! This isn't just killing our fish stocks but it is killing what was a very big tourism injection for fraser island. Don't know why we as australians sit on our butts and let this type of injustice take place every year. I guess its the same fight as keeping australian manufacturing jobs onshore, the state and federal goverment have no balls to try and stop it. Before i sign off i would really like to know if anyone has documented prove of where all the netted tailor end up because i know most of the fresh seafood places around se qld don't stock "fresh" tailor in there display cabinets for a reason that doesn't need explaining, so where do they end up? Asia, cat food, or maybe the dumb?? It seems as though the reco fishos have lost there fight on this topic and i cant really blame them because a few years back the fight to stop pro netting of tailor was very well documented and we saw plenty of "stop netting tailor" stickers on the back of most beach fisho's 4wd's or a stop netting petition at the local bait and tackle store or fishing club but all i ever read now days is yes, we have the data to prove the stocks have declined and we are concern about the future stocks but we are not doing anything about it! Well i will still be doing my yearly fraser trip this august and know that its more of a trip to get away from work and the stresses of life and if we catch any tailor or decent size beach species its just a bonus.
    Cheers and beers
    keithy

  14. #29
    Ausfish Silver Member
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    Re: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

    Well Tailorfisho you hit the Nail Right on the Head. It is interesting that the past few years on Fraser have been quite poor. You say you get a lot of Tailor, just under 35cm mmm usally the bigger ones don"t turn up till say mid September onwards.Also i have to wonder, of all the undersized Tailor returned to the water how many actually survive. Reason being Tailor have a soft mouths and are bleeders. I have to wonder how many do survive after having a set of Gangs retrieved from their mouth or triple hooks from a slug! Anyway Personally i have written a couple of letters to various authorities over the years and have not had a response. I hav'nt fished a Beach for at least 8 years and i miss it dearly. I for one am not entirely against the Netters but as (I've said on previous threads you just can"t keep taking all the breeding stock in Mass Proportions and expect it too be sustainable. Only the very Gullible would think that. It does"nt mater what species of Fish is being netted "Firstly the Size will Decline, and then eventually the numbers as well. Oh and just remember their Best Hauls are in Peak Breeding Season for any Species.. Oh and as no"s decline so do the Predators following. Again Slider i wish you well in pursuit of this subject. I do hope common sense does prevail for the Future Generations of Fish, and for the Children of Tomorrow and fellow Fishos of today.

  15. #30

    Re: Tailor Stocks Hanging by a Thread

    In partial answer to your question Tailorfisho78:
    "Before i sign off i would really like to know if anyone has documented prove of where all the netted tailor end up because i know most of the fresh seafood places around se qld don't stock "fresh" tailor in there display cabinets for a reason that doesn't need explaining, so where do they end up? Asia, cat food, or maybe the dump??"

    From Courier Mail
    National parks rangers investigate thousands of fish dumped in Moreton Island creek

    THOUSANDS of fish have been dumped in a creek on Moreton Island National Park, with locals alleging they were thrown there by fishermen illegally netting in the area.
    An island resident said it was not the first time fish had been dumped on the northern part of the island off Brisbane, an area often used by net fishers.
    "I don't know why they dumped them there,'' the resident said. "Maybe it's to hide them from the rangers but it's not just one event. Tonnes have been dumped and it's been going on for ages.
    "Some of the fish are relatively fresh, some are mush and some are just skeletons.''
    He said some of the catch was tailor and fish were of a substantial size, which suggested they had perhaps not been properly chilled, forcing fishermen to throw them away.
    "It's anything goes up on the northern end of the island at night,'' he said. "They know there is no policing so they do just what they like and they're pretty feral.''
    National Parks Department southeast region director Rob Allan appealed for help to track down the culprits.
    Fish were thought to have been dumped on the weekend and rangers and Fisheries Department inspectors went to a creek at Yellow Patch on Monday to investigate.
    The area is in a Yellow Zone under the Moreton Bay Marine Park zoning and netting is allowed with some restrictions.
    Queensland Seafood Industry Association chief executive Scott Wiseman said whoever dumped the fish was acting illegally.
    "We don't know who this was but professional fishers' nets are supposed to be monitored all the time,'' he said. "The whole idea is that as much bycatch as possible is released unharmed.
    "We'll follow this up and see if any of our members are operating in the area and make sure they are doing the right thing.''

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