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View Poll Results: Would you like to see a state wide Rec Fishing Licence introduced in Qld

Voters
211. You may not vote on this poll
  • YES to the Qld Gov introducing a Rec Fishing Licence

    72 34.12%
  • NO to the Qld Gov introducing a Rec Fishing licence

    139 65.88%
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  1. #91

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Quote Originally Posted by cormorant View Post
    Lots of very strategic words talking down the 70% here and saying how uneducated and unknowledgable we are but........... just maybe we have seen it all before and are or different ages and backgrounds. I always love the - were doing it for your own good. You don't have to talk down to the 70% as we have a opinion - it just doesn't line up with yours.

    Why not just get fisheries $10m in funding?? Lobby the crap out of politicians etc etc . Yeah I hear ya - too hard? It would mean instantly a extra 20% going direct to projects through lower administration for a start.

    Well because there is vested interests and trust issues.

    Why not use the existing menbers of fishing clubs and competitions participants and collect the 10 mill? Set up a comittee and a trust and spend it how you like.

    More fisheries officers. God lets have a small part of reality here - how much time do they actually spend out there ? Why not train and authorise other departments like Nat parks, police, customs, maratime etc? Oh thats right we are all separate departments and we want to build our own empires and our own enforcement statistics and fine income.. Change some legislation and make long term difference - too hard.

    I could go on about Gaden but I'll leave that alone.


    Yep it could all be done better - the problem is that it doesn't end up being done any better.

    I'll decare my interest - I never needed a lic to do the right thing to the environment , fish, fish sizes or waterways. I don't want picnic benches , taps , cleaning stations as I and self reliant. I think more money should be spent on core research porjects not on pissy little unlinked poor science that should have been uni funded to start with.

    It is a extra payment and should be voluntary . If you are doing nothing outside the law you shouldn't need a lic so you can prove it. I am sick of every part of my enjoyment requiring some for of officialdom and oversight.

    Can anyone point me to a fishery that has been wrecked soley by rec fishermen who kept withing bag limits ? If so why wasn't the science and bag limits done earlier?
    Hi Cormorant -

    Question ...... Do you actually fish ?
    I notice that you hale from good old Sydney - so if that's the case & you fish then you would have a RFL ... or do you ?
    I'm assuming that you do because you state that you do the right thing - Even though you say that you dont need this and that because you are self reliant - Great to hear! . That said in one way or another you are a recipient of the benefits associated with the RFL - tell me you are not (but also tell me where you fish)... If you wouldn't mind .



    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  2. #92

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Well that would make everybody a pro fisher person
    and they would be able to sell here fish to the fish markets
    Sold
    how much is it?

  3. #93

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Chris - yes & yes . Have I benefitted , yep. Do I think it coulda shoulda been done without a RLF - Yep Do I like comittees and pet projects - nup. Do I like long term serious research - Yep
    Will I ever be convinced a extra tax is the way to go - no way.

    Edit

    One of the many pain in the bum of the lic is that if you have relos, mates, neighbours etc etc come for a fish - yep a once a year - you have to piss around getting a lic for them for the day. You can't buy 4 for the boat as a example so it doesn't matter who is on the boat
    Having to carry it.
    Not having it attached to your boat or driv lic.
    Having enforcement more interested in fines and statistics.

  4. #94

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    I reckon it'd be a bigger piss around to constantly catch nothing when you do go fishing. But I spose we're 8 cents a day better off so can't complain.

  5. #95

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Quote Originally Posted by cormorant View Post
    Chris - yes & yes . Have I benefitted , yep. Do I think it coulda shoulda been done without a RLF - Yep Do I like comittees and pet projects - nup. Do I like long term serious research - Yep
    Will I ever be convinced a extra tax is the way to go - no way.
    .
    I guess that's my point - If you fish you will benefit in one way or another ....... & that goes for the once a year fishoe too (yes it is a pain in the butt getting a weekend RFL) . These days I fish maybe 4 or 5 days a year in NSW but I still get a licence ....... & have no qualms about it ..... Whether I go fishing up the Snowies for trout or go offshore fishing for Marlin at Port stephens or bassin up the Nepean River - all have been influenced by the RFL.
    When you go trout fishing in NZ - you pay a bomb for their Licence ........ it makes a $30RFL look like peanuts .
    I still think that what was learned from the NSW version could be improved up here in Qld ....... a little less of the BS & greater outcomes

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  6. #96

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Slider - What is the maximum you would pay a year and how many days a year will it cover for you? What is the actual cost a day whan you invite a mate out - not 8c ?

    NSW
    Licence fees are:

    • $6 - 3 days
    • $12 - 1 month
    • $30 - 1 year
    • $75 - 3 years

    What would you say to a $500 a year fee? Are your kids going to be able to afford that?

    It is not about the $ as much as the principal of the matter and the ineffeciency of the govt. So they are ineffecient and throwing more money and taking up and doing their job is the solution? .

    Can you seriously tell me over the whole budget of fisheries they can put up 10 million for these projects or are you just saying that you have no influence in a fisheries department and feel a bigger stakeholder when you can participate in a comittee and get the projects you want done?

    We all know that fisheries knowing funding will come from the trust will put money and resources elsewhere and we rec fishermen will have footed the bill - yep a tax. It's Ok we have a table and a fishcleaning bench with a RFL plaque on it and some very average research that isn't always big picture .

  7. #97

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Just remember it's not the government that decides where the NSW RFL funds go ! (ministerial review after recommendation) ...... they have representation but it is still the stakeholders that have to agree.


    http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/ass...s-Dec-2011.PDF
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  8. #98

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    I don't have to tell you that FQ/Gov can't/won't come up with the money for net free regions. They aren't.

    Not sure I'd be too keen at $500 (???), you are right, and it's only me I have to worry about.

    I can't answer the allegation that FQ would put the money elsewhere to where it should be going. It's up to Sunfish to ensure that the structure is such that it does.

    If your mates don't fix you up for the price of a licence then they can't be very good mates.

    What 'average research' are we talking about?

  9. #99

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Quote Originally Posted by Slider View Post
    I don't have to tell you that FQ/Gov can't/won't come up with the money for net free regions. They aren't.
    This was from the ABC news in May 2012 Slider, I've highlited what I think is the most interesting part esp as this was just before the Qld Gov contacted Sunfish saying they were considering introducing a state wide RFL. Anyone joined the dots yet?

    The Queensland Government has promised it will deliver on a $10 million election commitment to the state's fishing industry.
    Premier Campbell Newman promised $9 million to fund a voluntary buyback of east coast inshore commercial netting licences, removing up to half in areas of high conservation or recreational fishing value.
    Another $1 million was earmarked to fund related measures, including monitoring fisheries.
    Queensland Seafood Industry Association president Geoff Tilton says they've met with the new Fisheries Minister John McVeigh to discuss the LNP policy.
    "He said that they would honour their commitment, it's part of their 100-day plan," Mr Tilton said.
    "It's dependent on financing, but he assured us that this process will go ahead and the mechanisms for it are still to be worked out, but yes it's a commitment they intend to fulfil."
    The amount of money the LNP will pay for individual licences is yet to be determined.
    ~~~><))))*>

  10. #100

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    I'm not against an RFL, as been stated in previous posts and threads, 'right time, right place'. The RFL as talked about here is flawed, especially when (constantly) referred to the NSW one as a model.
    Not all fisheries/recs will benefit - This is a BIG question, I understand totally that SOME waterways HAVE benefited. Not all, however. How do you justify everyone paying to fish, when only selected fisheries benefit. You can't, plain and simple. As an example (and yes, I fished the Tweed area alot, but also fished around Ballina,Coffs, Mylestom and freshwater areas around Ebor) why haven't the licences been bought out in the Tweed/Byron area (river OR beach). Are there plans too, or, as mentioned in the link to trust guidelines, is the geographic area not of benefit to the many? Understand funding gets placed where max benefit is, that's Govt. But this is a supposed rec trust fund, paid by ALL fishing within NSW....
    Also as mentioned, why should rec funds go to enforcing what is and always should be Govt responsibility ie licence enforcement. Read the trust split on how much is spent JUST ON LICENCE ENFORCEMENT (not including other fisheries officer jobs). I think when mentioned that people want this, they mean it in a sense that anyone wants Govt (local or otherwise) to step up and take control of whats theirs (Everyone hates crime but I don't see a calling for a rec police fund to fund more officers doing their job). It's absurd that so much of the fund is spent on officers making sure people have their licence....I'm paying for a licence to make sure someone is checking to see I paid my licence????
    Also, that link to trust guidelines is a bit misleading, it doesn't really say how funds are split up, really just on how to apply for funding. I paid a licence fee for years and never once did I see a bit of paper or somebody ask, or some mail arrive asking me to vote on how the money was spent. If I'm paying into a supposed trust fund that benefits all, I'd rather see some of the money spent on advising stakeholders (anyone that pays a damn licence) how to have a say, rather than automatically channelled off to a division that occasionally checks to see if I have a licence....as example
    Why is so much still spent on document based education? This is the digital age, pretty much everyone uses the internet. Rules, guides, how-to's could all be placed there and no need to waste $$$ printing garbage that 90% of the time winds up in the bin. Yep, some is still needed, majority no. It's too easy a budget waster, publication of documents.....
    An RFL is a TAX, plain and simple. Another tax added onto countless others that people are rightly p!ssed off when faced with. It was mentioned why people are against it when they spend $$$ already in purchases of this that and the other? Because they already spent $$$ (which included taxes) on this, that and the other. And all the other taxes that are already paid.
    Lindsay/Slider, you already mentioned how you (now) lament the Northshore/Vehicle tax, yet previous to it you weren't totally against it. What will be your stance if an RFL was introduced and the Northshore didn't benefit from any of it? serious question, and it IS plausible).
    I don't have the answers and don't wish to pretend I do, what I do know, however, is that an RFL is a plain, simple tax that would see some benefit to highly populated areas (can we see another snub here to FNQLD'ers, ala funding for everything else) and some creative accounting seeing funds off into 'admin' etc.
    Going by a licence system that fed into a trust fund, it would seem to be more fair that individual areas have associated fees that stayed within that area, thats not going to happen.
    I don't want an RFL because it's a bandaid solution to a problem everyone knows exists, but rather than fix it like they bloody should, Govt treat you like fools and throw a bone to keep you occupied for awhile.
    I would much rather see maybe a half/half system, where Govt go dollar for dollar (you could make the RFL voluntary, how many do you reckon would pay then???)
    Or maybe Govt calling for volunteers in programs that benefit rec fishing?? (restocking, clean up days/weekends etc)
    These could be starting points to base some kind of RFL on, maybe.
    Anyway, respect people like Naggs and Sliders view points and ideas, they're both obviously passionate and give a sh!t.
    Vegetarian - Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot that can't hunt, fish or ride.

  11. #101

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Yeah I agree with you Goat Boy. It's a very broad statement to say that the NSW RFL has led to huge improvements. Furthermore, could proponents of a qld RFL say it would improve qld, which has probably three times the coastline of NSW and three times the river systems(rough guess-dont pick me apart on that) with probably less people?
    I tend to think that the way we're currently moving is efficient. We've cut back on tailor takes. We've stopped a few harvesters who would move to hervey bay and fill their fridges with winteries every year. We've upped the size of bream. We've protected sp like mary river cod. Most people out west are very conscious of the murray cod. as landholders we spend many hours and thousands of our own dollars making sure carp are killed, yellowblly and cod and catties are translocated to new systems when our perennial creeks dry up. We stock creeks and billabongs with our own money.
    We've restriced reef fish takes. We've increased the min and max of flathead and this has made a massive difference to flattie stocks where I fish. We've looked at muddies, and decided not to adopt the NT jenny rules. And don't even start me on places like Awoonga, or the work done by people like Bill Sawynock and Kim Martin in CQ. Legends.
    All this and hundreds of other things have been done without resorting to an RFL. Proponents seem to say the system needs fixing; but will an RFL fix it quicker than we're already doing?
    People that rip off the system will do it with or without a piece of paper. There's been a massive increase in the last ten years of catch and release and general caring for the environment by fishos over the last ten to fifteen years. I for one am very proud of how perceptions have changed.
    But it is changing. And I don't feel like handing over another "freedom" for a questionable result.

  12. #102

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Ok, I've just put a post up on the "And Then There Were None" thread which is extremely relevent here. That post delves into fish behaviour and reproduction and explains why net free regions work. I'm not going to write it twice so do us a favour and read it.

    It is mentioned that there's no guarantee that funds from a rfl and the creation of net free regions will do what we hope they will do. Based on what you will read on the other thread, I can guarantee that if net free regions won't work, then there is no other measures available to fishery managers, apart from marine parks, that will work. Absolutely guaranteed.

    In today's society of human overpopulation and demand for protein to feed the masses, and the necessity for a commercial fishery, we can't close down all areas to net fishing. There has to be a balance so that fish populations can be maintained and the commercial sector also maintained. This means that there will be areas that are closed to nets and recs that fish those areas will do well, and areas that aren't closed to nets and recs in those areas won't do so well. It's an unavoidable fact of life that all of us have to accept. Do as Nagg has suggested - if you want to catch fish, go to the areas that aren't netted.

    So what you're pointing out Mike, is that there may not be $9 mil for a voluntary buy back of commercial licences? Is that the point you're making? Because there is no intention of complete removal of nets from strategic regions anywhere that I can see.

    Half the pressure in an area doesn't mean there will be more fish and in fact, it means that there definitely won't be more fish. This is the crux of my argument. Again, read the post on the other thread and that statement should make sense to you. If not, I will explain it further. Also contributing here is commercial fisher behaviour - the half that remain in a region, will simply fill the void vacated by the bought out half which were the inefficient half, and the remaining half are the efficient commercial fishers.

    I'm not really prepared here to argue every little intricacy of a rfl and its application, how it is to be set up, who manages the money and who makes the decisions on how the money is spent. I do have other things to do in my life like earn a living to fund what I do in fishery research. I will however argue til the cows come home the value of net free regions and the absolute necessity for them in Qld. However, if there is something that I'm not addressing, and someone feels that it is a really important point that hasn't been addressed, then remind me of it and I will address it if it falls into my field of expertise.

    Where is Scott Mitchell in all of this? Have you been gagged Scotto?

  13. #103

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    I keep referring to the NSW model as it's the only one that I know & have lived with for 9 years before moving to Qld .
    The improvements to Rec fishing is not based on anecdotal evidence - It's real
    Take the nets out of the system & you will see a dramatic improvement in that fishery & the surrounding area ...... The data exists if anyone cares to look . The salmon stocks improved from being taken to the brink to now being abundant - just by stopping beach netting (I cant remember if it was state wide or region specific) .
    It's just one measure (buyouts) but it is an important one . We still need professional fishing of estuary species but this day and age we shouldn't be doing it in & around higher population centers . Once removed the benefit to rec fishing and tourism will follow .
    After spending some time recently in caravan parks in north / central Qld (Fishery falls ,Cardwell , Lucinda & Conways beach) you get chatting to nomads and other fishoes and the percentage that were from the southern states was mindblowing ...... certainly more than those from SEQ - These people as a majority travel to these locations (stay) and fish - often for weeks and months. We via an RFL need to capture this group .......... fishing should never be a free for all & something always needs to go back .
    With more people fishing & with the newer technology fishoes are becoming more efficient at catching fish ..... if nothing is done ( stocking , commercial closures , habitat destruction etc) fish stocks can only go one way

    For me it's not about passion or something like that ....... It's the realisation that things need to be done & that unless fishermen take control & have some ownership a decline can only but continue. With money in a trust you know that there is the means to start the process & keep it going) The SIP scheme shows exactly that - It doesn't raise the money that an RFL would but the results are undeniable

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  14. #104

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    I too would have to agree with Goatboy as far as the NSW RFL goes; there are still plenty of Commercial licences that could be bought out to very good effect and hopefully going forward into the future they will be. To my mind infinitely better way to spend the collected revenues than new fish tables etc......
    What I will say though is that I believe the NSW RFL, warts and all, is better than nothing. Just my personal opinion.
    One problem is I think, and this could occur in a similar fashion in Qld, that the resources collected tend to be spent more in those regions which have higher populations of fishers, ie the metro areas.
    I seem to recall a figure of $10 mill being bandied around by the Qld Gov for licence buy-out etc, I wonder what in reality, could actually be accomplished with this piddling (in the scheme of things lol) amount?

  15. #105

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    It would seem to me that the question isn't a yes or no on the fishing lic, its yes or no can the gov't be trusted to channel funds appropriatly and efficiently. I recon there's a heap of fisho's who wouldn't mind makeing a modest "user pay" contribution in form of a lic or similiar if they could see their funds hitting the water and makeing a difference but would say no pureley on the back of governments (all of em) track record on miss use and wastage of these type of funding sources. I would support a lic but not untill i saw some credibility/accountability/efficiency in the spending of such funds. A good way for the gov't to re establish some credibility with us first is to show us some return on our boat lic fees in terms of marine facilities, ramps etc.

    Scott

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