So whats your solution to the snapper issue?

[TheRealAndy]

I am going to put this question forth. I dont intend to get involved in this one, I am just going to read the responses. Then sum it all up in a month or 2.

[danners]

ive stated my position before, but just for the record, halt all current plans for restrictions, listen to the scientific reviews which means go back to scratch and implement a sensible and credible data collection system (through mandatory logbooks) preferably collated by a non government organisation such as sunfish

after a few years of proper data collection re-assess the stocks and submit for review by scientists not on the govn't payroll

even the currently shoddy review states that snapper are highly unlikely to be at risk of stock collapse so there's definately no need for an immediate restriction here and now.

cheers
dan

[Triple]

Firstly, find out if there is an issue..... using methods stated above.

[trueblue]

I'd be quite happy to be fill out a log book of every catch I make. wouldn't be many entries in it, but I'd be happy to submit all catch data.

A catch log would give a clear indication of catch rates, not the biomass, but the catch rates could then be related back to climatic conditions, heavy rain seasons, droughts, etc, etc, and the catch rates should ebb and flow in line with climatic influences.

A log book will never be able to estimate fish stocks. but it can give clear evidence of the harvest rates.

I think recreational catch statistics would be a good thing, but only if done for all species caught, but must be completed by all fisherman, regardless of being pro, charter, or recreational.

If statistics began to show steadily falling catch rates, with consistant or increasing fishing effort, (but disregarding climatic events known to reduce harvest) then it would be clear science evidence of overfishing.

log books for catch of all species, by all stakeholders, would be a brilliant thing - it would provide evidence that could not be refuted by anyone from any side of the argument, because it would be entirely based on data, rather than assumptions. It would also stop blanket closures of entire species in QLD if there is a localised issue (Ie, gold coast silting, and charter flogging)

[brisbane_boy]

Sack every scientist involved, clear the mind and start from scratch. over the next 10 or so years collect logbook data from all sectors before making any rash decisions, give the bag limits and size increases time to work.

NO CLOSURES NO FEES

[Pistol_P]

Sack every scientist involved, clear the mind and start from scratch. over the next 10 or so years collect logbook data from all sectors before making any rash decisions, give the bag limits and size increases time to work.

NO CLOSURES NO FEES

Agreed.

I think the thing that REALLY gets the blood boiling with all fisho's is

CLOSURES AND LOCKOUTS .... These are absurd.

Im sure fisho's would be happy to embrace further bag limits etc if science prooves there is a need.

You gotta bear in mind many fish for sport and choose to let their fish go......So this is why lockouts and Green zones make people wild.

Pete

[Big Deez]

Sack every scientist involved

Hmm that'll do it! Get rid of about 50 years experience as fisheries scientists. That'll be a big help!

[danners]

hi big D, i see you dropped out of our conversation last night, but anyway, it is quite clear your obvious involvement as a fisheries scientist in this issue, not to derail this thread but I am very keen to hear why you are happy to accept the blatantly flawed data used in the current snapper stock assessment when any real scientific paper would be rejected based on that amount of uncertainty

cheers
Dan

[brisbane_boy]

Your right about that big deez, time to clear out the dead wood, if you cant come up with something scienitific your not doing your job, i dont want to read guesswork and political driven findings, your paid to spin thats all. sooner you are out of there the better for all concerned

[TimiBoy]

Andy, the logbook system proposed and discussed here by Barry Day and carried into RRFF is the way to go. Data managed by a third party, and a really good, possibly World Class database as an outcome, with a methodology that is clearly duplicable.

It just has to be funded by Fisheries, and they can have ALL the data, AFTER it's been collected.

Aditionally, time to allow the variables introduced by Man and Climate (just Climate, not Climate Change!) need time to flow through before further changes are made; ie. the drought breaking, size and bag limits - the impact of these cannot as yet be fully measured.

Sometimes the bravest thing to do is to do nothing...

Cheers,

Tim

[dayoo]

I propose an Option 5 which was basically agreed to by the whole RRFF working group and submitted to Fisheries executive over two years ago.

• 260 tonne notational TAC
• vessel based permit
• mandatory catch card (logbook) with web based lodgement
• biennial snapper catch and effort survey (To see how we are going against the TAC)

NO fee and NO 6 weeks closure

Cheers
Barry

[NAGG]

Log books for all recreational anglers & who is going to fill these out (correctly) if they knew that closures could come from the data - how many would fill it out anyway ( besides those here) ........come on , get real!

If I had my way ..... & the funds which would be obtained via a Salt water recreational licence ($30 pa)

I would have a closed season ( breeding time)

bag (possession) limit of 5 fish

A slot limit - 38 to 60cm (2 over 60cm)

Boat limit - 15 fish


At the same time as these restrictions , research would be commissioned - from the 3 major SE Qld regions (Gold , sunshine coast & Bris) - This would include charter boats & rec angler ramp surveys ( carried out by officials) .
After 5 years - these restrictions would be reviewed and either tightened or relaxed

That's where I would start.

Chris

[Reel Blue]

Actions:
1. Leave bag limit at 5 fish and raise the size limit to 40cm. (I'm not convinced there is a problem but this would seem to me to be a sensible precautionary action)
2. Reduce trawler by catch and waste. (Unsure how but there must be better methods of harvesting prawns)
3. Introduce some method of collecting real data from rec anglers.

Benefits:
1. Snapper are more tolerant of catch and release at the smaller sizes and the 40cm size limit will allow for more breeding cycles before harvesting.
2. Size limit applies equally to all stakeholders, so all contribute.

In addition:
No fees for recreational anglers. Fish are a resource that all enjoy; not just fishermen, so fish management should be covered by all taxpayers.

[dayoo]

Chris (Nagg).

The proposed logbook is a vessel log book completed by the skipper if his or her boat is participating in the snapper fishery. No one mentioned a logbook for all rec anglers.

What breeding closure period do you advocate????
June to August (main breeding time for sunshine coast to Gold coast) OR September to November ( main breeding time for Fraser Coast)OR
March to May (main breeding time for Moreton Bay snapper)OR
the whold period to cover all regions ( i.e. 8 months from March to November)

If breeding closures are introduced as you suggest HOW do we measure what has been caught....Boat ramp surveys!!!! COME ON

Cheers
Barry

[Big Deez]

Your right about that big deez, time to clear out the dead wood, if you cant come up with something scienitific your not doing your job, i dont want to read guesswork and political driven findings, your paid to spin thats all. sooner you are out of there the better for all concerned

hi big D, i see you dropped out of our conversation last night, but anyway, it is quite clear your obvious involvement as a fisheries scientist in this issue, not to derail this thread but I am very keen to hear why you are happy to accept the blatantly flawed data used in the current snapper stock assessment when any real scientific paper would be rejected based on that amount of uncertainty

cheers
Dan

You blokes are too smart for me - its obvious there won't be any sort of compromise. I'll leave the defence of the stock assessment to the scientists - they are much smarter than me and much more diplomatic. I'll be at a few of the meetings at the end of the month so perhaps we can catch up for a chat there? Hope so! Happy new year to you both!