Travelling in the dark

[Spaniard_King]

Big difference between spotlighting and driving using lights as headlights.

I can't beleive some of the arragant remarks surfacing in this thread towards others on the water at night.

[Mister]

Puts a chill up ya spine to think there's clowns running aorund in the dark with attitudes like they have.

Yet some talk about assessing the risk? More like trying to convince themselves against the odds, convince yourself all you like the consequence does not change.

[Angla]

In the real world where I was travelling pre Twilight in a Norterly direction past Coolum, about 2 Km off shore, I would have run over a unlit kayakker and most likely killed him if it were not for my searchlight. That's the truth here and the only reason that dumbass is still alive. It was a moonless night but the stars were out so I may have been able to travel without the searchlight but would I still have been able to see him? I cannot answer that for you skeptics.

Cheers
Chris

[Richo1]

What will it take for some of these guys to get the message, with Kyakking becoming an increasing trend there will alot more out on the water and in the hours of darkness. The rowers haven't got the message on the river yet, even after being run over a few times!
Angla from the earlier photo of your search light, i like the position you have it mounted, under the bowsprit. It would be least likely to interfere with your nav lights, or hit another boatie of similar size or larger in the eyes. Looks like you have a nice rig there.

[TimiBoy]

No substitute for Radar at night. Mine would show waves for bar crossing, and picked up whales surfacing, kayaks, boats and rocks. In night, in fog. My next tub will of course have it.

As for people with searchlights? If you need it, fine, but I don't hold with just driving with them on - I will always stop until you've gone.

Cheers,

tim

[deckie]

Deckie, I think you are missing the point of what a few of us are saying. Many of us have a spottie on hand to check out anything that looks a bit suss but for most of the time we run with minimal lighting. I will often stooge around for a few minutes after giving a spotty blast to allow my eyes to adapt again before taking off again. If not I'm running blind

As for the angles that a boats fixed spotties are aiming at you have realise that a boat is moving in three directions at once and the ones that run floodlights are shooting all over the place. It only takes a moment of head on with a bright light and others are in trouble. Even when they are not pointed at you they "kill" the red and gren navigation lights which are so important for others to determine what direction another vessel is travelling in

For those that say they need floodlights to feel safe I ask if they have ever tried the alternative

Nahhh 'm not missing any point, and yes i think most have tried all alternatives to be safer, other than perhaps radar and flir etc which unless you;re running 7m plus rigs just isnt practical lets face it...nor would i trust a radar anyway just like i dont trust a gps..theyre just tools to HELP like a spottie on occasions. In fact i'd say i run things pretty similar to everyone else and rely on the same night vision running dark. I just dont want to exaggerate anything after so much time out there. I stare into the same lights, same spotties hit me as hit everyone else right ? Why is it i dont have this much of a problem that a few others in here seem to ? Yes i know the effect on my eyes but i'd rather not whine about a bloke at least preparted to be seen and wanting to see you...i cant hit him or any guy behind him for that matter.

Where i differ is on the safety aspect as well as the practicality of it all out there. It took how many years ?? for a simple rule change about our anchor lights to force people to make them visible. Still in here we had people saying it was stupid or arguing over moot points when they knew all the rule was trying to say. Silly little weak anchor lights stuck down back where u cant see them was one of my big beefs, finally it was changed. THEN i find out a huge number actually thought their anchor light was supposed to be only when u anchor . Its a clue to what is out there..never doubt the power of stupidity ..its real and often right in front of you at night. Why risk it. With the advent of led's getting more powerful maybe its now time to force nav lights on small craft to also be more powerful, but thats another gripe in itself. The problem is not with bigger rigs/ferries/ships/workboats etc...not only are they better lit but also skippered by experienced/qaulified guys...its still the car topper/yaktwit/oldguy with a handline/waterfront kid that snuck out for a fish.. etc etc.

In a nutshell u are either underway or not ...if u stick to two things you;ll be safe...PLENTY of LIGHT so you can be seen at rest as well as underway....plus going slow. Combine the two with the rules of night nav and noone really has any problem with YOU, other than maybe the odd whinger about being somehow thrust into a state of amazing sudden blindness where they need to pull over and take a rest for 3 minutes or longer ?? Spare me the exaggeration is what i'm also asking...i dont need to think about it..i'm out there myself so i know. I know the effect well but i'm not about to complain about someone who wants to be seen and to see...its the weekend warrior with his amazingly sensitive catlike night vision thats darkened himself out apart from a cpl of piss weak old halogen nav lights and an all round down the back that pisses me off. When you;re going past waterfronts or lots of reflected light its just as confusing or invisible as anything in realty. You need to darken your own rig yes..but not at the expense of safety toward others. Maybe it just doesnt effect me as much but perhaps its also coz i look away as any sensible person would driving anything.

Unfortunately we live in the real world and cant trust others to care. After scarey experiences you take precautions. What i do know is WHERE they'll be in my system. Any significant point or any significant isolated marker...if the tides running out and i'm running with it they'll be just around the corner in the eddy...fishing where you might. So i'll take a wide berth but swipe the spottie across as i'm going around just in case. This is in areas of zero light...all national park, dark as you can get. If thats a pain for someone at rest i dont giveashit...they should thank me for not taking ANY risk with their lives by pretending i have some sort of nocturnal vision. They're just as likely to be in the middle of the channel..when people fish they dont think.

Break down what causes accidents at night. What is the most common over riding factor other than perhaps grog ?.... SOMEONE COULDNT BE SEEN ! Head on collisions by comparison to others seem far less a risk but still related to the same thing...SOMEONE COULDNT BE SEEN, and when happening usually its coz some idiot was pissed or just going too fast to have any reaction time on enclosed waters with traffic. The enquiries that follow most serious accidents at night so often seem to involve one parked and one underway..or one small vessel with very little or no lighting being "run over". Either way the ONLY consistent SAFETY factors are LACK OF LIGHT and SPEED. Its not a bloke being so called "blinded" by someones light suddenly veering up onto rocks or smashing into another rig....its possible like a thousand other things but just not the problem others seem to think it is. My guess is some just get a hatred for a spottie coz its a pain to them...instead of realising what it means..they're safe from that guy...its whinging without thinking of the benefits. Point is too much light in any form isnt as big a safety issue as too little light.

We conform to rules, though often a bit loosely coz some things arnt practical. I dont carry a glove and bag in case the dog takes a shit on someones nature strip, so hang me...some things just aint practical. The yak that angla came across is just normal in big city waterways like Syd. Wont be me that hits him..i hope. Far more likely to be the bloke straining his eyes to see ahead in the dark, or thinking his night vision is something it really isnt.

Two more things u should consider. Anyone thats been out a bit knows you can hear a 2 stroke coming a mile off...not as easy to hear 4 strokes so u tend to see guys parked swiping a torch if they hear a motor, making double sure they've been seen. Whether thats legal or not as well i dont care nor blame them at all..its safety.

The other thing is guys who run pretty solid deck lights. You see these hella powerbeam things and you;re talking almost the same thing as a spottie...same effect. Then you have the guy who runs his deck lights on the same curcuit as his huge docking light up on the flybridge...run em off their onan all bloody night to party out there...they dont just shine down either. You want to think laws ?... that will confuse just as many as anything else and cause your "night vision" just as many problems. Why whinge tho ?..he can be seen..you know he's there.

How about you be safe and safe to others, instead of whinging or being selfish about your precious night vision we all use.

[seren-y-mor]

Is there a rule that says I cannot run a search light for travelling at night?
Do you operate your fast cat ferry across the bay in areas where fisho's lay crab pots?
Have you tried coming back in 25 knotts and pitch black conditions around Combuyoro at night?

I think your eyes will adjust once I have gone past safely and considerately.

Has a 24 metre Fast Cat Ferry ever hit another vessel? I haven't, day or night!

Cheers
Chris

rule 20 part b application, learn your col regs angla or should you now be known as capt pugwash
do you seriously think that your examples in the above text havent been encounterd by anyone else?
or maybe you havnt hit anything or caused somone else to hit anything is because you only head out once or twice a month

[trueblue]

all oilfield supply boats and crew boats (IMO boats - 80 to 150 feet etc) all run massive spotlights and their masters certainly don't get concerned about throwing down a massive beam of light where necessary to ensure nothing goes bump in the night.

By massive spotlight I mean a 2 foot diameter remote control search light mounted on the bridge roof about 40 feet above waterline - lights that throw a solid searching beam about half a mile and can be seen as a bright light to the horizon - and these masters don't stop using them just because there is another vessel in the area - all they do is avoid putting the beam onto the other boats in the area

and when they use these big search lights their normal navigational lights are all visible



I fail to see the issue with use of a very small spotlight mounted on a recreational boat under the bowsprit, about 2 feet off the water.

[Mister]

Here we go, the consequence of travelling in the dark
http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/sho...=1#post1287574

Consequence Severity major, probability has occured and will occur again, resulting in financial loss, embarrassment (to say the least) but high probability of significant injury possibly resulting in multiple fatalities.

[deckie]

This will go nowhere and the guy asking will learn nothing unless people dont blow it off. Its bloody important.

Thylacene..hopefully reading this thread will at least let u know there are plenty of idiots out there. Most just pig headed, selfish or will never change their ways. You get the distinct impression some have never even run up a mangrove lined creek on a dark night or got around anywhere but a gold coast channel or where there's plenty of light reflected anyway.

Here's some more reality of what you're up against at night. So the upshot is to simply think safety first about YOUR safety.. That also takes care of the other bloke normally.

-Maritime nsw and as far as i know qld too...its not acutally law they need to light every pole, marker or even a bridge pylon. Thats telling you something..its up to YOU to see it with enough warning DESPITE their rules which make it harder to see them. Go figure but thats the way it is...dont trust ANY marker light is even working. The poor bastard that rammed a 6m haines into a hawkesbury road bridge pylon yrs ago unforunately isnt here to tell us what might have helped, but u can guess right ?
-Accidents happen but heres some more reality...hpw can a 25m fast river cat run smack into a stationary 40 footer under the sydney harbour bridge ?..some of the busiest and well lit water around. SPEED thats how...and probably lack of lighting too. If ferry drivers are half as bad as train drivers half could be stoned for all we know. DONT TRUST ANYONE CAN SEE YOU. What we get from horrible accidents is half arse new rules...u better wear a lifejacket in case, and slap a speed limit IN THAT SPOT ONLY. Nothing about preventing it in the first place or stopping it elsewhere.
- Multimillion dollar racing maxi hits well known rocks despite $100K+ of gps/radar/evrything PLUS a navigator...dont trust tech only.
- What would you make of this ?...."less than 7m no light", very next sentence "less than 12m all round night light/stern etc....from maritime nsw's own handbook. No bloody wonder most still dont even realise they must run at least one all round white light when underway. Confusing garbage so u know what to expect from their own guidleines. Bear in mind noone has to redo their licence and most wouldnt have a bloody clue about the rules...they've done safety campaigns but probably got thru to maybe 5 % of boaties i'd guess..most of the rest just dont care anyway and assume what they do is right. Thats who is out there and what you need to allow for.
- They are in the channel u drive along, no light on whatsoever. Almost impossible to see them with your "night vision" only on dark nights. Expect it right in front of you or stick to nights with moon. Or take precautions.
- If u hit anything at rest i guarantee you will be treated as at fault, or the very least assumed a goose. Why take the risk ?
- We used to rely on hearing as well but 4 stks can be almost impossible to hear coming sometimes. So dont begrudge guys shining their torches around or right at you as a warning...you hear a motor getting louder and louder good chance you'll do it too.
- Half the guys thattell you how good their night vision is drive enclosed hardtops with spray/ozone/grime on the windscreen. Noone looks through a clean windscreen and its a huge difference. You want to see gooses ?..back at the ramp at night you'll regularly see a half cabin coming in with one of those dodger type bimini's that go all the way to the windscreen. the only way he's been driving about with his night vision is hunched down peering through a dirty, spray covered old half crazed perspex windscreen. She'll be right mate..mind ya own business. Assume everyone out there is a pig headed idiot and take precautions.
- Driving behind most trailerboats the way things are looks almost identical to someone at rest. Allow for that.
- Moored yachts with a pissy little mast light up the top you may not even see till right on it...looks just like a star sometimes or blends into background shore lights. Often dark hulled too which doesnt help.
- The rules about shining lights forward ware just as much designed to help YOUR night vision not someoene elses...like people pretend in here. Yes you are supposed to make sure any other light doesnt interfere with nav/all round lights but its actually more designed to help your vision coz people are fools. A glance of their safety guideleines as well as the rulebook will tell you this. Easy fixed if you dont let light shine onto the deck/bow rail in front of you. Nobody wants to paint the top of their bowrail black to stop that reflection either..they'd do it to their bullbar in a flash tho to help their vison.
- A quick glance in your neighbourhood will show you just how many guys have their all round lights either down back where u cant see them...or even right in their face. Then they go out and use their amazing cat like night vision. They still manufacture boats with some absolutely stupid white light placement, and people assume thats where it should be and never fix it nor get legal.
- Good chance the bloke flashing a spottie around is actually the cops. They're way too smart to run the gauntlet without one at the ready and using it often..despite the rules. Need to be placed way out the front bowrail to get the benefit...most guys claiming they are useless probably flash them from behind the windscreen or have cheap crappy ones. We dont put car headlights shining out from inside the car through a windscreen over a white bonnet do we ? You wouldnt expect to see much would you ?
- Try to stay in main channels whenever possible but its still no guarantee that some goose trying to help his night vision has turned everything off.
- Even in built up areas with lots of light boats nav lights go invisible against the background.
- If you see a dinghy tied up next to a moored boat in darkness, yepp thats the bloke who probably stole your best mates trailer last week. We should be allowed to gaff the flogs. yeah ok maybe check first.
-

[ashh]

like it or lump it, I run these babies when moving around at night on the water.



Spreader beam angled to light up the bank and spot beam looks out for crabpots, debri and the d!ckheads in unlit tinnys...
Ill dip the beams when I've spotted you, but if you lose your nightvision for a few seconds its better than losing your life and besides its better that you see me coming rather than neither of us seeing each other untill its too late!

[Angla]

rule 20 part b application, learn your col regs angla or should you now be known as capt pugwash
do you seriously think that your examples in the above text havent been encounterd by anyone else?
or maybe you havnt hit anything or caused somone else to hit anything is because you only head out once or twice a month

And what is your answer to the other 3 questions

What is with the captain pugwash name calling

I do think that some of the examples in the previous text have been experienced by others but it was more in reference to your experiences that may cause you to be looking at the issue of (dark) night navigation through tinted lenses. I don't believe the original poster was talking about fishing in and around ferry terminals where you might be waiting with a 24 metre Fast Cat Ferry, laying crab pots.

My repetition to fishing is also not relevant in this discussion only to say that I have had experiences that I would have preferred to have not happened but have found the searchlight to be invaluable in the outcome.

Cheers
Chris

[Defore]

Hi all,
Here it is the as far as the rules go; that any other lights used onboard should not interfere with the visibility of your vessels navigation lights.

Collision Regulations

Part C - Lights & Shapes
Rule 20 Application
a) Rules in this application shall be complied with in all weathers
b) The Rules concerning lights shall be complied with from sunset to sunrise, during such times no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights as cannot be mistaken from the lights specified in these rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character or interfere with the keeping of a proper lookout.


A good spottie would probably be visible for 5 miles and therefore hide your nav lights - if facing directly ahead and used constantly.

Hope that helps.

The rule states that the lights used should not be mistaken for the required lighting and a spotlight would not be mistaken.
It also states that side lights be visible for 1 mile, a spotlight unless directly on you will not stop you from seeing the navigation lights at 1 mile.
The navigation lights are required so other boats know which way the boat is heading, I have never been confused as to which way a boat is heading if they have a spotlight on the front.
I just give them a wide berth until they have past and my night vision returns.
I don't know of any boat that has ever been booked for using a spotlight and I watched one pass the water police, mind you the water police also had theirs on as they checked other boats.

[fishfeeder]

Fishhunter I think you need a NEW Chart LOL... must have been a lot of crap on your windscreen not to see something 3m high in front of you !!!

I guess its the situation your in that makes the difference between running a spotlight or not. Out on the ocean 20km from land there is very little point in running a spot light, but being in a place where navigation relies on seeing the next markers reflector (unlit marker eg. jumpinpin) then running with a spot light, makes sense as you line up each marker.

As for night vision we used to chase pigs out west and we would turn all light off before getting to a know area that had pigs and drive along without any problems in seeing, We could see on a clear night if there were pigs 300-400 yards away on wheat stubble further if a mob was moving, on a full noon you could even shoot with no spotlight on at all. Turn the spotlight on and your vision was restricted to the beam of the spotlight and not the whole area around you. Same problem happends on the water with a spotlight your vision is re-stricked to the lights beam and you loose the rest of your vision.

Cheers
Brett

[stue2]

Where I fish if you come in after dark without a spotlight, a good one, you are an idiot. There are so many craypot floats and long floating ropes it is simply too dangeous to travel without dam good lighting and thats anything upto 50km out to sea.

And there are too many that fish with lights off only to flick them on if they hear something

A bit of common sense says not to shine on others.

I use to rely on night vison untill we nearly hit a ship in some very poor conditions one night. His lights were no good to us as they blended in well with the skyline of the city we were heading to. The only reason we stopped was because there were no lights visible once we were too close. Turned just in the nick of time

i'm not a cat, an owl or a fox so Bugger the night vision, not reliable.

Cheers, Stu