View Poll Results: Would you like to see a state wide Rec Fishing Licence introduced in Qld

Voters
211. You may not vote on this poll
  • YES to the Qld Gov introducing a Rec Fishing Licence

    72 34.12%
  • NO to the Qld Gov introducing a Rec Fishing licence

    139 65.88%
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Results 76 to 90 of 198
  1. #76

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    [QUOTE=Mike Delisser; I'm glad this tread has raised quite a few good points for and against the introduction of a state wide Rec Fishing Licence, (Slider's & Goat Boy's in particular).

    I think you've been a bit hard done by there Naggs. I thought you made some excellent points and constructed a quality argument in favour of a rfl. Bit of a shame it's all in vain.

  2. #77

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    A Licence where fees are managed by a trust can be just as effective as the SIP scheme particularly over time .
    To say few if any improvements are achieved is just wrong ...... talk to any one who fishes places like lake Macquarie , Botany Bay , Lake Illawarra , Port Stephens etc and ask if they have not seen improvements over the last 12 or so years . Add to that the stocking of freshwater waterways and impoundments ..... particularly the work on natives
    If you were to spend some time looking at the NSW DPI website - you can see over the years just what has been done .......... certainly many times more than if there was no RFL.
    If we continue down the path with blinkers on we are sure to see recreational fishing deteriorate further specially if you are waiting for government to do it all themselves.

    Chris
    Sorry Chris, I can't agree with you, although in a perfect world I would. As it is I would rather have our current setup than again pay x groups of consultants to do another study on another system in order to recommend y outcome, and all within the realms of qangos and their inefficiencies. Having seen what state govt has done to DPI and other departments in the bush, I don't have any faith that an anti fishing government would screw down fishing if it was in their interests to do so.
    And while I understand that funds might be segregated, I don't have the faith that those funds would not be raided.
    But it's not the money, it's the principal of being on another list.
    Let me explain it this way. It shoots me to tears that I have to pay the road toll people $20 to have a buzzer in my car. If I have to backpay, ie pay over the internet if I gothrough a toll without a buzzer, they've made it so bloody impossible that it's a joke. So you virtually have to have a pass. When I buy that pass, I have to give them $20 to start off and if I go below $10 they top it up. So they have $20 of mine for nothing to do with what they will. For ever. Unless I cancel it. I find that unfair.
    So when I say I am against a licence, it's because I'm finding myself more and more tied down by rules and regulations. Gone are the days when I could largely do what I wanted, when I wanted. Fishing is my last freedom, where I can get in a boat and get the hell away from everyone. Will having to pay a licence change that. Fundamentally for me...yes. It would be another tooth on the cog of government control.
    I amn't trying to downgrade your point of view at all. I think I can understand your arguments. It's just that to me, the argument is not about fish stocks, it's about lifestyle, and what I see as a right of a Qlder to do what I want without a shiny arse regulating me. Again.
    Hope that makes sense
    regards Jim

  3. #78

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    [QUOTE=Slider;1405483][QUOTE=Mike Delisser; I'm glad this tread has raised quite a few good points for and against the introduction of a state wide Rec Fishing Licence, (Slider's & Goat Boy's in particular).

    I think you've been a bit hard done by there Naggs. I thought you made some excellent points and constructed a quality argument in favour of a rfl. Bit of a shame it's all in vain.[/QUOTE]

    Ok ok Nagg too lol, despite his Tweed faux pas. You could add points by Cormorant, SuperD, Pin, Tuna and others also, but I think Camhawk88's post was certainly the most precise and conveyed his position clearer than anyone else.
    Cheers
    ~~~><))))*>

  4. #79

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik View Post
    Sorry Chris, I can't agree with you, although in a perfect world I would. As it is I would rather have our current setup than again pay x groups of consultants to do another study on another system in order to recommend y outcome, and all within the realms of qangos and their inefficiencies. Having seen what state govt has done to DPI and other departments in the bush, I don't have any faith that an anti fishing government would screw down fishing if it was in their interests to do so.
    And while I understand that funds might be segregated, I don't have the faith that those funds would not be raided.
    But it's not the money, it's the principal of being on another list.
    Let me explain it this way. It shoots me to tears that I have to pay the road toll people $20 to have a buzzer in my car. If I have to backpay, ie pay over the internet if I gothrough a toll without a buzzer, they've made it so bloody impossible that it's a joke. So you virtually have to have a pass. When I buy that pass, I have to give them $20 to start off and if I go below $10 they top it up. So they have $20 of mine for nothing to do with what they will. For ever. Unless I cancel it. I find that unfair.
    So when I say I am against a licence, it's because I'm finding myself more and more tied down by rules and regulations. Gone are the days when I could largely do what I wanted, when I wanted. Fishing is my last freedom, where I can get in a boat and get the hell away from everyone. Will having to pay a licence change that. Fundamentally for me...yes. It would be another tooth on the cog of government control.
    I amn't trying to downgrade your point of view at all. I think I can understand your arguments. It's just that to me, the argument is not about fish stocks, it's about lifestyle, and what I see as a right of a Qlder to do what I want without a shiny arse regulating me. Again.
    Hope that makes sense
    regards Jim
    Jim

    I certainly appreciate what you are saying - I'm certainly not a fan for handing money over left right and center ..... particularly when it's hard to see where the benefit is .
    These days it's hard not to be cynical - specially if government is involved but sometimes you have to consider what would the best outcome be - pay a toll or deal with the traffic ( I mean worst traffic) etc etc .
    I guess when it comes to fishing outcomes the best thing I have seen was the introduction of an RFL when I lived in NSW - I literally watched my local waters improve year in year out ..... I didn't have to look out over Botany bay during a new moon period and see dozens of prawn trawlers raping the bay . I saw the system turn into a consistent jewfishery , the installation of the fish ball arti reefs.
    Having traveled to quite a few systems up and down the coast - I saw the marked improvement......... I could go on .
    Now I can tell you , when the proposal of a RFL was first put forward during the late 90's - I too was all against it (along with most others) ....... but it changed when I started to see the benefits (FADs , Arti's , cleaning tables , angel rings etc) . I took a tour of the Cronulla fish research facility and saw What they were doing ..... at the time work on Snapper & jewfish - these were partially funded by the RFL. The Gaden fish hatchery was saved because of the RFL
    Yes - In some ways you should expect this stuff should be funded by the government - but the reality is it wont! ...... So yeh now I live in Qld and have fished far and wide but with the exception of the SIP scheme - all you hear is pretty well the same whinge & whine about the state of the fisheries - I've witnessed netting in areas that should never be netted ...... I hear so much negativity . So maybe I'm an optimist - but having seen what a reasonably well run scheme has achieved in NSW ( not perfect) - I feel that it could work here in Qld

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  5. #80

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    In NSW ther is 12million raised - 400,000 anglers at $30 a year

    Have a look at the list of expenditure and structure and think how many of these things should be being done by the department with hundreds of mill in budget in the first place.

    I agree with Nagg that things have been done but to see so much of the funding going back into employing fisheries officers , million bucks as rebates to fishing shops for administering lic and the mass of administraion it takes to assess projects by non professionals just doesn't do it for me.

    Yeah I have a dream that the DPI / fisheries should actually do thier job a legislated in the first place and a minister should not have the role of approving expenditure of RFL trusts.

    http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/ass...lan-Nov-11.pdf

  6. #81

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Quote Originally Posted by cormorant View Post
    In NSW ther is 12million raised - 400,000 anglers at $30 a year

    Have a look at the list of expenditure and structure and think how many of these things should be being done by the department with hundreds of mill in budget in the first place.

    I agree with Nagg that things have been done but to see so much of the funding going back into employing fisheries officers , million bucks as rebates to fishing shops for administering lic and the mass of administraion it takes to assess projects by non professionals just doesn't do it for me.

    Yeah I have a dream that the DPI / fisheries should actually do thier job a legislated in the first place and a minister should not have the role of approving expenditure of RFL trusts.

    http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/ass...lan-Nov-11.pdf
    As I said - it's not perfect! - but there are outcomes......
    Believe it or not ..... it's the rec anglers that asked for more compliance officers .....
    While I am no too happy to see where some of the funding is going - it's the representatives of the various stakeholders that agree & have to decide where and how much .
    Personally I think - we could do better from what we have seen from the NSW model ......

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  7. #82

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    I agree Chris and i am not anti permit as I can see some benefits for rec anglers if we look at set ups in other states and takes the best ideas for a QLD version.The Victorian model delivers - have a look at operation rotor

    http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/fisheries/...-about-snapper
    You can't be neutral on a moving train

  8. #83

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Just an observation of the different attitudes I see expressed on this site by recreational fishers -

    70% of members who participated in the poll are opposed to paying an extra $30 a year for a rfl - whether it be because they see it as an extra tax, or because they see it as an infringement to their freedom.

    But of these members, how many have a boat worth tens of thousands, will put a hundred or more in the boat fuel tank each time they go fishing offshore, have thousands worth of rods/reels/tackle on board, stay in accommodation on trips away worth another grand, have a 4wd worth tens of thousands, put another hundred in the 4wd fuel tank to tow the boat to the boat ramp up or down the coast, get another hundred worth of bait for the day, etc etc you get the point. But that $30 for a rfl, even if it can mean the difference between net free regions or not, and an improving recreational and commercial fishery or not, gets their back up. Now let's say on average you get out 10 times per year = $3 per trip or about the price of a can of coke these days. Or another way of looking at it = 8 cents per day - kind of negligible isn't it? Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me why there would be such opposition when you can catch more and bigger fish for that $3 per trip.

    It is likely that with more fisheries inspectors that each of us would be checked for compliance more regularly. So what - if you're doing the right thing then it's a couple of minutes out of your day. Times have changed, there's 7 billion people on the planet, you're just going to have to accept that reality.

    Then you see threads all the time with members complaining bitterly about some dude with undersized fish, or fishing in green zones, and where the hell are the fishery inspectors to ping these bastards. But 70% of members aren't prepared to tip in $30 per year - 8 cents per day - to facilitate an increased presence by fishery inspectors - as well as have more and bigger fish in their own bucket.

    I know that, as Mike pointed out, a rfl doesn't necessarily equate to net free regions. But there's a fair likelihood it would, because rec fishers become a stakeholder with clout when they are directly funding to the extent of probably $10 mil or so each year. And the rec community, on contributing this $10 mil are going to be pretty passionate about demanding net free regions as penance for the 'tax' that has been forced upon them. The Fisheries Minister is probably going to accede to the want of the rec community because there's over 500000 voters out there who are opposed to this tax and every LNP Member of parliament is going to be mightily displeased if a rfl can possibly undermine their chances of being re-elected at the next election.

    So, wouldn't it make sense for the recreational fishing community to demand a rfl, providing there are net free regions set aside and there is an increased fishery officer presence - because we know that net free regions will make for a better recreational fishery and we hate seeing people keeping undersize fish?

    I know what the response to this post will be - no change in attitude from the 70% of members. So what chance have we got when there is no actual desire from the rec sector to improve the recreational fishery. Cause the government is not going to do the things we want them to and anyone who pushes that barrow is fooling themselves. We (the rec sector) are not helping our own cause - it's insane.

  9. #84

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Well said Slider
    I've never been able to fathom the reaction Qlders have to an RFL Some discussions I've had with blokes who are opposed to it have either a boat in a storage facility / mooring..... or go out to Lake Somerset where they pay a astronomical annual permit fee to use the place
    Certainly there is a lack of trust in the government of the day - so why not a change in attitude with a change of government ?
    Let's face it - will the LNP loose votes in 33 months if they put a licence in place ? .... I doubt it would loose many specially if in that period the RFL was able to deliver some measurable outcomes.
    I'm sure fishoes would prefer a transparent Licence / funding system than some mickey mouse one tied up to trailer registrations.

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  10. #85

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    SLIDER
    Perfect ... in theory. It's people's absolute distrust in politicians and bureaucrats to spend money how they say they will, which is at the core this issue.

    It is also how the department misled, misrepresented and arrogantly treated fishers during the snapper and CRFFF 'consultations' announcing decisions before the scheduled meetings were even completed, which also is at the core of the problem.

    Fix the trust issue and you can fix the licences. Until then, it simply equates to giving a financial druggie $30 for another hit.

  11. #86

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Yes, I can understand the lack of trust in politicians Superdaff, I have a healthy amount of that also. Therefore it is up to the 750000 Queenslanders to insist on a structure that doesn't permit the misuse of rfl revenue. Not my field of expertise to state what that structure needs to be. But I don't hear too many complaints from south of the border with the way things are structured there.

    As stated, the exercise is academic anyway and I can't see Sunfish insisting on a rfl. So round and round we go with an end result which we all now know - ie further depleted fisheries.

    I should clarify that I was on the fence re the rfl - I fell off and now, given the current circumstances of a future with no funding likely to be made available for net free regions, am well and truly in support of the recreational fishing sector insisting on a rfl and insisting on net free regions. It is the only answer.

  12. #87

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Quote Originally Posted by Slider View Post
    Yes, I can understand the lack of trust in politicians Superdaff, I have a healthy amount of that also. Therefore it is up to the 750000 Queenslanders to insist on a structure that doesn't permit the misuse of rfl revenue. Not my field of expertise to state what that structure needs to be. But I don't hear too many complaints from south of the border with the way things are structured there.

    As stated, the exercise is academic anyway and I can't see Sunfish insisting on a rfl. So round and round we go with an end result which we all now know - ie further depleted fisheries.

    I should clarify that I was on the fence re the rfl - I fell off and now, given the current circumstances of a future with no funding likely to be made available for net free regions, am well and truly in support of the recreational fishing sector insisting on a rfl and insisting on net free regions. It is the only answer.
    Very much agree with this & your previous posts.

    I don't see it as a tax either. When properly set up it can't just be spihoned off to general revenue.

    The number of backflips I've seen over the years from those in NSW who were opposed to it, and who are now seeing the benefits is considerable. Most don't mind admitting it either.

    No system will ever please everyone, but a starting point is to review the NSW model, find what's working & what isn't, then create our own to put forward. Better than waiting for some half arsed bureaucratic brainfart to be forced upon us.
    I'm right 98% of the time - who cares about the other 3%

  13. #88

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Slider you do make good points and contextually, I agree with your direction. It's the mechanics of the system where I need the reassurance. I think fisheries themselves have a lot to answer for in terms of generating much of the current mistrust. As well as the obvious cases, there are the not so public ones of them demanding monies from proponents of projects, so fisheries can prop up its own resources. That's 'cash for consent approval' as it were and I find that a particularly distasteful modus operandi. Regards

  14. #89

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    Lots of very strategic words talking down the 70% here and saying how uneducated and unknowledgable we are but........... just maybe we have seen it all before and are or different ages and backgrounds. I always love the - were doing it for your own good. You don't have to talk down to the 70% as we have a opinion - it just doesn't line up with yours.

    Why not just get fisheries $10m in funding?? Lobby the crap out of politicians etc etc . Yeah I hear ya - too hard? It would mean instantly a extra 20% going direct to projects through lower administration for a start.

    Well because there is vested interests and trust issues.

    Why not use the existing menbers of fishing clubs and competitions participants and collect the 10 mill? Set up a comittee and a trust and spend it how you like.

    More fisheries officers. God lets have a small part of reality here - how much time do they actually spend out there ? Why not train and authorise other departments like Nat parks, police, customs, maratime etc? Oh thats right we are all separate departments and we want to build our own empires and our own enforcement statistics and fine income.. Change some legislation and make long term difference - too hard.

    I could go on about Gaden but I'll leave that alone.


    Yep it could all be done better - the problem is that it doesn't end up being done any better.

    I'll decare my interest - I never needed a lic to do the right thing to the environment , fish, fish sizes or waterways. I don't want picnic benches , taps , cleaning stations as I and self reliant. I think more money should be spent on core research porjects not on pissy little unlinked poor science that should have been uni funded to start with.

    It is a extra payment and should be voluntary . If you are doing nothing outside the law you shouldn't need a lic so you can prove it. I am sick of every part of my enjoyment requiring some for of officialdom and oversight.

    Can anyone point me to a fishery that has been wrecked soley by rec fishermen who kept withing bag limits ? If so why wasn't the science and bag limits done earlier?

  15. #90

    Re: Qld Rec Fishing Licence? Yes or No

    So I'm wondering, what percentage of those that voted in this pole, are predominantly boat fishers and what percentage are predominantly land based?

    Because there is a difference, and a difference in perception, when it comes to the potential benefits fish quantity/quality wise that offshore fishers are likely to receive from a net free region, as well as the fact that boat owners believe, and supposedly are already contributing to fisheries management. It would be perfectly understandable that boat owners who fish away from areas that are most likely to benefit from inshore net free regions, would vote against a rfl. Throw in green zones and why would you support it?

    Now I can't possibly speculate as to the ratio of boat vs land based voters in the pole. But would I be correct in assuming that the type of fisher that is most likely to follow a thread like this, is a fairly experienced angler who has gotten past the passionate phase of just wanting to talk about fishing and how to catch fish? Most likely to have been fishing for a fair few years, has accumulated enough knowledge and coin to chase the better fish - offshore. And the guys that are least likely to participate in a thread like this are the younger guys still with the passion for catching fish who are more interested in the act of fishing and couldn't care less about the politics?

    And then I wonder, how many voted in this pole before they found out that net free regions in NSW turned a seriously depleted fishery state-wide, into a vastly improved fishery for both recreational and commercial fishing, with the indesputable evidence in post #s 64 & 71.

    Yet, the percentage in favour of a rfl is still at 32% and climbing and the result to date might only be lopsided because of the type of fisher that is voting and when they voted.

    The stance that Sunfish have taken and the conditions they have imposed on their support of a rfl, makes we wonder also. Who at Sunfish drew up those conditions? Was there a meeting held and these conditions arrived at? What would Sunfish's members like to see happen? I wasn't consulted, were you?

    But this is just a bit of a discussion with a fun sort of pole that doesn't really mean anything on a social networking site - isn't it? Or is it an actual reflection of the recreational fishing community's attitude to a rfl and a fair percentage may actually want one?

    But who would actually know what the breakdown of yay and nays for a rfl would be? Sunfish haven't done any research, haven't consulted any of us, and I can be fairly certain that no anglers that aren't members of Ausfish have been consulted either.

    I thought that Sunfish represented the anglers of Qld. What if the anglers of Qld do want a rfl? Government would surely want one and so do FQ (personal communication). The only reason why Gov wouldn't want one was if there was a voting backlash from the recreational fishing sector. But what they perceive as a potential backlash, could in fact be a significant vote winner.

    At worst, it could be a stand-off in that 50% of recs are in favour and 50% are against a rfl. And particularly if they are provided with all the facts associated with net free regions and improved fisheries for recs and pros, the success of RFHs in NSW and the acceptance of RFLs by anglers in NSW. At worst 50/50.
    The anti/non-fishing general public, when informed that recreational fishers are now going to have to pay to go and kill fish and litter our waterways, are going to think - "about time, I'm happy with that."

    Now, I am not happy that we will not receive any net free regions in the next 4 years at least. Who's to say it will happen in the following 4 years, or the 4 years after that? I think it is incredibly absurd that $9 million is being invested in a measure that seems destined for failure, when NSW has shown us what needs to be done. I'm not suggesting that the $9 mil should be directed towards a couple of net free regions as I'm sure there would be problems with shifting fishing pressure. But I am suggesting that Sunfish should reconsider their position and propose to Gov/FQ, that we do want a rfl, let's work out how it can be done.

    I know that a lot of people, and probably particularly on this site, would not agree. But I also know that a lot of people do agree. There's winners and losers no matter which way you look at it. But the importance of looking after our estuaries and inshore regions generally, is such that it overrides the objections of the predominantly offshore brigade who are most likely to be able to afford a rfl, and will see benefits in the form of some species quantity/quality, FADS, boat ramps and cleaning facilities - and will inevitably fish inshore and especially if the fishing was better. Also contributing is that the main beneficiaries in the rec sector are the land-based fishers. The families, young children, the youth who we want to drag away from the computer games and the tv. There are also more land-based fishers than there are offshore fishers.

    So shouldn't we, the average recreational fisher with a real concern for the future of our fisheries, be demanding that Sunfish instigate the process towards a recreational fishing licence?

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