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  1. #91

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    hhmm did some one say 'rant"

  2. #92

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    70cm limit, 2 in possesion.
    If I remember correctly, in NSW a couple years ago a proposal was put to Fisheries by rec peak bodies (ACORF?) to raise to size limit to 75cm.
    Fisheries deferred to the positon taken by those representing the Estuary Haul fishers, ie that the status quo remain.
    This allowed the take of 45cm fish to be continued by the commercial sector.
    The ability of beach-haulers to take comparatively large quantities of mulloway at will at the confluence of rivers during the mullet run may well be another contributing factor to the apparent decline of the species.
    These are two issues that need to be addressed by those responsible. I have had a gut-feeling for several years the commercial sector sense the writing may be on the wall, and they are making as much hay as they can while the sun still shines.
    I don't agree with this species being a no-take as I don't see the sense in seeing a perfectly good food fish die for nothing; I believe they have a comparatively high mortality rate.
    Slot size to me is useless; catch a large mulloway off the beach or rocks at night and personally I believe the only thing you achieve by releasing the fish is some very happy sharks.
    Cheers, and all IMHO.

  3. #93

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    The NSW regs as it stands now is, 45CM size limit, and only 2 fish over 70CM, so in effect they have protected the breeding stock (kind of) by allowing only 2 fish of breeding size, now whether this has helped in increasing fish stocks is anyones guess, down my way, Mulloway/Jewfish are not all that common, and only specificaly targetted by a handful of "secret" fisher folk, who keep their trade a rather gaurded secret, we do catch a few though, mainly by live bait people looking for other species.

  4. #94

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by Noelm View Post
    OK, can you please tell me one method of "non destructive" commercial (or rec) fishing, every method destroys something, whether it be the death (or potential) of the fish we caught, the bait/plastic we used, the rubbish that maybe left on the bank, or tossed over the side, the motor we used, the cast we dragged over the bottom, the whole lot is destructive to various degrees, what the whole argument is about is WE dont want pros taking OUR fish.
    a few good points there.
    a lot of things that we all do in everyday life eventually effects the marine ecosystem to some extent.
    one of my pet hates is finder plastic bags in the water or onshore near the water.
    around here they are mainly tweed bait bags of whatevere they used to contain ,plastic bread bags and bloody plastic bottles of all sorts scattered around the river.
    people are just too damm lazy to dispose of the shit properly .
    its mainly rec fishos tourists and some locals i suspect that are to blame.
    the next scourge of the ocean will be discarded dyneema braid fishing line.
    lasts forever doesnt breakdown and has the potential to choke the rivers for want of a more subtle word.
    four stroke outboards are a good thing to stop oil pollution of the rivers.
    twostrokes nowdays are better than the smoky things of the past.
    and the last bit OUR FISH.
    The pros are also part of the OUR community with the right to earn a living through the license they bought.

  5. #95

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    while we are bashing pro fisherman .
    if the gov't of the day was fair dinkum about getting the pro numbers down instead of spending a mil here and mil somewhere else keeping themselves in jobs they could be buying out pro licenses and tearing them up .
    if you want the pro's out they have to be bought out full stop.
    i suspect if a nice carrot was dangled in front of most of the clarence pros they would have to be tempted given the state of the australian mess.
    then there is the other bit what do they do then join the cue of ever increasing people looking for work in this country that is running so well.
    years ago a buyback scheme was suggested to get rid of boats but nothing came of it.
    rather than buy the licenses out the gov't would rather see them be starved out to save them some money .
    they need more for usefull things like aid to indonesia etc.
    the blame lays squarely with the gov'ts of the day not me, you or the pro's trying to survive.
    ken

  6. #96

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Hi There Gabba,
    I believe a few years ago the Govt did buy out some Pro licenses.However some of these Pros then went and bought some inactive licenses and started up again.
    Sad
    Historian/Collector of Old Sidecast Fishing Reels

  7. #97

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by GABBA110360 View Post
    The pros are also part of the OUR community with the right to earn a living through the license they bought.
    Absolutely Ken, I couldn't agree with you more on that point. I'm certain that there are "bad" practices on both sides of the equation; professional fishers and recreational fishers. Unfortunately, when the tag "professional" is applied to a name then there are expectations of a higher standard of conduct and responsibility.

    Cheers,
    Jim

  8. #98

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by Da-Jew-Man View Post
    Hi There Gabba,
    I believe a few years ago the Govt did buy out some Pro licenses.However some of these Pros then went and bought some inactive licenses and started up again.
    Sad
    yes you are abso;utely correct.
    i know of cases where some got payouts from the byron bay marine park only to buy another license and keep going.
    buy it out and tear it up is the only fair way.
    it's like saying you are redundant in your job as of right now and who cares how you survive it wont happen .
    if pros have to sacrifice there way of life then they must be bought of the industry at the going rate.
    it is the only real solution in my opinion
    ken

  9. #99

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by Noelm View Post
    OK, can you please tell me one method of "non destructive" commercial (or rec) fishing, every method destroys something, whether it be the death (or potential) of the fish we caught, the bait/plastic we used, the rubbish that maybe left on the bank, or tossed over the side, the motor we used, the cast we dragged over the bottom, the whole lot is destructive to various degrees, what the whole argument is about is WE dont want pros taking OUR fish.
    Hey yes Noelm, I have to agree that collectively rec fishers do have impact on the marine environment. These things also need attention and education. I honestly believe that in some respects fishers of my fathers generation were more caring and responsible where it seems the newer generation are far more careless. I was bought up with good instuction about many things to look after the waterway and bottom structures, habitat etc.
    I also pass this on to my family and crew so we do our best and are as thoughtful as we can be so I believe that some reccos are better than others because you don't have to look far to see disgusting things being done on the water by the general public. Of course it is the same with the pro's, some care and some don't. The trouble is that with the Pro's that don't give a rats about the damage, do damage in mass quantities.
    I didn't mean to hijack this post as a Trawler bash because I believe that it is very relevant due to the mass kill of juvenile fish, Mullaway and many other species and having seen the kill first hand I have no doubts at all.
    I will add that I have witnessed over 40 trawlers at night here in moreton bay doing what appeared to be a co-operative sweep back and forth and turning 10's of acres of the bay to mud and death. I just can't imagine how that can ever be compared to what we responsible or even irresponsible rec fishers do and I don't use braid line for reasons mentioned and worry enough when losing a bit of mono but I always rig so as to break at the leader for multiple reasons. I also hardly ever anchor on reef or vulnerable structure, leave no rubbish and use one of the cleaner engines I could buy. Only take a small quantity fish for the family table nothing wasted. The only thing I could do better is stay home I guess and if the govt fails to act soon of this illconcieved and undermanaged form of destruction I may as well as a day out in the boat will just be to get a tan.
    And when I am out at sea where I go to fish anyone out there is spread far and wide and perhaps only half dozen boats on the horizon and hard to imagine why that would not be sustainable, there is just no comparison really and I have no issue with Pro's personally just that method of prawning which is at too high a cost to everything else and prawns can be farmed now which makes so much more sense.

  10. #100

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    I edited this post as I thought whats the point!!
    It appears as if there is a few of us that care where we are going to be in 20 years and others just keep talking.

    It is everybodys resource!!

    But like all government departments no one wants to take responsibility for anything in case they offend somebody or some group.
    Do nothing and take responsibility for nothing and take home your pay with a warm fuzzy feeling.

    Good luck guys.

  11. #101

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by johncar View Post
    Hey yes Noelm, I have to agree that collectively rec fishers do have impact on the marine environment. These things also need attention and education. I honestly believe that in some respects fishers of my fathers generation were more caring and responsible where it seems the newer generation are far more careless. I was bought up with good instuction about many things to look after the waterway and bottom structures, habitat etc.
    I also pass this on to my family and crew so we do our best and are as thoughtful as we can be so I believe that some reccos are better than others because you don't have to look far to see disgusting things being done on the water by the general public. Of course it is the same with the pro's, some care and some don't. The trouble is that with the Pro's that don't give a rats about the damage, do damage in mass quantities.
    I didn't mean to hijack this post as a Trawler bash because I believe that it is very relevant due to the mass kill of juvenile fish, Mullaway and many other species and having seen the kill first hand I have no doubts at all.
    I will add that I have witnessed over 40 trawlers at night here in moreton bay doing what appeared to be a co-operative sweep back and forth and turning 10's of acres of the bay to mud and death. I just can't imagine how that can ever be compared to what we responsible or even irresponsible rec fishers do and I don't use braid line for reasons mentioned and worry enough when losing a bit of mono but I always rig so as to break at the leader for multiple reasons. I also hardly ever anchor on reef or vulnerable structure, leave no rubbish and use one of the cleaner engines I could buy. Only take a small quantity fish for the family table nothing wasted. The only thing I could do better is stay home I guess and if the govt fails to act soon of this illconcieved and undermanaged form of destruction I may as well as a day out in the boat will just be to get a tan.
    And when I am out at sea where I go to fish anyone out there is spread far and wide and perhaps only half dozen boats on the horizon and hard to imagine why that would not be sustainable, there is just no comparison really and I have no issue with Pro's personally just that method of prawning which is at too high a cost to everything else and prawns can be farmed now which makes so much more sense.
    John
    I have done some research into the trawl fishery in Queensland. If you'd like to discuss aspects of the Moreton Bay trawl fishery, you are welcome to meet me at the Aquaculture Centre on Bribie. I have some interesting info regarding trawl effort in the Bay as well some info on the area closures that came into place after the MBMP process.

    Contact me on: matthew.campbell@deedi.qld.gov.au or 3255 4229.

  12. #102

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    It is everybodys resource!!

    But like all government departments no one wants to take responsibility for anything in case they offend somebody or some group.
    Do nothing and take responsibility for nothing and take home your pay with a warm fuzzy feeling.

    Good luck guys.[/QUOTE]

    thats it really isn't steve.
    gets back to blackjew's original post?
    WHAT IS THIS GOV'T THINKING or NOT DOING

  13. #103

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    i also think the pro thing is misunderstood,on my licence it refers to me as a commercial fisher,not a pro fisher.
    support your local commercial fisher,its never too late!!

  14. #104

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Campbell View Post
    John
    I have done some research into the trawl fishery in Queensland. If you'd like to discuss aspects of the Moreton Bay trawl fishery, you are welcome to meet me at the Aquaculture Centre on Bribie. I have some interesting info regarding trawl effort in the Bay as well some info on the area closures that came into place after the MBMP process.

    Contact me on: matthew.campbell@deedi.qld.gov.au or 3255 4229.
    Thanks Matt I will call you.
    Regards John

  15. #105

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    The Real Facts on Mulloway

    29 Mar 2012
    By Mick Fletoridis

    THE big story here on fishingworld.com.au in recent weeks has been the controversial proposal involving the continuation of commercial netting targeting juvenile mulloway, aka jewfish. Not surprisingly, this issue has got rec fishos hopping mad, as evidenced by the number of readers who voted against the proposal on last week's online poll.

    This issue also revealed that pro-fishing interests have been attempting to upload propagandist comments onto the Fisho site by claiming that the practice of catch & release results in big numbers of jewie deaths and that rec anglers are the main "problem" with declining mulloway stocks.

    After discussion during the week with independent fisheries scientist (and long-time Fisho writer) Dr Ben Diggles, it has been revealed that scientific data attributes the cause of jewfish declines directly to netting. Research also indicates that catch & release for jewies is pretty effective, which is a poke in the eye to agitators like "Consumer Joe" - whoever you are ...

    According to Diggles, the latest scientific data suggests that mulloway are "growth overfished" in NSW, meaning they're under extreme fishing pressure. He also points out that the proposal to allow commercial netting of juvenile 45cm-70cm fish is a good way to see the fishery collapse.

    "Female mulloway appear to first mature at around 70cm long and 3-4 years of age, with 100 per cent mature by around 80cm (5 years old), however, in contrast males mature earlier (2-3 years old) and at a smaller size (50-55 cm, 100 per cent mature at 63 cm and 4 years old)," says Diggles.

    He told Fisho that aquaculture experience has shown mulloway have "unusual foraging and spawning characteristics". He indicates that it is also unknown whether small just matured fish actually contribute much to recruitment, compared to larger fish.
    Diggles said a 70cm minimum size for jewies may not provide enough protection from intense commercial fishing pressure and prevent further stock declines.
    "A 75cm minimum up here in QLD has been great for them, and anglers are seeing more mulloway in the 70 + cm size range, and many 70+ cm mulloway are being released, which cannot hurt the fishery at all in the long run."

    In contrast, Diggles points out that estuary trawling for prawns has been identified as a major source of mortality for juvenile mulloway and is therefore a long-term threat to the fishery. The Hawkesbury and Clarence rivers are both heavily worked by estuary prawn trawl boats.
    Diggles also refutes claims being spouted about by some elements of the commercial fishing industry that catch & release does not work for jewfish. He told Fisho that survival rates of fish caught by anglers are "quite high (around 80 per cent on bait, or even more if lures are used), especially if best practice methods of hooking and handling are used".

    Pointing to where he believes fishery management in Australia can improve, Diggles cites an American example: "In the USA, fishery managers eventually bit the bullet and raised minimum sizes to biologically relevant lengths for most important fish species that were under heavy harvest pressure, including sciaenids such as red drum (which are very similar to our mulloway). In some cases, maximum sizes were also instigated, This means that larger spawning sized fish such as 'bull' red drum were protected once they exceed the slot limit.

    "Fisheries managers in Australia could certainly learn something from studying how some US states manage their sciaenids," Diggles concluded.

    Fisho is currently sourcing a detailed scientifically based article from NSW Fisheries stating all the known facts about mulloway breeding. We'll publish it as soon as it comes to hand. Stay tuned.
    Shut up and fish

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