Travelling in the dark

[hakuna]

So hakuna, excuse my ignorance but does the radar help you cross breaking bars? Does it show up on-coming waves, by which I mean ones that are approaching the surf zone and have yet to break, or are you relying solely on night vision, star and or moonlight?
Cheers.

Radar only shows other boats around, also will show if there is white water on the bar when you are coming to it. You do not use it to cross but.
I have very good night vision, most places on a black night still has a fair bit of light as in gold coast, bars like evans head are simple in white water as it is not like the pin, only one set to skip through. If the hole to get through is not long, then you go through the last breaking wave of the set. After it breaks of course. Wouldn't do this unless you are sure of what you are doing but.
Hard to explain how to cross, have taught a few blokes over the years including my kids, you look at shadows not waves, and you don't look at the bar but use your periffial vision, you can see them. Been doing it for 30 yrs with no problems. Easier to explain on the water and show where to look.

[deckie]

Try the small plate under the anchor light too...in the driveway at night just keep cutting it and refitting till u get no downlight on the boat..helps.

[Spaniard_King]

Rules are fine but maybe some commonsense is just as important.

A silly thing about the rule above is that accidents at night are caused by people NOT seeing the other guy whether they're at rest or moving...and not havinjg any warning re seeing an object right in front of you. Fix those two things become SAFE. Compared to our cars we have the tiniest dumbest little lights and expected to see with them, interpret them, then allow for them. Whinging about someones night vision is the dumbest thing i;ve heard and an excuse nobody talks about in their car...its accepted that u are driving straight into headlights constantly. On the road its far more dangerous coz you;re passing nearby at greater speed but people want to whine that they hate seeing a spottie on the water ? Spare me..take a drive on a dirt country road one night and turn ya headlights off...that should help your night vision hugely

BEST light is the one you can see for miles...if i see a spottie i'm happy and if it shines on me i also know that i've been seen by the other guy, rather than pretending its somehow horrible for my "night vision".

I think some of the plus and minus stuff tho comes from different areas or if its built up enclosed water or not. Big difference getting along the week of a new moon on a cloudy night in Cowan Creek to getting along past waterfronts in a harbour on a full moon. Not saying they should be on all the time but if i'm supposed to be responsible for people on board i'd rather be safe and use them intermittently, than second guess the water in front of me and trust the other guy isnt a flog. Pitch black i can even run the spottie onto the shore out in front and keep a set distance. Other nights it doesnt get used at all. Just saying i'd rather not pretend my "night vision" is more important than actually CLEARLY seeing what is just ahead on the water and having warning. If there's any sort of mist though or moon they're no help at all.

Agree with others about being out at night. Just magic time on the water and u kind get hooked on it. Spooky but fun.

So drive along and turn your lights off when you see an oncoming car.. then see how good your night vision is... Might be good for the person with the lights but is extremely dangerous to those around you.

[deckie]

Garry just trying to make a point. ok pretty stupid way of saying it. Everytime u drive at night though you;re faced with this situation.

If closing headlong at a combined 200kph on the piliga scrub road and needing to pass 6 feet apart...his headlights on and if you're lucky he's dropped his driving lights, how's you're vision ? It sux....but can you actually do the road in the first place without them on ? You can see the guy coming for 5km, you know he's heading toward you coz u effectively see his spotties. You can safely pass within 6 ft. What exactly are we talking about here (on the water) in terms of it being UNsafe or somehow blinding us ?

If the other guy had no headlights either how would you go ?..and what if there's a guy having a sleep parked on the side of the road ? Ok i admit it aint exactly the same thing but this attitude of thinking its best to just blacken yaself out apart from a cpl of dinky little lights, and pretend we have cat like night vision maybe isnt always the way to go.

[PinHead]

the analogy of the road and water is useless..most roads have white lines down the middle and on both side as well as guide posts..even with oncoming lights you can still see where you are going by those items..alas these are not on the water..as I said..I perfer to only have on thel ights I have to have on..but others may want to use spotlights..to each his own.

I was driving down through the Piliga many years back at about 2.30am..bloody roo did not care I had spotties on..well until I hit the mongrel thing and then no spotties at all.

[deckie]

great piece of road at night, if u can stay awake . Same with the Stuart hwy leaving Alice north...dont go over about 80 kph till dawn or you'll hit one. Truck bull bars on that road must do a lot of work.

ok pretend its a dirt road, no markings no..ahhh foirget it. You're right dumb analogy. Just ignore me

[charleville]

bloody roo did not care I had spotties on..well until I hit the mongrel thing and then no spotties at all.

Just spots.


.

[FishHunter]

I was pottering along last night looking for a place to anchor up out of the wind all lights off except nav lights. Nothing on chart, 8m of water when I saw something odd off to starboard. looked like the water was a different colour hit my docking lights and it was a rock about 15m away and about 10m in front of me was a wall of rock maybe 3m high sticking straight up out of the water. Needless to say my rectum puckered up and I got the hell out of there.
If I didn't have those lights on the front of the boat I would have been swimming.

Why didnt I see it with my wonderful night vision? Dried spray on the windscreen and no moon were the biggest causes.

Give me some big badass lights anytime.

[johncar]

For anyone who wishes to use headlights on their boat at night, Please don't make comparisons with cars on roads vs Boats on the water. There are no white or yellow lines out on the water, not that I have noticed anyway.
The two things are not the same and the safe navigation rules apply. Please follow these rules for yours and others safety as they have not been made by fools.


If you can't trust your night vision and still wish to be out on the sea at night then you should invest in FLIR and radar and have a crew to watch those instruments while you drive and keep watch.
Proper Marine navigation lights are there for everyones safety at sea and if anyone is not prepared to follow them, they should hand in their ships licence or otherwise stay at home at night please.

NO HEADLIGHTS!! It is illegal, there is no debate here. It's unsafe for the larger boating/shipping community..

If I come across anyone on the water with headlights continually on and blinding me I will be taking the boat details, Rego number and lodging a complaint to the appropriate authority for endangerment at sea. I thinks it's that dangerous.

I'll be the one with the spotlight on your side as you drive by..


I'll put a simple scenio to the doubters, maybe you'll get it, maybe not..

I am on the water and faced with what appears to be an oncoming vessel with headlight on, I now have no night vision.
I have absolutely no vision now of the water in front of me or my surrounds, it is also likely that the oncoming boats headlights are lighting up the internal cab of my boat making matters worse. Even if I had my own head light on I wouldn't see much better

The correct and only thing for me to do is stop until the offending boat has passed and I can see once again which may take a few minutes. I should not have to do this!

Sure I can't miss the boat with the big light on, that's not the one I am concerned about.
If I continued under way now driving blind, it is quite possible that there is another boat/boats with their legal nav lights on travelling in any direction possibly also blinded by these lights or they may be flanking the offending vessel but not visible to me.
So if I remained under way, a collision is possible or likely.

Other vessels may be following me may decide not to stop but may also not be able to see me now due to the lights in their eyes and my stern light may not be visible due to the more intense headlight. Another risk of collision.

If you still think it's a good idea then go out to sea with a mate in another boat and from a mile or two apart start heading towards each other with lights ablazing at each other and see how much you can see of anything else, like other vessels and remember no body is following road marking lines out there, not to mention the risk of not seeing other important items such as navigation beacons, bouys, barges, whatever. See how confident you feel driving at speed only being able to see that one bright light or lights and nothing else.

It's not a skinny strip of tar with lines or without. The whole sea is a road, all directions, all speeds and headlights are a definite hazzard due to their blinding effects.

But as far as the road goes, I was once blinded by an oncoming car with high beam locked in on the highway and even though I had my headlights on I failed to see a full grown brown cow standing right in front of me untill it was too late. I hit it before I could hit the brake pedal. Wrote off my car and lived to fight another fish. We are lucky that people don't stop on our highways to have a fish, it would be the same result.

My rant for today.
Enough said..

[deckie]

Yeah hellova rant. Unfortunately though noone has headlights on the water. They just use a spottie when needed.

These overiding assumptions of "no vision" are just exxagerated garbage...if thats all it takes dont drive on our roads at night either. Obviously it YOU that is unsafe to be out there...or need to learn how not to stare straight into someones light.

Spotties are used for precisely the reason that there are no white lines, yellow lines, stop signs, or any other markings out there. Nor is there a sign to say turn left coz you;re about to run over a trap rope and rip your motor off the back, nor a sign saying the bloke in that other boat with no lights on is sober. They are trained on the water when needed or unsure and if u dont have one stick to nights with plenty of moon or areas where there's lots of light.

Whether you like it or not they;re essential on many occasions. If you;re the dobbing type or cant tolerate people doing things safely but not the way u do ...dont have a pretend whinge in here...get yourself a thick pad of paper and a waterproof crayon to jot down everyones "number"....coz every trailerboat in my area carries them and needs them.

You can start right here. Wouldnt catch me out there WITHOUT one.

[OPTI]

for those amongst us on the gold coast ,just try and navigate the coomera river north arm at night without a spotlight,[the channel markers dont have lights],some places they are essential others they arnt.use what ever makesYOU safe ,thats ,my rule.

[FishHunter]

For anyone who wishes to use headlights on their boat at night, Please don't make comparisons with cars on roads vs Boats on the water. There are no white or yellow lines out on the water, not that I have noticed anyway.
The two things are not the same and the safe navigation rules apply. Please follow these rules for yours and others safety as they have not been made by fools.


If you can't trust your night vision and still wish to be out on the sea at night then you should invest in FLIR and radar and have a crew to watch those instruments while you drive and keep watch.
Proper Marine navigation lights are there for everyones safety at sea and if anyone is not prepared to follow them, they should hand in their ships licence or otherwise stay at home at night please.

NO HEADLIGHTS!! It is illegal, there is no debate here. It's unsafe for the larger boating/shipping community..

If I come across anyone on the water with headlights continually on and blinding me I will be taking the boat details, Rego number and lodging a complaint to the appropriate authority for endangerment at sea. I thinks it's that dangerous.

I'll be the one with the spotlight on your side as you drive by..


I'll put a simple scenio to the doubters, maybe you'll get it, maybe not..

I am on the water and faced with what appears to be an oncoming vessel with headlight on, I now have no night vision.
I have absolutely no vision now of the water in front of me or my surrounds, it is also likely that the oncoming boats headlights are lighting up the internal cab of my boat making matters worse. Even if I had my own head light on I wouldn't see much better

The correct and only thing for me to do is stop until the offending boat has passed and I can see once again which may take a few minutes. I should not have to do this!

Sure I can't miss the boat with the big light on, that's not the one I am concerned about.
If I continued under way now driving blind, it is quite possible that there is another boat/boats with their legal nav lights on travelling in any direction possibly also blinded by these lights or they may be flanking the offending vessel but not visible to me.
So if I remained under way, a collision is possible or likely.

Other vessels may be following me may decide not to stop but may also not be able to see me now due to the lights in their eyes and my stern light may not be visible due to the more intense headlight. Another risk of collision.

If you still think it's a good idea then go out to sea with a mate in another boat and from a mile or two apart start heading towards each other with lights ablazing at each other and see how much you can see of anything else, like other vessels and remember no body is following road marking lines out there, not to mention the risk of not seeing other important items such as navigation beacons, bouys, barges, whatever. See how confident you feel driving at speed only being able to see that one bright light or lights and nothing else.

It's not a skinny strip of tar with lines or without. The whole sea is a road, all directions, all speeds and headlights are a definite hazzard due to their blinding effects.

But as far as the road goes, I was once blinded by an oncoming car with high beam locked in on the highway and even though I had my headlights on I failed to see a full grown brown cow standing right in front of me untill it was too late. I hit it before I could hit the brake pedal. Wrote off my car and lived to fight another fish. We are lucky that people don't stop on our highways to have a fish, it would be the same result.

My rant for today.
Enough said..

So to keep you happy I must endanger my life? You know where you can stick that idea.
I have the a couple of spotties on my boat and I will use them when in doubt to safeguard ME, you take whatever steps you need to to safeguard yourself.

[Richo1]

These overiding assumptions of "no vision" are just exxagerated garbage...

I don't think so deckie you will find the research has already been done.

"Dark adaptation is the improvement of vision in dim light. It is very difficult to see colours at night. Most objects are seen in various shades of grey. Although dark adaptation requires at least 30minutes, a bright light will destroy night vision in a fraction of a second. In this brief period, the eyes readjust themselves to daylight conditions and the process of dark adaptation must begin all over again." - US Coast Guard - Seamanship Manual

Try driving without the bright lights - just for a little bit and you might find that your not being blinded by your own lights. You may have to slow down abit tho.

[deckie]

Richo..with all due respect i dont care about research. I just care about the reality of being on the water at night..SAFELY. Experience to me is worth a million research papers. Also as a pretend skipper of a lil tub, if anyone else is onboard i am also responsible for them. I'm going to be safe..not conform to someone else's silly notion that there's a right way and a wrong way, or read some uni students phd. Zero interest.

I know u know what you;re talking about but maybe you;ve misinterpreted what i;m saying a bit...i dont switch a light on like starting the car. Its only used every now and then and saved me from close calls many a time. I spend the vast majority of my time getting around without one relying on what people in here call their "night vision". time they're useless, others they;re a great help.

Tell u what johncar...if you're heading toward a guy with a light facing you i reckon u should get out of the way instead of complaining about being able to see less. Not often you;re lucky enough to be heading straight into a spottie but i;m guessing its truly telling u something...90% of times they;re off to the side...so on that odd occasion try your best to avoid it first instead of thinking what a pain it is.

I can only imagine all these people holding a hand over their eyes on their local road going..."my eyeesss my eyyyeesss !!! oh god my night vison is gone !! i cant seeeee !! book that prick !! " every 5 seconds...coz on the road they really are coming at you..and all the time.

You simply travel to the conditions.

[Horse]

Deckie, I think you are missing the point of what a few of us are saying. Many of us have a spottie on hand to check out anything that looks a bit suss but for most of the time we run with minimal lighting. I will often stooge around for a few minutes after giving a spotty blast to allow my eyes to adapt again before taking off again. If not I'm running blind

As for the angles that a boats fixed spotties are aiming at you have realise that a boat is moving in three directions at once and the ones that run floodlights are shooting all over the place. It only takes a moment of head on with a bright light and others are in trouble. Even when they are not pointed at you they "kill" the red and gren navigation lights which are so important for others to determine what direction another vessel is travelling in

For those that say they need floodlights to feel safe I ask if they have ever tried the alternative