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& I'm living in the pastOriginally Posted by Skusto
I think OMC collapsed 10 years ago
LOL..and the Leyland P76 won car of the year also..says a lot about awards
& I'm living in the past
I think OMC collapsed 10 years ago
Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
Teach him how to fish
& he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
TEAM MOJIKO
Nagg actually it was 12 years ago
Does anyone know if the newer "post 2009"Etec injector still requires to be mapped into the ECU?
Garry
Retired Honda Master Tech
i thought we weren't going to be crazy?................lol
It's probably worth mentioning here that if the Haines Group hadn't made a decision to push the Suzuki brand, then we wouldn't even see the new breed Suzuki outboards here in Australia.....
Suzuki obviously don't care at all about the miniscule Australian market becasue if they did, then they would be self represented, like every other MAJOR outboard brand.
So its worth considering the brand you buy and do they even represent themselves in this country. And if they don't, well you draw your own conclusions....
BRP are represented here by BRP. Suzuki are not... Don't think they ever have been actually which is why they have been here today, gone tomorrow, back again and gone again.....
Food for thought..
Actually it was Dec 15th 2000 when they shut the doors & a week later filed for bankruptcy - ...... so not 11 years yet!Nagg actually it was 12 years ago
Does anyone know if the newer "post 2009"Etec injector still requires to be mapped into the ECU?
Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
Teach him how to fish
& he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
TEAM MOJIKO
I took a gamble on a suzuki back in 2008. After they ran tail between legs from the Aussie market the first time I was sceptical to try them out on their second run into Australia. So far I am very happy with my little 50hp 4 stroke......Will not go back to a 2 stroke on any boat I own since this one. The twin yammie high thrust 60's are very nice also.
In saying that, I fully support an Australians choice to own a old tech carby 2 stroke if he choses.
Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.
While I am not a Etec owner to see the rabid anti etec sentiment by people who have never come within sniffing distance of one is annoying, Oldboot so then Pagani and Koenigsegg and Stryker must all be crap as well? I see your name is apt as you think like a old person.
At some point almost everything we use in daily life was new untried technology and subject to ridicule as an example Oldboot what about the Beetle with its aircooled flat four engine, produced by a small company that no one outside of Germany had heard of, that was an idea that would never work yet look where VW is today?
Do you remember the outcry when cars arrived with fuel injection, and heaven forbid it was fitted to 4wd vehicles?
The simple fact is a 2 stroke motor has twice the amount of power pulses as a 4 stroke engine hence a small 2 stroke will make the same amount of power as a larger 4 stroke, the only thing that killed 2 strokes in the mass market were the emission laws and the Opti's and Etecs are solving that problem.
If the day comes that I need to repower I would certainly look at one.
BOAT really does mean Bring out Another Thousand
Yes........Nagg actually it was 12 years ago
Does anyone know if the newer "post 2009"Etec injector still requires to be mapped into the ECU?
There was no doubt that Suzuki had a stigma to overcome - their previous models were not very well regarded and then they disappeared.
I'm not sure when they reappeared under the Haines group but I know in 2006 when I was looking ...... it was a case of thanks but no thanks - the dealer network was pretty poor & I just didn't have any faith ......... 5 years down the line it would be line ball as the number 1 choice & in certain sizes #1 - they certainly have a solid reputation now & I reckon would probably be #1 in customer satisfaction.
Chris
Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
Teach him how to fish
& he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
TEAM MOJIKO
Pegani and konegzzezezeg and all other small scale supercar manufacturers are completely irrelivent to most people because they do not make product for the mass market, nor do they make outboard motors, they are a complete irelivancy in a discussion about a car any of us would buy, they are a rediculous irrelivency in a discussion about outboard motors.
BRP is a small scale manufacturer competeing in the high volume, mass market, with a common ordinary mass market product, built on a production line, they are not a high end, individually, hand made operation. They are small in comparison to their major competitors.
Their entire staff and annual budjet is probaly less that that or the R&D department at Honda. Further Honda have many decades of experience in R&D and engine development, there will be Juniour engineers that have been in the Honda R&D department longer than BRP has been in existance...and that is only 1 example.
As for the Etec being only 1 step beyond the crude old 2 stroke.....it remains so, the one step is direct injection of the fuel into the combustion chamber. It is still a basic two stroke motor, the air intake still comes thru the crank case, and the oil pump is only there because it is necessitated by the direct fuel injection..there is no longer fuel to carry the oil thru the crak case.
Besides, the absence of fuel from the crank case is the same in all direct injection two strokes.
All the other manufacturers have been dealing with direct injection in two strokes for decades.
The one and only single point of difference between the Etec and any other direct injection two stroke is the fitch injector..from whence a large share of the reported problems come.
The remainder of the reported problems come from simple and straight forward failure in quality control.
I find it fascinating that people winge about information sourced from the internet, yet, they are discussing on the internet.
The internet is simple a means of information transmission, without it lots of people would be ignorant of a great many issues, with out it a great many failings and issues would not come to light.
It is interesting that none of the other manufacturers, most of which have been making two stroke motors in many forms for many decades are not looking at two stroke as their premium product, in fact in almost all cases the trend is into developing 4 stroke technologies.
While a 2 stroke may have more power strokes per RPM, the fact remains that it does not and can not completly clear the cylinder of exhaust or completly fill with fresh air, at any time. and there is simpley no way arround oil comming from the crankcase, into the combustion chamber and being burnt.
The two stroke is inherently dirty and inefficient, and the only way it can be cleaned up is to push the process to its limits of operation before distruction, the biggest of which is starving it of lubricant.
the entire clean two stroke idea revolves arround making the motor run on the edge of distruction, where as the developments in 4 stroke revolve arround making the process work more efficiently within its normal and practical operating range.....developments that are being developed and proven outside outboard motor applications.
As for none of this being new..well exactly...it is simple being made more practical and affordable for the mass market.
Lets face it, all manyfacturers of every thing have their monents, the all make better and worse products....BRP's problem is that they have only 1 outboard engine product.
cheers
Its the details, those little details, that make the difference.
lets call it FICHT and not Fitch!
I don't think it is the FICHT injector that is/was at fault, the e-tec (and lets not confuse e-tec with FICHT, the two are poles apart in how they operate) BRP and OMC before that, used fuel injection (like Yamaha and Mercury and others) in their two strokes, however, they work on different principals, some use a low pressure rail and mix the fuel with the oil, BRP use a high pressure rail and do not mix the oil with the petrol (as we know it) a very small amount is added to vital spots in the motor, which is them burnt almost entirely, the argument is, you have 100% fresh oil at the major places, whereas with a 4 stroke sump, the same oil is being used (and filtered) time and time again, all the while picking up tiny bits of "scrap". Now whether the BRP system is more troublesome than Yamaha's or Mercury's (I think not) is anyone's guess, the story still comes back to any e-tec that has anything wrong (even the top off) makes headlines! and the battle will rage for ever more.
thank you very much oldboot..your long winded posts based on nothing but you prowling the net, have just about cured my insomnia.
you are correct oldboot, there are still a couple of issues inherent with the basic operation of a 2 stroke engine that aren't necessarilly desirable.
one is the "overlap" between the exhaust and inlet ports, but i thought this was pretty much eliminated as an emmissions issue with direct injection as it's only fresh air pushing the spent gases out and not air/fuel mix as you'd expect in a conventional 2 stroke. ie. the injector doesn't add fuel to the combustion chamber until the exhaust port is covered up by the upward stroke of the piston, hence it having to be done at very high pressure.
the other is the scavenging and burning of lube oil out of the crankcase. in one way the new system is better in that it's directly squirting lube oil into the bearings which has two good outcomes, you are only using fresh/clean oil to lube bearings and because you are directly placing it, and not just relying on some of it to be deposited by the pre-mixed fuel on the way through, you are using/burning a whole heap less. but the down side that's always going to be there with a 2 stroke of any sort is that spent oil still has to be scavenged and then burnt and pushed out the exhaust albeit in very low quantities. i don't know the real facts/figures but i'd imagine that the difference in oil consumption between conventional and di 2 strokes would be massive.
as far as this technology not being pushed by any of the other bigger manufacturers, well i can only speculate that they'd not bother because not only do they not hold the patent for the ETEC injector system (so they can't simply copy the technology), but it's not in their financial interests to pursue it either. ie. it's way cheaper for them to stick with the development of existing 4 stroke technology than it is for them to fork out millions of dollars in r&d cash to come up with a technology that's better than the ETEC system. to put it simply, BRP have cornered the market for di 2 strokes, they know they have got the best currently available direct injection 2 stroke concept/engineering and they'll stick with it until someone comes up with something better.
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