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  1. #46

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Campbell View Post
    It is very unlikely that trawlers would catch sea-going mullet or adult mulloway. They could easily outswim a net being trawled at 2.5kts.
    One of the older Trawler blokes here in Ballina has told me there have been quite a few incidents of accidental jew "bycatch" in prawn nets.

    They got 12 big jew one afternoon just outside Ballina bar when they shot their nets early.

    Most of these little schoolies that people are catching are Restocked fish.

    The netting fiasco has been around for a while as most of the local fishos know how hard it is to get one decent fish off the beach after the netters have passed through.

    They take everything!!
    Amateurs definitely dont get a 100% catch rate , thats for sure!

  2. #47

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Great chat blokes! I used to work on a prawn trawler in Moreton Bay and you would NOT believe how many young fish are slaughtered every night to give us prawns. From tailor to flathead ,whiting , jew, seahorses, squid, crabs. You name it it was caughy and most was dead and scraped down chutes overboard for the bronze whalers that followed every boat. Multiply this by so many boats by so many nights by so many years and you have decimated the once brilliant fishing in Moreton bay. River fishing for whiting has the same effect as the once mighty Clarence is now testament to poor/ criminal practices. Also seen much beach netting on Moreton Island for bream , blackbream and mullet ,also on Teerwah beach and Stradbroke. Remove too much food from the chain and numbers will of course suffer. I would like to see all netting of rivers banned and wild prawn catches greatly reduced. Fish farming is the way to go. Fresh water fish like Bass and Nile perch are fine for the masses Also live fish industry needs to be policed. Sick of seeing undersize Coral trout in Chinese Resteraunts tanks and undersize Red emperor in Coles and Woolies seafood sections . I love fishing but want future generatios to enjoy as well.

  3. #48

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbi View Post
    One of the older Trawler blokes here in Ballina has told me there have been quite a few incidents of accidental jew "bycatch" in prawn nets.

    They got 12 big jew one afternoon just outside Ballina bar when they shot their nets early.

    Most of these little schoolies that people are catching are Restocked fish.

    The netting fiasco has been around for a while as most of the local fishos know how hard it is to get one decent fish off the beach after the netters have passed through.

    They take everything!!
    Amateurs definitely dont get a 100% catch rate , thats for sure!
    We have done alot of research in QLD regarding trawl bycatch and very very few fish larger than 30cm are caught because they can avoid the nets - a rule of thumb is a fish can swim about 10x it's body length per second. That's not to say that some large fish are not caught but the majority are small.

    As for your statement about restocked fish - do you have any idea how many jewfish were stocked in the Richmond?

  4. #49

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Campbell View Post
    What about the source of the feed for aquaculture? 50% of the food that is fed to barra on farms is fish meal. Where would that come from?
    From farming...just like they do offshore.

  5. #50

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    As a spearfisher for over 40 years, I have observed a fair amount of mulloway behaviour in their own environment.
    In my experience there is no way mulloway will swim 10 times their body length per second for sustained periods. They are a fish that relies on ambush rather than pursuit.
    And very often they will just sit in an aggregation, or swim aimlessly about at slow speed, en-masse.
    I have had the experience of seeing spawning aggregations of around 2 tonne just sitting stationary with the larger fish of 30kg+ laying almost vertical in the water column.
    Now if a mug like me has witnessed this, someone who's livelyhood depends of catching fish, and who may well be a 2nd 3rd, or 4th generation commercial fisher, will have in all probability forgotton more about mulloway behaviour than I'll never know.
    So Matt, how do you account for the 12 big jew captured as described above, or are you just calling BS?

  6. #51

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by stonecold View Post
    Other points to consider with fish farming.

    1 What generally happens when you stick large numbers of animals in a confined space. Ie chickens in sheds, Cattle in a feedlot? Disease is a real issue and generally once one kicks the bucket its like a line of domino's. Yes we can treat disease but if your talking aquaculture its hard to contain any treatments to a ring net in the middle of a bay
    2 Im not sure of the conversion ratio in fish but I know chooks convert roughly 23% of what they eat. The rest comes out the poo shoot. What happens to all the poo shoot material in a fish farm?

    Would you be happy to see several dozen or so large ring nets full of farmed fish in Morton bay? Whats the risk if all of the fish in those nets contract a disease. Lets say for the sake of it they are snapper...what happens to the native stock of snapper?
    Thats the same excuse they used 30 years ago. Also used in Tunaville SA and Salmonville Tas.

    Why would any fisho mind if there were a cpl of dozen large ring nets in Moreton if the fishing was smokin hot.

  7. #52

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Campbell View Post
    We have done alot of research in QLD regarding trawl bycatch and very very few fish larger than 30cm are caught because they can avoid the nets - a rule of thumb is a fish can swim about 10x it's body length per second. That's not to say that some large fish are not caught but the majority are small.

    As for your statement about restocked fish - do you have any idea how many jewfish were stocked in the Richmond?
    well i will disagree with this.
    being an ex skipper in the offshore prawn trawl fishery i know that most bycatch of jewfish happens in the school prawn grounds .
    in the deeper water one would only occasionally trawl up a jew if you were very close to a structure snag or run your gear onto the snag.
    the triple gear configoration used in nsw from board to board has a herding effect on fish.
    they run in front of the gear till they get out of the way or run outta steam.
    on the occasion that you get large numbers of juvenile fish in a shot schoolie ing you shouldn't be there.
    but thats when greed and desperation to make a quid takes over with some.
    on the northern rivers one of the worst places for this i just south of the reef between ballina and evans head
    pat p from fisheries will tell you that all you ballina guys cos ive spoken with him about it a few years ago
    and yes it was a problem there just recently because i'm still in the know whats goin on even after 3 years being out of it
    just so you dont think i just done it for a year or two i spent 27 years in the fishery
    cheers
    ken

  8. #53

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by nigelr View Post
    As a spearfisher for over 40 years, I have observed a fair amount of mulloway behaviour in their own environment.
    In my experience there is no way mulloway will swim 10 times their body length per second for sustained periods. They are a fish that relies on ambush rather than pursuit.
    And very often they will just sit in an aggregation, or swim aimlessly about at slow speed, en-masse.
    I have had the experience of seeing spawning aggregations of around 2 tonne just sitting stationary with the larger fish of 30kg+ laying almost vertical in the water column.
    Now if a mug like me has witnessed this, someone who's livelyhood depends of catching fish, and who may well be a 2nd 3rd, or 4th generation commercial fisher, will have in all probability forgotton more about mulloway behaviour than I'll never know.
    So Matt, how do you account for the 12 big jew captured as described above, or are you just calling BS?
    Agree with everything you've said there Nigel apart from your second sentence. As I said in my earlier post I would never say that large fish aren't caught and don't doubt such a story. However, I would find it hard to believe that a prawn trawler would catch that many large mulloway on a regular basis. Mostly because, as you would be aware, they aren't congregating like you have described over sand but over reef where trawlers can't go.

    Maximum speed of ten body lengths per second for short speed bursts? Absolutely. You've never seen mulloway take off once one of their mates have been speared?? Never hit a big fish in a cave and been smashed by all his mates exiting the cave to get away? Never been to the bend on the south wall and seen the schoolies take off?

  9. #54

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Campbell View Post
    We have done alot of research in QLD regarding trawl bycatch and very very few fish larger than 30cm are caught because they can avoid the nets - a rule of thumb is a fish can swim about 10x it's body length per second. That's not to say that some large fish are not caught but the majority are small.

    As for your statement about restocked fish - do you have any idea how many jewfish were stocked in the Richmond?
    Onya Lucky loz for stepping up and sharing what its really like

    Mate i worked for years on prawn boats in the S.A how the bloody hell can any fish see if there is a net coming at night ,that's the time that most prawning is done. i have seen tonnes of whiting and other juvenile fish in one shot go down the chute because they are undersize,once they have been banging around in a prawn bag for an hour or 2 they certainly will not be swimming away . if they are prawning the rivers they take what ever comes along don't they .
    Shut up and fish

  10. #55

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Campbell View Post
    Agree with everything you've said there Nigel apart from your second sentence. As I said in my earlier post I would never say that large fish aren't caught and don't doubt such a story. However, I would find it hard to believe that a prawn trawler would catch that many large mulloway on a regular basis. Mostly because, as you would be aware, they aren't congregating like you have described over sand but over reef where trawlers can't go.
    Maximum speed of ten body lengths per second for short speed bursts? Absolutely. You've never seen mulloway take off once one of their mates have been speared?? Never hit a big fish in a cave and been smashed by all his mates exiting the cave to get away? Never been to the bend on the south wall and seen the schoolies take off?
    The mulloway referred to above have been taken over sand Matt.

    I stated quite clearly 'sustained periods' - read the post.

    Or have you experienced mulloway swimming for hours at 10 bodylengths per second?

  11. #56

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by nigelr View Post
    The mulloway referred to above have been taken over sand Matt.

    I stated quite clearly 'sustained periods' - read the post.

    Or have you experienced mulloway swimming for hours at 10 bodylengths per second?

    Thanks Nigel, I read your post. Sure the ones taken by the trawler were taken over sand but those big congregations you are talking about in your post occurred over reef?

    They dont need to swim for hours at speed to evade a trawler - it only takes a second. Google some trawl footage - there is heaps on the internet - and have a look at how fish behave at the mouth of a net. Given the lack of sweeps on prawn trawl nets, the herding by the gear is significantly reduced.

  12. #57

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Not sure what your point is Matt please explain?
    The large aggregation I referred to was not following prawns out of a river, neither was it following mullet or ambushing fish/prawns washed out of a river by a flood.
    I will agree with your point about the regularity of catches of the type abovementioned; a special set of circumstances need to occur such as prawn run, flood event, mullet exiting confluence in a seaward direction.
    I'll submit if they were a regular event then mulloway stocks may well be in real decline........

  13. #58

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    i think we are getting a long way off track from the thread title.
    blaming this one that one does neither side of the debate any good.
    one of the points i made earlier was the need to catch if you know the fish are undersize?
    i dont thing pros or amatuers have the right to say they are catch and release when they know before you throw a line or shoot a net that the chances are they are all undersize.
    i caught a couple of 60cms fish last weekend 1 is allready been through the frypan and the other is in the freezer to be eaten
    blackjew's original post is fine but is still reported media and we all know how bloody accurate that is.
    1500kgs of jew would go nowhere in sf/markets its stuff all 50boxes gone in 60 seconds.
    someone has to supply the people who dont catch there own fish
    we live in a society which if you can't catch /grow or hunt your own food you buy it from others.
    im our case that is the licensed commercial fishos.
    not the unliscensed shamatuers.
    and there are plenty of them in every town on the coast.
    its a bit of a touchy subject for me coming from pro back to amatuer fishing but i'm having fun
    ken

  14. #59

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by nigelr View Post
    Not sure what your point is Matt please explain?
    The large aggregation I referred to was not following prawns out of a river, neither was it following mullet or ambushing fish/prawns washed out of a river by a flood.
    I will agree with your point about the regularity of catches of the type abovementioned; a special set of circumstances need to occur such as prawn run, flood event, mullet exiting confluence in a seaward direction.
    I'll submit if they were a regular event then mulloway stocks may well be in real decline........
    My point was you brought up the aggregations you observed. Some people may have seen that post and mistakenly thought that trawlers were tagreting those aggregations. I just wanted to explain that this is not the case is all.

  15. #60

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    everybody take a big deep breath and think shit it's a nice day and i'm glad i'm still on the right side of the grass

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