Page 2 of 21 FirstFirst 123456789101112 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 315

Thread: Snapper Ban and Associated issues. merged threads

  1. #16

    Re: Snapper Ban time: will Wally wimp out to the Greens ... what's your guess ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_Phill View Post
    Not speaking for Mark.

    But,

    It is ECOfishers proposed policy ( which may be undertaken by the LNP ) that, if the Peer reviewed, independent science says there is an issue / problem, then all steps and suggestions to address the issue will be taken.

    No point putting our head in the sand if there are problems.

    I, personally, believe we need to address any problem within any area of the fishery as soon as possible with the right solutions based on good research and advice.

    Rec fishos have been calling for the right science for years now, if we get that science we can only get behind it.


    LP.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Who would you want to do the science, Phil? What agency?

  2. #17

    Re: Snapper Ban time: will Wally wimp out to the Greens ... what's your guess ???

    Personally I don't like to see angling conservation issues like this being kicked around like a political football. I reckon if the science is good or beyond doubt then it should prevail for the greater good.

    Lots of people comment that the closed season on snapper isn't worth 2 knobs of goat poo because they're now out there bagging out on snapper and the fish doesn't seem to be as rare as these scientists think. Now I'm no scientist, and generally I don't even target snapper, but to me this would seem to indicate that a closed season has actually worked.

    What we seem to forget is that due to the krap weather and the flooding we experienced earlier in the year, the recreational fishing impact on the bay was minimised greatly ie. due to the weather we effectively had quite a large "closed season" earlier this year. This may actually be seen by some to indicate that looking into the future even longer closed seasons may work even better.

    As for me, well I'm not into closed seasons at all, I'm into reduced bag limits and fish whenever you like.

  3. #18

    Re: Snapper Ban time: will Wally wimp out to the Greens ... what's your guess ???

    Mark, do you think there will be adequete amount of time to get accurate representative assessment on our rocky reef fish stocks between the last 'assessment' that was viewed unfavourably by rec fishos and a new assessment before the lnp announce their policies prior to an election?

    Dont get me wrong - not having a go at anyone but i think good science on stock assessment takes much longer than your time frame especially if it has to go through an independant review process.

  4. #19

    Re: Snapper Ban time: will Wally wimp out to the Greens ... what's your guess ???

    Quote Originally Posted by PADDLES View Post
    Personally I don't like to see angling conservation issues like this being kicked around like a political football. I reckon if the science is good or beyond doubt then it should prevail for the greater good.

    Lots of people comment that the closed season on snapper isn't worth 2 knobs of goat poo because they're now out there bagging out on snapper and the fish doesn't seem to be as rare as these scientists think. Now I'm no scientist, and generally I don't even target snapper, but to me this would seem to indicate that a closed season has actually worked.

    What we seem to forget is that due to the krap weather and the flooding we experienced earlier in the year, the recreational fishing impact on the bay was minimised greatly ie. due to the weather we effectively had quite a large "closed season" earlier this year. This may actually be seen by some to indicate that looking into the future even longer closed seasons may work even better.

    As for me, well I'm not into closed seasons at all, I'm into reduced bag limits and fish whenever you like.
    PAddles, the effects of closures- or any fishing regulation wont be seen in the fish population for a good number of years. The idea of this type of regulation is to increase the size of the broodstock which in turn produces more fish. It therefore takes at least a full breeding season plus time to reach a catchable sizze for any gains to be seen. With snapper I would hazard a guess at 4-5 years before any noticible change. In fact one of the main arguments against the introduction of closures is that the decreased bag limits and increased size limits have not been in play long enough to establish whether the regulation has had any effect.

    So I would say there are other factors influencing the good season for snapper. My guess is the large influx of nutrients washed into the ocean with the floods has stimulated big algal and zooplankton blooms so have kickstarted the food chain from the bottom up. Similar effect to an upwelling zone bringing a heap of nutrients to the surface. Im with ya on lower bag limits but no limits on when I can fish- the weather does that job already.


  5. #20

    Re: Snapper Ban time: will Wally wimp out to the Greens ... what's your guess ???

    [QUOTE= He is a Minister of the Crown..you may not like the man personally but you must respect the position..that is what our democracy is based on.[/QUOTE]
    Sorry mate, it is a one way street.
    When politicians respect the voters than I will respect the politicians.
    Until then they are "full off" and they keep on proving it.

  6. #21

    Re: Snapper Ban time: will Wally wimp out to the Greens ... what's your guess ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt_Campbell View Post
    Who would you want to do the science, Phil? What agency?
    Thanks for the question Matt.

    Not an easy one to answer.

    1. We currently have a very good scientist in Southern Fisheries who is more than well acquainted with Qld's Snapper Fishery.

    2. I believe that the CSIRO also have good people.

    3. A lot of Snapper stock assessment and research has been done.

    4. Modelling is an issue as many factors are either unknown or not taken into consideration.

    5. No independent, peer reviewed assessment of the data supplied by Southern Fisheries has been done.

    In short, I suppose, I would be happy with a State and Federal research project that looked at the Snapper history records and then made a stock assessment that is current. Have that independently, peer reviewed and make management calls after that.

    The science has to include many factors.

    Certainly a fairly accurate recreational take is important, as is seasonal climate conditions and landbased management practices, all of which were lacking in all previous stock assessments.

    The big problem I see, still stands with Policing of regulations. This can be addressed by pro-active education programs and engaging with recreational anglers frequently to ascertain their understanding of the fishery and the regulations.

    Fishing and Boating Patrol Officers should be seen as your friends and educators, but if you are intentionally and knowingly breaking the rules, then .... severe.... punishment needs to be handed out.

    We must stop legislating for the minority.

    LP.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Kingfisher Painting Solutions:- Domestic and Commercial.

    For further information, contact details, quotes or advice - Click Here





  7. #22

    Re: Snapper Ban time: will Wally wimp out to the Greens ... what's your guess ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Robinson MP View Post
    Unlike the Bligh Labor govt, the LNP has no plans to introduce snapper bans.
    well Mark...that comment may come back and bit you one day. If the LNP does win the next election and the LNP does initiate some serious reasearch on snapper stocks and IF said research recommends closures and IF you are the Minister for Fisheries, you won't be able to instigate those closures..or will you ?

    Don't take it personally Mark but the general public really are tired of pre election statements. eg..there will be no carbon tax under a Government I lead.

    Another tip...Campbell really does need to do some hard selling and quickly. His reputation in Brisbane is not all that rosy..things like a tunnel that went broke and now costing all of us a fortune..a ludicrous pushbike hire system.

  8. #23

    Re: Snapper Ban time: will Wally wimp out to the Greens ... what's your guess ???

    Absolutely spot on pinhead, I am one of the general public you describe. I can't stand it when a politician makes an "off the cuff" statement or promise???? as part of his/her electioneering, knowing full well that they cannot make/hold that promise.

    I do realise fully that Mark has very carefully worded his statement (and rightly so) by saying that there are "no plans", that does not mean that it may not necessarilly happen, it just means that there are no current plans. And that brings us back to previous comments made in this thread, just what is the LNP plan?

  9. #24

    Re: Snapper Ban time: will Wally wimp out to the Greens ... what's your guess ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_Phill View Post
    Thanks for the question Matt.

    Not an easy one to answer.

    1. We currently have a very good scientist in Southern Fisheries who is more than well acquainted with Qld's Snapper Fishery.

    2. I believe that the CSIRO also have good people.

    3. A lot of Snapper stock assessment and research has been done.

    4. Modelling is an issue as many factors are either unknown or not taken into consideration.

    5. No independent, peer reviewed assessment of the data supplied by Southern Fisheries has been done.

    In short, I suppose, I would be happy with a State and Federal research project that looked at the Snapper history records and then made a stock assessment that is current. Have that independently, peer reviewed and make management calls after that.

    The science has to include many factors.

    Certainly a fairly accurate recreational take is important, as is seasonal climate conditions and landbased management practices, all of which were lacking in all previous stock assessments.

    The big problem I see, still stands with Policing of regulations. This can be addressed by pro-active education programs and engaging with recreational anglers frequently to ascertain their understanding of the fishery and the regulations.

    Fishing and Boating Patrol Officers should be seen as your friends and educators, but if you are intentionally and knowingly breaking the rules, then .... severe.... punishment needs to be handed out.

    We must stop legislating for the minority.

    LP.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Not true. I have seen plenty of papers that have been peer reviewed. The snapper paper was actually reviewed by to independent scientists, one who his high regarded in the field.


  10. #25

    Re: Snapper Ban time: will Wally wimp out to the Greens ... what's your guess ???

    Andy, the Snapper paper you refer to was the assessment ( that was to do with the modeling ).

    The science I elude to is the actual data from the research.

    It is a complicated issue.

    Cheers Phill
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Kingfisher Painting Solutions:- Domestic and Commercial.

    For further information, contact details, quotes or advice - Click Here





  11. #26

    Re: Snapper Ban time: will Wally wimp out to the Greens ... what's your guess ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_Phill View Post
    Andy, the Snapper paper you refer to was the assessment ( that was to do with the modeling ).

    The science I elude to is the actual data from the research.

    It is a complicated issue.

    Cheers Phill
    .
    .
    .
    .
    You might like to clarify that Phill. The point Andy elluded to was- No independent, peer reviewed assessment of the data supplied by Southern Fisheries has been done.

    So the paper Andy referd to was the assessment of the data.

    Im sure the data would be available even if FOI needs to be used. That said raw data by itself doesnt begin to tell the story until it is analysed. Your responce just seems to conflict with your earlier post.


  12. #27

    Re: Snapper Ban time: will Wally wimp out to the Greens ... what's your guess ???

    OK, I'll bite.

    There are many " factors " supplied for " input " for modelling that provides a report of the Snapper Stocks assessment.

    Some very important factors were not provided for " input ".

    Other factors were not independently peer reviewed.

    BUT, the Stock assessment was independently ( New Zealand fellow ) peer reviewed and the conclusion was that the " Methodology was shakey, but the assessment was accurate, " given the inputs ".

    Simply put, a + b = c. c being a number somewhere between x and z.

    If we provided better input, c would = y............ a much more accurate figure.

    We are getting off track here. The Snapper issue has been dealt with in other parts of AF and the public arena.

    It is not up to me or any other individual to say to government what they want in so far as real science. I stated what I want, but would any government listen to me or joe blow down the road. A I have stated before, we, and other stakeholders have made representations to all political parties on what we see as " a way forward out of the bog hole we are currently in".

    They have asked for input, and we have given it, to the best of our ability and knowledge. What any party does with that input is their business. Having said that, and I will repeat, all parties are taking notice of the rec fishing voice.

    I will not side with anyone, but here's a heads up.

    If some one asked me to give them a quote for a job, to be done in 12 months or more time.... Could I realistically provide an accurate quote ? OR, would I include a proviso of changed circumstances affecting the quote ?

    Getting off track again.

    What was the question ?

    LP.



    >
    .
    Kingfisher Painting Solutions:- Domestic and Commercial.

    For further information, contact details, quotes or advice - Click Here





  13. #28

    Re: Snapper Ban time: will Wally wimp out to the Greens ... what's your guess ???

    A question for the Honourable Mark Robinson MP

    "Can you please give me some details of the research the LNP has planned to initiate when it takes power and what funding model is proposed?"

    I have looked at the current data sources and the modelling used and most people who have done so would probably back some Snapper fishery management interventions to help the fishery. The issue is complicated but several studies seem to support the idea that the fishery is overfished. All of this research is subjective to some extent but it all comes up with pretty much the same conclusions so mark can you give an answer to the above question especially how it differs to what is already underway?

    By the way this is not an attack on the LNP and I certainly appreciate you coming onto AF to discuss this issue
    A Proud Member of
    "The Rebel Alliance"

  14. #29

    Lightbulb Re: Snapper Ban time: will Wally wimp out to the Greens ... what's your guess ???

    Hi Mark ,I don't care whether Wally Wimps or not , I just hope if you get the chance , you don't

    Anyways Mark....left-field suggestion.
    IF a "closed period" is ever deemed necessary...note: "TO protect the large Breeders"

    MY imo , is too during that TIME only.....you consider making the species, a slot-limit of 30cms~50cms (5 bag)

    jmo
    Gazza

  15. #30

    Re: Snapper Ban time: will Wally wimp out to the Greens ... what's your guess ???

    And a real issue is who is going to help any agency get "real" data? Currently the MQ charter operators have a contract to supply data to the LTMP of Fisheries. This is a contractual arrangement which I believes helps the professional image of the charter sector, provides a reliable & verifiable data set when correlated with compulsory Fisheries logs, etc.

    Sunfish have stated on any number of occasions that you can't accurately count Snapper caught by the rec sector so why even try? Check out the Sunfish submission on behalf of all rec anglers if you disagree.

    Maybe another question is how will ALL fishermen attempt to create working relationships with Fisheries managers for the good of ALL fishermen to provide sustainable access to our fishing resources.

    When there is uncertainty over fish stocks, DERM (EPA) win because they can invoke the precautionary principle in shutting down large tracts of our fishing grounds. Either collectively we are part of the solution or if we deny access to real time catch data, Fisheries are consigned to the bin and we will have more MPAs.

    And the fact that LNP want to produce a scientific response to the Green ethos of "shut it down, lock it up" requires cooperation from fishing groups to supply info otherwise we will all be down the gurgler again.

    Cheers,

    Keith

    And if Fisheries have a process in place to obtain "real" catch & other data, then they will have the ammunition to refute the Green demands to close off 30% or more of our fishing grounds.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Join us