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  1. #31

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    OK, so now I have your attention lets just re-cap on some stuff that was written right here, the thread title is along the lines that commercial operators can take as many fish over 45cm that they like, then a few lines into it, it is stated they can take maybe 30, maybe 50, so is that not "bending" the facts somewhat, then we have a photo of a "mullet" netter mass killing Jew at night, there is hardly a "mass kill" involved there, and looks like it maybe in broad daylight too! so what I am getting at (as well as looking for "hysterical comments") is to enforce the reason we need to talk FACTS, and fully provable facts, not just "my neighbour saw a guy" type of thing, get where I am coming rom???

  2. #32

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Gabba mate i don't go fishing everyday during the week that was my first in 6 months ,with an eye disease called keratoconus im finding it hard to get a job with one peeper that works.
    IMO Ban all prawning and nets in the rivers, that would stop the slaughter of all fish species,bring back personal cast nets to N.S.W.After spending 20 odd years in the N.T. i was blown away when i move here to find you cant use a cast net ,what a crock of shit. ,we go and catch our own bait and get a feed of prawns at the same time ,the rivers would restock in no time with tonnes of prawns binging more fish to the system.The Bass numbers would also grow in numbers ,as there would not be mass slaughter of this species as there is every year at the time they are spawning at the mouths .
    Shut up and fish

  3. #33

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    G'Day Noel, Im no "greenie" either. I didnt state it was at night in my post nor did I say it was a mass kill. I posted the pic in response to you statement

    I have yet to see any proof (and I mean PROOF not hysterical ranting) that Mullet beach netters are getting huge numbers of Mulloway, it has been written a thousand times about the spot lighting glowing eyes in the waves and so on, but still no one has ever eye witnessed these "mass kills", or taken a single photo. Oh, and I am not a beach netter!!
    The bit were it says I'm yet to see any proof. Now granted the pic has no supporting information and after an hour scouring the net looking for where I got it from, Im all but over it.
    From my perspective that is a pretty big haul of jew I'd suggest it is the entire school of breeding fish. So I guess it depends on your definition of "mass kill" Is it just this school or is it the off spring of that entire school and their off spring etc etc.
    We need to be a little carefull how we as rec anglers deal with it because if we are successfull in restricting netters from harvesting during a spawning period then we to may be restricted during that period. A case of you cant have your cake if you know what I mean

  4. #34

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    So noelm, you personally wish to totally disregard anecdotal evidence?
    Just because you personally haven't experienced a situation, it does not follow that someone else has not.
    Let me assure you that in my experience, beach-haulers taking mulloway are extremely dis-interested in having photos/videos taken of their activities, and to approach them at night, without a couple of off-duty policemen and some firearms, would be asking for trouble, at the very least.
    These folk just do not want to provide any 'evidence' of their activities; they know full well that many recs are looking for a change in this methodology.

  5. #35

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    nope, don't want to disregard anything, what I am saying is WE, and I mean WE, need to be precise and have 100% evidence before WE start sprouting what we perceive as fact, in any sort of debate that will gain us momentum in trying to reduce/stop commercial operators in certain activities or methods needs to be truth, the minute some sort of fact "bending" is discovered, any further arguments will be taken in the same way, and labled "hysterical rantings" I am not against you guys here, but we need to see what can happen, so taking that into consideration, I am looking from the "other side"

  6. #36

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    I agree whole heartedly with you Noel. Which is why I didn't go into any huge rant or rave when I posted the pic. I didn't have all the facts. Do I have the resources to provide them? Not a chance....so whats our (read as responsible rec fishos) fall back position? Rely on the relevant governing bodies to make it sustainable? I don't think there's an easy answer.
    On another issue but along similar lines. What makes us think that we as rec fishos all wear a golden halo? Yes the majority of Ausfish members do the right thing. We generally all, to the best of our ability, make sure those around us are doing the same. Members on many other rec fishing sites do the same. The issue I see is that if we looked at the members on all the fishing sites you would find that it is the same 10% of the fisho population that contribute to all the sites. I know I have a profile on several sites as do others. Now, heres the issue, whats the total fishing population of Australia? So the people actively talking about doing the right thing makes up a minor percentage of the fishing population. How do we educate and supervise the "others"?
    I know for a fact that Rabbi was on Sth wall last Saturday night. He watched a hand full of Rec fishos fill a bucket with under size tailor, everything that hit the wall went into the bucket...how is that different from a pro fisho? Before we start throwing stones lets make sure our house is not made from glass.

  7. #37

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Noelm, stonecold, true what you both say; so better we just shut up and do nothing?

  8. #38

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    nup! NEVER shut up and say nothing, but the same avenues have been tried before and failed miserably, the "pro and green" army is well organised and have factual, provable data, ( now this could be twisted to show what they want) but we are just small fragmented groups that make noise when something happens in my fishing spot, but if it is happening in your spot, I/we just send our condolances and move on, how we can get a single united group that has power and real bite is a very hard road, there is all sorts of groups and committees all over the place, and to a point, they all have their place and do good work, and what you say is 100% correct, the "fill the bucket" brigade far outweighs the carers, and that sort of info is often used as ammunition against us, can we ever stop it?? maybe, but probably not. I for one do NOT want all pro fishing just banned, it nneds to be regulated and controled, there is plenty of reasons we need pros, and that has been argued to death over the years, the ultimate solution??? you tell me.

  9. #39

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Mate, to be quite honest the only thing I can think of, bearing in mind your indesputably correct comments above, and other than sticking my head in the sand, is 'hysterical ranting'.............
    Cheers.

  10. #40

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Absoultely not, but when we do say something make sure its got substance. If I went to fisheries and said I saw 5 blokes filling buckets full of Tailor on Sth wall at Ballina on Saturday afternoon. What are they going to say?...wheres your proof. Then if I provide evidence they are going to weigh up return on investment, is it worth spending the resources in chasing them down?. As I said I don't think there's an easy answer.

    What happend with this one,

    http://www.fishingworld.com.au/news/permit-massacre.

    this story surfaced just after the story on the spawning jew that accompanied the pic I posted

    I know it was raised here on the forums. I think paragraph 6 in this article about sums it up

  11. #41

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Fish FARMING was the answer 30 years ago, and still is. Far more jobs for the same pro's, just a change of attitude.
    Many claim its not profitable and therefore unsustainable...but then we'll happily spend a billion on pink batts, but refuse to spend anything on infrastructure for sustainable fish farming, then leave those that invested massive amounts on a very worthwhile program out in the cold. Permit them a profit by funding the infrastructure investment, and the economics will then click in and make it sustainable...we just do it so half baked and only for certain large fish with large $ per kilo. A 5-10kg jewfish grows very fast by comparison with something like snapper, and could quite easily be the second main white tablefish alongside farmed barra. You do not need 50 different types of fish available to the masses. If they can farm barra they can certainly farm the humble jewie.

  12. #42

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    I guess to (kind of) sum up our problem, maybe we should be working more towards an organised State/Aus wide voice rather than trying to fight small fires all over the place and tossing rocks at people that are pissing us off in our own backyard, how this can come about is somewhat difficult, to find enough knowledgable people with the time and willingness to participate is going to be near on impossible, but I think as a united voice, we could and would do a lot of good, at the moment, all these fishing type meetings and Government bodies are all very one sided (well two if you count the greens as well) and it is ahrd to get Government backing unless there is a lot of easy votes to be had, or some sort of profitable publicity gained, then we are pushing pooo uphill. But to give up, and say nothing is not an option, forums like these can help, but they can also hinder at times.

  13. #43

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Quote Originally Posted by deckie View Post
    Fish FARMING was the answer 30 years ago, and still is. Far more jobs for the same pro's, just a change of attitude.
    Many claim its not profitable and therefore unsustainable...but then we'll happily spend a billion on pink batts, but refuse to spend anything on infrastructure for sustainable fish farming, then leave those that invested massive amounts on a very worthwhile program out in the cold. Permit them a profit by funding the infrastructure investment, and the economics will then click in and make it sustainable...we just do it so half baked and only for certain large fish with large $ per kilo. A 5-10kg jewfish grows very fast by comparison with something like snapper, and could quite easily be the second main white tablefish alongside farmed barra. You do not need 50 different types of fish available to the masses. If they can farm barra they can certainly farm the humble jewie.
    What about the source of the feed for aquaculture? 50% of the food that is fed to barra on farms is fish meal. Where would that come from?

  14. #44

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Fish farming has a part of the answer, but when all the facts are considered, it is not so rosey, farmed fish like good food, good food is other fish, so to raise a certain fish to a decent marketable size, has required a lot more food to be consumed than the (say) 25KG farmed Blurfin Tuna. I do agree that more incentive from our piss poor Government to get REAL pro fisherman to have a go would be nice, but in reality, it usually takes many thousands of dollars, and years of work, to start to get a return from aquaculture, most do not have the finances to start up, so they just go and harvest nature for not near as much outlay.

  15. #45

    Re: commercial operators can take as many fish as they like over 45cm

    Other points to consider with fish farming.

    1 What generally happens when you stick large numbers of animals in a confined space. Ie chickens in sheds, Cattle in a feedlot? Disease is a real issue and generally once one kicks the bucket its like a line of domino's. Yes we can treat disease but if your talking aquaculture its hard to contain any treatments to a ring net in the middle of a bay
    2 Im not sure of the conversion ratio in fish but I know chooks convert roughly 23% of what they eat. The rest comes out the poo shoot. What happens to all the poo shoot material in a fish farm?

    Would you be happy to see several dozen or so large ring nets full of farmed fish in Morton bay? Whats the risk if all of the fish in those nets contract a disease. Lets say for the sake of it they are snapper...what happens to the native stock of snapper?

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