Sunfish. What have they done for those of us in QLD??

[TheRealAndy]

Well blow me down. It was $50.
http://ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthr...ish+conference
My apologies. But still not economically feasible for a lot of people who may have wanted to be there.
How many people went?
Where can I see the final report? How much will that report cost me to view?

Please forgive me if I have not seen answers to my questions. I'm a simple person who needs simple answers.
How about outlining them in point form.
a) how do we see Sunfish's financials?
b) what has Sunfish done for me against the Jolly Green Giant?
c) how many kids fishing schools are there throughout the year that Sunfish sponsor and where were they?
d) How do we find out where they are and when so we may be able to help.
e) why is there no information regarding education or events on Sunfish's website seeing education is a key outcome for Sunfish?
That'll do for starters.
Ooops. Nearly forgot.
f) is it true that each 'branch' of Sunfish is not a true branch of Sunfish but a independent organisation that is just 'affiliated' with Sunfish and each branch organises the fishing schools with a little bit of financial help from Sunfish....the great?

And yes. Seeing I brought it up....why is it that Barry seems to be in the middle of each controversy that Sunfish seems to involve itself with?

I went to the sunfish forum, thats where I had the blue with Barry and Scott! IF you want to see the outcomes, email Judy Lynne judylynne@sunfishqld.com.au

If you want to see the financials, become a member and either attend the mettings or request a copy of the minutes and treasurers report.

If you want to know about what sunfish is doing go here: http://www.sunfishqld.com.au/ and read the newsletters, the latest being here: http://sunfish.realitysoftware.com.a...r=2011&month=6

[finga]

hi finga, i don't think anyone here is classing themselves as a "sunfish expert" but what boney-leg is saying in sending off an email has a bit of merit, maybe even try to track down a meeting of your local sunfish group or association (obviously not one that costs $50) to ask about what it is they do.

the reality is that by coming on here and having a go at a bunch of guys who are volunteering their time to try and promote recreational angling in queensland (either successfully or unsuccessfully as the case may be) you aren't going to get a nice response from them, basic communication skills should be telling you that.

Paddles. Mate. There is no Sunfish mob within cooee of me.
If people are willing to sprook about the merits of Sunfish and tell us of all the good that they have done then they should be able to answer a few simple questions which, when left unanswered, leave people feeling that there is something to hide.
It seems that there are plenty of times that Sunfish are encrusted with controversy such as in the latest episode with Barry as outlined in the news section here.

I have asked pretty simple questions and there have been no clear, concise answers just innuendo's and generalised statements as to what is happening.
How hard is it to find out how many kids clinics have been run in the last 12 months?
If those who sprook how good SUnfish is and seem to know what is happening then it should only be a phone call to get the numbers and where they're going to happen and problem solved. Question answered once and for all.

So I took Boney's advice and went to the horses mouth so to speak....I rang the South Moreton branch of Sunfish seeing they're the closest.
Very nice man on the phone. A very nice man indeed and it was a pleasure to have a yarn with him.
Kids clinics..... 2 have happened in roughly the last 12 months. The Lifestyle fishing day and the Take a kid Fishing day. The Lifestyle fishing day was funded by the QLD Government and the Take a Kid Fishing Day was funded by the DPI&F.
Apparently both were organised by a lone member of QAFCA.(Queensland Amateur Fishing Clubs Association Inc)

About the only clear answers have been from 2 people who have attended the fishing clinics. The only real number is 6 fishing clinics. I would like to ask some questions about who organised and paid for those clinics.
From what I can understand the organising was done by the separate organisations who Sunfish 'Central' calls their branches and the funding seems to come from another source in the two clinics that are mentioned above.
How many clinics does Sunfish (the central body and not the 'branches') organise and fund?

From past experience the only time people beat about the bush instead of answering direct questions is a) they don't know the answer, and b) they're hiding something.
I'm hoping the answer is (a) in the case of the questions I have asked.

[charleville]

Bruce..if senior management listens to the beef of every pleb below them they will achieve nothing. Senior Management must make decisions and move forward based on those decisions.
I don't hear the Governor of the Reserve Bank listening to every mortgage holder saying..no more interest rate rises.

Th biggest danger for any manager is to listen to every person under their umbrella...the danger is sinking to the lowest common denominator.
The danger is that management got to that position by their own resources and intelligence..by listening to too many others they will invariably end up being at the lowest common denominator.

This is not what I am saying, Greg.

It is not that the opinions of eveyone have to be heeded by management but it may mean that the evidence of their existence suggests that there are communications issues in regard of directions of the business.


None of this undermines strong management. It strengthens it if the troops understand why things are as they are.




.

[Macks forever]

So please Pinhead, and others, please tell us what it is that you propose should be done?

Specifically who it is in power that should do it?

What sort of representational structure do you want?

If you don't want any representational structure, what have you done that has changed anything?

What are you going to do in the next 6 months that is going to change anything?

I am not the chosen one, but it would be good to see positive constructive advice, rather than negative destructive criticism.

[PADDLES]

hi charlie, i respect your position with regards to not wanting representation of any form by sunfish, that is your personal choice. and please don't misunderstand me referring to the promotion of recreational angling to government as necessarilly being the promotion of recreational angling to the public. i am more interested in an organisation defending recreational angling from a government that is increasingly not only ignoring recreational angling as a passtime, but not even recognising recreational angling as a legitimate activity for locals and a tourism activity for visitors. and i agree with you entirely, they really should be monitoring and responding to comment on this forum (and others) as this forum does have a membership that seems to represent a very large proportion of queensland anglers.

good stuff finga, i hope you found some of the answers you were looking for by giving them a buzz.

i raised the question earlier and Macks has raised it again, what are the real alternatives? no representation at all?

[charleville]

I recall hearing in a Radio National program, a few months ago, about research into the dynamics of online forums, worldwide.

It seems that many of the really heated debates go down the path of someone's starting to make comparisons with Hitler and by that stage the discussion is off the rails, rationality is lost and the posters who use the Hitler word lose their credibility in the debate. I reckon that we often see a similar twist on Aussie debates because before long someone will start pulling out the old cliches about Aussies having died in overseas wars to defend the rights to blah...blah...blah.

So far we have not gone down that track in this debate albeit there has been a bit of self righteous indignation expressed by some. So there is still hope for some reasoned discussion.

Answering Paddles' question about what is the real alternative is hopefully where this discussion can become most fruitful otherwise it will degenerate into name calling and the self righteousness often exhibited by the logic challenged amongst us.



.

[finga]

Well I went to see the people who helped organise the last kids fishing day out here and Sunfish did provide some assistance but they think that was all through Sunfish South Moreton which is not Sunfish (the central organisation who I'm asking about what they do).
This just confirms what was told to me last night.
A lot of local business's also provided sponsorship for the local kids day like the local RSL and a butcher provided all the snags etc etc.
The local fish stocking association (who I'm a member of) also provided a huge amount of assistance to the kids day

I've also rung the DPI&F about what they provide for these fishing clinics around the state.
In short the answer the DPI&F have done nothing nor have they provided anything.
Education QLD have been doing the kids fishing clinics since November 2005 through their Outdoors Programme.

So what does the central organisation of Sunfish (not the branches as the branches are another independent organisations who seem to be only affiliated with the central Sunfish ) do these clinics?

It seems to me Sunfish (central) are basking in the glory of the hard work of many others.
But I'm sceptical..........

[PinHead]

So please Pinhead, and others, please tell us what it is that you propose should be done? Don't care

Specifically who it is in power that should do it? ditto

What sort of representational structure do you want? ditto

If you don't want any representational structure, what have you done that has changed anything? nothing

What are you going to do in the next 6 months that is going to change anything? nothing

I am not the chosen one, but it would be good to see positive constructive advice, rather than negative destructive criticism.

and here we go again..if someone disagrees trot out the old line..what have you done? simple answer is..sweet bugger all. I want to go fishing to relax and not get involved in political mumbo jumbo and he said she said..I cop that all week long with engineers who have very little idea of reality.

So..in case you missed what I have said previously:

Sunfish state they represent all rec anglers..that is a blatant lie..they do not represent me in any way shape or form no matter what they think they do.
I don't care if Sunfish gets PPV monies, I don't care if Sunfish run educational sessions for juniors.

I do care that they make ludicrious claims..5000 members from Bluefins..Enzo Drovandro would have palpitations over that claim (dunno if he is still with us)..it is primarily a social club and pokies club at Inala..sure have come a long way since I had associations with them and good luck to them.

RACQ claim they are the peak representative motoring body but they claim they only represent their members not all motorists.

The Burns Inquiry made some great recommendations..Ed Casey adopted these...yet where are they now? Gone and forgotten!!!!

YET..certain people who were on the board of that inquiry and were in favour of those recommendations seem to have forgotten them in their current roles. That I object to.

So..in summary..Sunfish can do whatever they want but stop making bullshit claims about who they represent. They are way off the mark in that respect.

[Macks forever]

Pinhead's answer to the questions says a lot. And yet he asks endless and repeated questions of nobody in particular and expects everybody to answer them, as well as make wild/inaccurate/baseless statements.

And he says he does not want to "get involved in political mumbo jumbo and he said she said.." yet that is exactly what he is perpetuating.

I asked the questions that I did in a positive move to try to elicit some positive suggestions. Alas the same old negativity.

It is not my place to answer on behalf of Sunfish but I believe Sunfish is designated by the Qld Government as the Peak Body representing rec fishers. As long as the government does that then technically Sunfish does represent all rec fishers in Qld, like it or not.

FYI I don't agree with the position of Sunfish on a few issues, so I go to see the politicians and fisheries managers and put my alternate view and tell them why I disagree with Sunfish.

The Burns Inquiry did make some great recommendaations. But again Pinhead got it wrong. Ed Casey DID NOT adopt these. He said "That is a nice report. Thankyou. I will put it on the shelf and dust it off when and if I feel like it". He had the opportunity to put them all into government policy and refused. He, and successive governments then proceded to cherrypick the easy ones and ignore the hard recommendations.

I hate repeating myself, but it seems that some people don't listen the first time. I know for a fact that Sunfish, and others, have been pursuing the outstanding recommendations of the Burns Inquiry. I know this because I have too, so I guess you can blame me too because I have failed to make the recommendations happen?

Again I hate to repeat myself, but the only people who can implement those recommendations, and have failed to do so, are the fisheries managers, and the politicians on both sides. It is time to lay the blame where it is most deserved.

[PinHead]

good grief...I wish some people would read all the thread..way back in post number 7 I said "you can ear bash your local MP over raods etc..same as i earbash mine over fisheries amongst other things."

And in case you missed it:

http://www.moretonbay.qld.gov.au/upl...-%20Image4.pdf

Notice it says under the new Act..so the Act was implemented..in case you want to have a read :

Fisheries Act 1994. http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LE.../FisherA94.pdf


amd this gem: " I believe Sunfish is designated by the Qld Government as the Peak Body representing rec fishers. As long as the government does that then technically Sunfish does represent all rec fishers in Qld, like it or not."

Sunfish states they are apolitical yet you state they dance to the Govt's puppet strings..cannot have it both ways.Anyway..don't bag me without putting up a complete CV of your activities.
No, don't bother..don't really care.I have asked bugger all questions..I have made it quite clear I don't care what Sunfish do except stating they represent me..they do not..is that too hard to understand.Lots of other people obviously want to be part of and support Sunfish..if that gives them a does of the warm and fuzzies then good on them.You are correct..the fisheries managers and pollies are to blame..therefore what is thew point of having Sunfiah at all when the Govt just does what ot wants..maybe better to just disband it if it cannot do anything as the so called peak representative body.

Anyway..enough of my opinions on this subject..I have stated where I stand...and nothing will change that.

[Macks forever]

Yep. The Fisheries Act was implemented. Quite familiar with it actually. But what is the point you were trying to make with the links, Pinhead? What did I miss?

If you ear bash your local pollies over fisheries issues then you ARE doing something. And genuinely good on you. But why did you say you have done nothing and will do nothing?

Also please show everyone where I said - "you state they dance to the Govt's puppet strings." I said no such thing. Your words, not mine.

I do not need to put up a complete CV of my activities to have the right to point out your incorrect statements and misleading information.

At least we have agreed who is really to blame - the fisheries managers and the politicians. However, I believe the situation for rec anglers would have been A LOT WORSE than it is now if there had not been a number of people and organizations [including but not exclusively Sunfish] working hard and badgering the fisheries managers and politicians over the last couple of decades.

[finga]

I went to the sunfish forum, thats where I had the blue with Barry and Scott! IF you want to see the outcomes, email Judy Lynne judylynne@sunfishqld.com.au

If you want to see the financials, become a member and either attend the mettings or request a copy of the minutes and treasurers report.

If you want to know about what sunfish is doing go here: http://www.sunfishqld.com.au/ and read the newsletters, the latest being here: http://sunfish.realitysoftware.com.a...r=2011&month=6

I sent Judy an email for some information a day or so ago. We'll see from what happens from that.

I think I'll be joining South-Moreton Sunfish the next time I'm in Brisbane to see the other details.
At least I'll know my meagre donation will go towards things like The Pin Clean Up and the Kids days.
Sunfish's AGM is coming up very soon too. I don't think I'll be in Brisbane by then but if I am I might have a gander.

I think the only reason I get my goat up is the claims that Sunfish (central) make on their website and the lack of information and the little misleading claims that are on their website which were mentioned by another member/s.
Education is but one key facet of work that Sunfish (central) say they're involved with but their education page is blank and it seems that the sub branches are the ones doing the hard yards with education.
What about the other facets of work Sunfish (central) say are key components of their work?
It seems to me that the central "Sunfish" are basking in the glory of the hard work the other associations that share the Sunfish name are doing.
Only way to see what is really happening is been involved I suppose.

Personally I think there is good reason to have at least 2 bodies that represent those anglers that want to be represented.
A single body will always be prone to 'controversy' whether it be warranted or not.
The present controversy involving snapper bag limits and requirements is a prime example. One bloke went to a meeting. What happened in that meeting?? If at least two blokes attended well the outcome may have been different.
More then one body would alleviate this and they might be able to communicate better with different spectrum's of the community a fair bit easier.

[FNQCairns]

I don't like sunfish, no lasting good comes from them, i know they had a make-over a while ago after their former colors where shown brightly so....reinvent with simple government appealing spin...trouble is, has anyone Angler ever read their charter??

Seriously their charter speaks volumes, it's not about the sport it's about the money and position, of coarse they will mouth different just like during RAP etc but their charter spells it out plain and simple.... pandering to government ideology is their aim....the anglers come way last...an organization simply cannot look after the grass roots and keep that charter.

Sunfish is simply lucky the government sponsored environmental zealot attacks on anglers has calmed down after them and sunfishes resounding wins of a few years past in decreasing angler amenity/ access and choice, otherwise sunfish would have by now and again been forced as per charter to side with government against anglers to keep their favored position.

Time will come again.

[Black_Rat]

Sunfish and Unions are the same.

In principle there great, but on delivery they fail ! and fail ! and fail ! and fail !

Full of shit !!! No way to sugar coat it really

Both are full of shit !

Happy for one of them to prove me wrong ? ...............................................

[PinHead]

Yep. The Fisheries Act was implemented. Quite familiar with it actually. But what is the point you were trying to make with the links, Pinhead? What did I miss?

If you ear bash your local pollies over fisheries issues then you ARE doing something. And genuinely good on you. But why did you say you have done nothing and will do nothing?

Also please show everyone where I said - "you state they dance to the Govt's puppet strings." I said no such thing. Your words, not mine.

I do not need to put up a complete CV of my activities to have the right to point out your incorrect statements and misleading information.

At least we have agreed who is really to blame - the fisheries managers and the politicians. However, I believe the situation for rec anglers would have been A LOT WORSE than it is now if there had not been a number of people and organizations [including but not exclusively Sunfish] working hard and badgering the fisheries managers and politicians over the last couple of decades.

and there is a piece of incorrect and misleading waffle if ever there was any written.

Thanks Damo..you summed up the situation perfectly.