On a mission

[kingtin]

Well my coarse tackle arrived from the UK today (14ft match rod and 14ft feeder rod) so I will be able to cast/reel in over the lily pads on kurwongbah. Gonna try European Coarse fishing techniques to try bring down the levels of tilapia.........yellowbelly and Bass will be a bonus. All I've gotta do now is get the bait past the bloody turtles!...........got 11 the other day

kev

[choppa]

hey kev,,, reading your post made me grab a rod that has been leaning against the filing cupboard next to the laptop,,,( i think i have an old,,,old thread on this as well)

Silstar Super Pole,,, Sec 9,,, 9.00 mtrs,,, A5-15 Action,,, Price tag is still on it,,, $89.99

i bought this thing back in NSW,,, over 21 years ago,,, never used it???

might mount it on the truck to tap on the slower cars in front of me around Bribie

[kingtin]

I tried that Pole fishing once choppa....................all I got was Hungarians.

[kingtin]

Bloody brilliant! Four casts in and I land a 48cm eel tail catty. Whilst I'm unhooking it a spectator comes to have a look and stands on the end of one of my new rods snapping it in two places! I know...............it should have been in the rod rest but I laid it on the ground as I had to drag the catty up the bank.

Anyways, she offers to pay and I says I'll go halfs as it's part my fault.................off she goes, as she's walking the dog and has to go home for the money..............me thinking, "last I'll see of her"............half an hour later she's back and insisting to pay for the lot. restores my faith in human nature

Fished on with just the one rod.

Tally for 5 hrs was the catty, 2 spangles, 24 tilapia (one at 36cms) and 6 turtles. baited with prawn and used a swimfeeder filled with breadcrumb berley.

Re-ordered a new rod.

kev

[Triple]

Have to get myself a long pole to try now.. Anyone know what the record is for mozambique tilapia for length? Found a few stating world records for blue tilapia weight at 4.5kg or thereabouts but nothing on lengths? (assuming the blue is the same as the mozambique we have here?) I have found a spot that may be closing in on the magic 50+cm for me but some may be nearing 60cm. As I have caught a number of them at 40-41 but have seen some MUCH bigger ones but they are a bit more cunning.

[tunaticer]

Before the tillies really took off in NPD a mate and I were catching fish averaging 4kgs and topping about 7kgs way back in about 1980 - 82. Tried eating a 4kg critter back then and it was like a bream to me for flavour and texture. In the following 4 yrs or so the size dropped away and the result in the end was fish about 1kg max. Millions more fish there tho.

[kingtin]

Have to get myself a long pole to try now.. Anyone know what the record is for mozambique tilapia for length? Found a few stating world records for blue tilapia weight at 4.5kg or thereabouts but nothing on lengths? (assuming the blue is the same as the mozambique we have here?) I have found a spot that may be closing in on the magic 50+cm for me but some may be nearing 60cm. As I have caught a number of them at 40-41 but have seen some MUCH bigger ones but they are a bit more cunning.

The vast majority of Tilapia aren't Mozambique. Mozambique are unmistakable in that they're bluey green/black on top with a cream underside and red tinges to their fin/tails. I swaw some in the lagoon at canterbury park bald hills a while ago that were easy 40cms......................big perfectly round nests (I counted 8) dug ourt of the mud where the mozambique had pulled up the weeds. Went back lat week to have a crack at 'em but it's completely overgrown with lillies and azolla now.

[Obi _ Wan]

Hi Kev, I did a training package with Fisheries a few weeks ago so i have the up to date information on Tilapia.

There are two species, the Mozambique tilapia (0reochromis mossambicus) which is the one we have down here, colour is variable depending on breeding and habitat.

The other is the Spotted tilapia (Tilapa mariae) which is found in North Qld waters around Cairns.

They say the tilapia grow to 40cm's but much larger fish have been found in waters around Brisbane.

Cheers,
John.

[kingtin]

Hi Kev, I did a training package with Fisheries a few weeks ago so i have the up to date information on Tilapia.

There are two species, the Mozambique tilapia (0reochromis mossambicus) which is the one we have down here, colour is variable depending on breeding and habitat.

The other is the Spotted tilapia (Tilapa mariae) which is found in North Qld waters around Cairns.

They say the tilapia grow to 40cm's but much larger fish have been found in waters around Brisbane.

Cheers,
John.

Hi John,

I used to breed mozambique mouthbrooders which are the fish that are beginning to show more and more round these parts. I know fisheries more or less lumps 'em together and labels what was once the most commonest ones caught as mozambique, but my gut feeling, based on what I've been catching and what I used to breed, are that there are two species, or at least a sub-species carrying the same name

the first pic is the one most commonly caught and is deeper in the body and the 2nd is the mozambique which is more elongated, doesn't carry stripes when stressed, and has an entirely different jawline....although they are both mouthbrooders......... to me they seem like two entirely different fish...........but who am I to argue with fisheries?

[Triple]

All the ones I have been catching I have known/thought were Mozambique's as per fisheries and a few google searches - http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/28_13879.htm . Depending on the water quality/colour I am catching them from has effects on the red colour on the tail - dirty water is dirty coloured fins and how stressed they are/how long they fight for. I think the yanks call the mozambiques, blue tilapia - (http://www.fishbase.org/summary/Oreochromis-aureus.html) and the really bigger ones turn a grey/white colour going by some web pics. I see the differences in head shape but thought possibly male/female variation or just as growth rate increases body shape changes.

These ones show the shape variation -




One of my bigger ones -



Are they all Mozambique's or do we have some mongrel hybids like a nile tilapia cross in there? Silly question but I am sure that the original release of these fish would not of been a really large quantity so would years of "inbreeding" affect them?

Edit - are we getting a mix of Oreochromis aureus and Oreochromis mossambicus in our waterways?
14 different types of tilapia going by fishbase - http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/Com...operator=EQUAL How many are confirmed in qld waterways besides mozambique and spotted?

Sorry to hijack your thread Kingtin..

[kingtin]

All the ones I have been catching I have known/thought were Mozambique's as per fisheries and a few google searches - http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/28_13879.htm . Depending on the water quality/colour I am catching them from has effects on the red colour on the tail - dirty water is dirty coloured fins and how stressed they are/how long they fight for. I think the yanks call the mozambiques, blue tilapia - (http://www.fishbase.org/summary/Oreochromis-aureus.html) and the really bigger ones turn a grey/white colour going by some web pics. I see the differences in head shape but thought possibly male/female variation or just as growth rate increases body shape changes.

These ones show the shape variation -




One of my bigger ones -



Are they all Mozambique's or do we have some mongrel hybids like a nile tilapia cross in there? Silly question but I am sure that the original release of these fish would not of been a really large quantity so would years of "inbreeding" affect them?

Edit - are we getting a mix of Oreochromis aureus and Oreochromis mossambicus in our waterways?
14 different types of tilapia going by fishbase - http://www.fishbase.org/ComNames/Com...operator=EQUAL How many are confirmed in qld waterways besides mozambique and spotted?

Sorry to hijack your thread Kingtin..

No worries mate, you pose some good questions. As I say, I used to breed what we knew as mozambique moutnbrooders back in the Uk 20 odd years ago and they were all like the ones in my 2nd pic..............much more elongated and thinner and definately not coloured the same as the majority caught here and with a longer snout. I've seen plenty of mozambiques nesting and they nest hard up to the bank in shallows in the majority of cases, as at canterbury park (google mozambique nest). I believe there's also some nest at Springfield lakes. I've never seen 'em with stripes even as juveniles (some of yours in the top pic are striped) and yet the ones I've caught here are striped as they come out of the water and then turn drab green/dark grey. It is likely that they will hybridise so perhaps that is what we're seeing.

Canterbury park flooded and I'd never seen 'em before the flood so I'm guessing that they had come from the pine which adds further weight to the Mozambique I'm seeing being the "real" mozambique as they can withstand full salt for prolonged periods whereas I believe most other tilapia can't.............only for short periods and only estuarine.

[kingtin]

To further add. I believe that the most common tilapia caught around here are in fact the Nile Tilapia and that the fish are entirely different species to Mozambique. If you check the side profile of Mozambique with Nile, it is clear to see that the lower jaw (shovel like) of what I class as mozambique, protrudes much further than our "common" (Nile) tilapia and I believe that this aids in the nest building. I have never seen nests at kurwongbah or Samsonvale which both carry a large stock of what I believe to be Niles.

[Obi _ Wan]

I also believed we had two different species of tilapia here around Brisbane but the information and the answers given to questions has me believing that there is in fact only one specie in the Brisbane area.

There was another species in Western Australia called the Red Bellied Tilapia, fortunately it was eradicated so it no longer exists in this country.

Just a few points Kev, we discussed the appearance of the local fish and the following things came up. Kev, your picture of the fish with the concave forehead/protruding jaw would be classed as a male fish. From my limited experience with aquarium fish i seem to remember that the dorsal and anal fins were long with an extended point (male fish) where the female did not have fins as long or as pointed as the male. Fisheries say males have a long snout and pronounced lips/jaws, they have a continuous dorsal fin originating near the head and ending with an extended point. Their dorsal and anal fin are almost symmetrical.

Now please be aware I am not saying that i know a lot about this topic but i am relating the information that i have been given and what i have physically seen while fishing in the area.

From the handout.

What can you do?
If you sight or catch a pest fish in Qld. please report it by calling 13 25 23 or by emailing pestfish@deedi.qld.gov.au Please include as much information as possible, detailed info on location, type of water body, description of the fish and if possible, whether a photograph or a frozen specimen was retained.
Visit www.deedi.qld.gov.au for more details.

Unfortunately at the present time there is only one scientist looking after pest fish but i can assure you that she certainly knows her stuff and is doing a great job.

Cheers,
John.

[Horse]

I'm sure DPI is on the ball but the local Tilapia looks more like Niloticus to me.I used to breed what was then known as Tilapia mozambique. Close but not the same as we catch here.

[kingtin]

I also believed we had two different species of tilapia here around Brisbane but the information and the answers given to questions has me believing that there is in fact only one specie in the Brisbane area.

There was another species in Western Australia called the Red Bellied Tilapia, fortunately it was eradicated so it no longer exists in this country.

Just a few points Kev, we discussed the appearance of the local fish and the following things came up. Kev, your picture of the fish with the concave forehead/protruding jaw would be classed as a male fish. From my limited experience with aquarium fish i seem to remember that the dorsal and anal fins were long with an extended point (male fish) where the female did not have fins as long or as pointed as the male. Fisheries say males have a long snout and pronounced lips/jaws, they have a continuous dorsal fin originating near the head and ending with an extended point. Their dorsal and anal fin are almost symmetrical.

Basically you're correct John...............males (nearly, but not all cichlids) have a longer dorsal and anal fin but the other point is incorrect..............nearly all male cichlids have a pronounced head which can give the appearance of a convex slope in "short snout" fish and concave in longer snouted, whilst the female's is nearly always more of a gentle or straight slope which sometimes is the only way to sex them (other than venting) if they are one of the species that doesn't have longer dorsal and anals. They may look slightly concave from the lower eye to nose but from the crown of the head, they are more "pronounced" overall whereas a female has a more gentle concave slope. I have sexed many "unsexable" fish for members of QLDAF who thought the only way to sex 'em was by venting and am invariably proven correct when they later bred.

In my first pic above of the Nile tilapia the top one is male and the bottom is female...............given the info that fisheries gave you, they are correct. The top male has a longer lower jaw and longer anal and dorsal and also "appears" to have a concave slope, but this is true for most cichlids (barring the concave slope) and the general characteristic does not a Mozambique make..............you can apply it to almost any cichlid.

The bottom pic of mine is an entirely different fish................the fish I've bred................the fish that is exactly that shape and colouration at only around 8 to 10cms, which dispels the supposition that it is merely a large male which has changed since being a juvie..............triple's fish are large and look nothing at all like my 2nd pic which are the fish I'm seeing in Canterbury park, that I reported to DPIF via their website. I got a call from them whilst I was out and the missus answered it and said the caller was a lady and she would ring me back, but she didn't.............could be the lady you mention? I'm guessing (hopefully) that they may not see the winter out as it's less than a metre depth in there and the cold may get 'em, but Springfield Lakes is a different matter

To Triple's fish: His 3rd pic I would say is a ripe female Nile and the last one either a male...........can't be too sure with fins folded but the anal fin looks longer and it's not as deep in the body as the female....... or it could be a hybrid as the eye looks closer to the crown of the head and gill plate formation is somewhat different as is mouth shape

I risk sounding a bit snotty here John but it's not my intent, but I really do believe that fisheries have got it all wrong in labelling what most folk catch as Mozambiques......................unless of course what the Aquarium trade knew as mozambiques years ago and today, aren't mozambiques...............if they're not, what the feck are they 'cause they're showing in increasing numbers around these parts and have been discussed for some time on QLDAF and have even had a group set up to target 'em at Springfield lakes.