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  1. #76

    Re: Snapper Stocks - Another View

    Quote Originally Posted by PinHead View Post
    Let's start with the 400t..that is 400,000 kg.

    Let's make some assumptions of our own..but on the larger side of the scale..let's use 10kg fish.

    So that equates to 40000 of these being caught per annum.

    Bag limit is 5 so that is 8000 anglers bagging out on 10kg fish.

    365 days in the year..and we all know that many of these are unfishable due to weather etc but let's use the entire year...that is almost 22 anglers bagging out on 10kg snapper every day of the year...yeah right.

    You still think they are correct ??? I sure as hell don;t.

    You just have to love spin - and it is really amazing what you can project by using different numbers

    My turn

    There are just over 137,300 registered boats in Qld over 4.5M ...

    The fisheries tell us that the rec catch equates to 400 tonne (400,000kgs) So lets stick with those numbers
    That would equate to 2.9kgs of Snapper per boat / year ( regardless of anglers)

    But not everyone fishes for snapper or is in the right region ...... I hear you say
    OK ....... but we know that the greatest majority of boat ownership is in SE Qld - so lets say 30% of the boats fish for snapper (41,190) at one stage or another ........ That would equate to 9.7kgs of snapper / boat / year

    Now dont you think that this number sounds likely if not under estimated.


    Oh yeh .... btw there are another 50,000 boats between 4.0 - 4.5 meters that I left out of these figures ..... and as we know , a boat of this size can fish for snapper in many prime locations ..... and they do ( several of my mates certainly do)

    Yes we can project a totally different spin by using different figures .........

    Does the rec sector take 400 tonne of snapper pa -- I certainly think so !

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  2. #77

    Re: Snapper Stocks - Another View

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealAndy View Post
    And that is exactly what I am getting at folks.

    I had better make one last comment based on that..I have the balls to tell people to get stuffed when i believe they are wrong..you obviously just bend over for them. I have no fear of any Govt body nor anyone for that matter..you appear to just want to grovel and appease those that think they have power. The majority of public servants in the beaucracy these days are just a bunch with a fistful of Uni degrees and not one cracker of knowledge of the real world. perhaps they should go back to the days of the career public servants where they knew what was going on in the real world.

    The only word i can use to describe this is: PATHETIC.

    A Uni degree does not make one knowledgeable..it just gives enough knowledge to be either dangerous or stupid dependent on how that person uses that knowledge. It certainly does not give common sense..you follow me yet Andy??

  3. #78

    Re: Snapper Stocks - Another View

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    You just have to love spin - and it is really amazing what you can project by using different numbers

    My turn

    There are just over 137,300 registered boats in Qld over 4.5M ...

    The fisheries tell us that the rec catch equates to 400 tonne (400,000kgs) So lets stick with those numbers
    That would equate to 2.9kgs of Snapper per boat / year ( regardless of anglers)

    But not everyone fishes for snapper or is in the right region ...... I hear you say
    OK ....... but we know that the greatest majority of boat ownership is in SE Qld - so lets say 30% of the boats fish for snapper (41,190) at one stage or another ........ That would equate to 9.7kgs of snapper / boat / year

    Now dont you think that this number sounds likely if not under estimated.


    Oh yeh .... btw there are another 50,000 boats between 4.0 - 4.5 meters that I left out of these figures ..... and as we know , a boat of this size can fish for snapper in many prime locations ..... and they do ( several of my mates certainly do)

    Yes we can project a totally different spin by using different figures .........

    Does the rec sector take 400 tonne of snapper pa -- I certainly think so !

    Chris
    Or about 800grams of snapper per boat per month ......
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  4. #79

    Re: Snapper Stocks - Another View

    never happens nagg..and everyone that fishes in one of the big ponds catches a metre plus barra also ????

  5. #80

    Re: Snapper Stocks - Another View

    Quote Originally Posted by PinHead View Post
    never happens nagg..and everyone that fishes in one of the big ponds catches a metre plus barra also ????



    Come on PH - you know as well as I do that those numbers projected are not as daunting and unachievable!


    As for barra fishing on the dams - Ive had a very lean year with only 23 landed for an average of 98.5cm ...... give or take a mm or 2

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  6. #81

    Re: Snapper Stocks - Another View

    So in your opinion a TAC for Rec Anglers of 260t would make little difference to our current habits based on the April 1 year start?

    While I am of the opinion that the 415t of Rec Take is a pipe dream. I would still like to see the results of proper data before restricting us to that figure. Call me cynical but Enforcing restrictions ahead of verified data is a waste of time. If the data suggests post collection then so be it. There is the chance that Possibly the data suggests no 260t TAC is required or maybe a 350t TAC is more appropriate but by the time that comes hurt will have been felt through all 3 sectors for an unjustified reason.

    Am I being unreasonable for suggesting this?

    Thanks for the prompt reply
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  7. #82

    Re: Snapper Stocks - Another View

    My spin is just that ...... spin

    What the number is ....... will be a guesstimate - you just cant get accurate figures no matter how good the analysis is
    Too many factors come into play......

    But ..... by my simple calculations , the number presented is not a "oh wow" .... bs number!
    When I used to fish for mulloway back in NSW - my take during my season would equate to close to 500kgs over less than half a year ......... and I would only fish maybe 12-15 times in that period.
    Now - if there are not SE Qld fishoes doing similar numbers on snapper during the course of the year ..... I'll stand rootin.


    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  8. #83

    Re: Snapper Stocks - Another View

    All of you guys are proving my point by banging on about the possible Rec take. Until we get some solid data EVERYTHING is either BS or spin!

    Regulate proper data collection and do a proper assessment then come
    Talk to us! ( if nessessary)
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  9. #84

    Re: Snapper Stocks - Another View

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovey80 View Post
    All of you guys are proving my point by banging on about the possible Rec take. Until we get some solid data EVERYTHING is either BS or spin!

    Regulate proper data collection and do a proper assessment then come
    Talk to us! ( if nessessary)
    thats exactly right, arguing abuot whther or not the figures can be made to look good or bad or ingbetween is all academic at this point

    the data is clearly rubbish as indicated by the scientific review , so the only conclusion is to go back ot the drawing board, devise and implemetn better data collection and produce a stock assessment that's worth the paper it's printed on

    until that is done any and all squabbles about the current figures is irrelevant imo

    ps

    happy new years everyone

  10. #85

    Re: Snapper Stocks - Another View

    Quote Originally Posted by PinHead View Post
    I had better make one last comment based on that..I have the balls to tell people to get stuffed when i believe they are wrong..you obviously just bend over for them. I have no fear of any Govt body nor anyone for that matter..you appear to just want to grovel and appease those that think they have power. The majority of public servants in the beaucracy these days are just a bunch with a fistful of Uni degrees and not one cracker of knowledge of the real world. perhaps they should go back to the days of the career public servants where they knew what was going on in the real world.

    The only word i can use to describe this is: PATHETIC.

    A Uni degree does not make one knowledgeable..it just gives enough knowledge to be either dangerous or stupid dependent on how that person uses that knowledge. It certainly does not give common sense..you follow me yet Andy??
    Lol Greg, you are a classic! I dont bend over and cop it either, however I know very well from experience that going to the government with a whinge achieves exactly nothing. So you better bend over and get ready for that! If I approach the offices there in Anne Street to argue then I need to be well prepared. I cant just walk in and say "I dont like it, and I dont agree".

    Pathetic it may be, but the majority here on AF is more than happy to let it happen due to ingnorance and apathy.


    BTW. The uni degree provides you with a fundamental technical basis to move foward. You take what they teach you and apply it with the help of mentors. Like everything in life, you learn by doing, same as you did as an apprentice. Same as I did as an apprentice, same as I did when I went to uni.


  11. #86

    Re: Snapper Stocks - Another View

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovey80 View Post
    All of you guys are proving my point by banging on about the possible Rec take. Until we get some solid data EVERYTHING is either BS or spin!

    Regulate proper data collection and do a proper assessment then come
    Talk to us! ( if nessessary)
    Yeah, so why is the majority here opposed to catch cards (even if not paid for)? I remember when dayoo asked this question here before he copped a flogging too.


  12. #87

    Re: Snapper Stocks - Another View

    I'd be quite happy with catch cards - no problem. wouldn't put much on them cause i don't catch much, but they would be a good thing for all of us, if completed by al skippers, regardless of which aspect of fishing stakeholder

  13. #88

    Re: Snapper Stocks - Another View

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealAndy View Post
    Lol Greg, you are a classic! I dont bend over and cop it either, however I know very well from experience that going to the government with a whinge achieves exactly nothing. So you better bend over and get ready for that! If I approach the offices there in Anne Street to argue then I need to be well prepared. I cant just walk in and say "I dont like it, and I dont agree". why not? I know I have done that and gotten positive results. it just takes some guts and to stand your ground.

    Pathetic it may be, but the majority here on AF is more than happy to let it happen due to ingnorance and apathy.


    BTW. The uni degree provides you with a fundamental technical basis to move foward. You take what they teach you and apply it with the help of mentors. Like everything in life, you learn by doing, same as you did as an apprentice. Same as I did as an apprentice, same as I did when I went to uni.
    Have a look at the credentials of a lot of DG in this Govt..Uni degrees by the truckload yet not faint idea on how to run a department..they prefer degrees to experience..the days of the career public servant are over..and what a pity.
    All that experience and knowledge and common sense wasted.

  14. #89

    Re: Snapper Stocks - Another View

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealAndy View Post
    Yeah, so why is the majority here opposed to catch cards (even if not paid for)? I remember when dayoo asked this question here before he copped a flogging too.
    Andy i can not speak for others but can tell you why i will not have anything to do with data collection for any one any more.
    For a couple of years i participated in gathering information on Snapper in my area. It was a voluntary thing; i would gladly show the volunteer at the ramp my catch, help him measure and count all of my captures. I would then return home and clean the fish then call this man who would come to my home and pick up the frames for analisis. I had no problem with this as there were plenty of fish; nothing including Snapper were in any danger of being fished out. I do not live in the Great South East and so the snapper here were and are under no threat. As time progressed the exact place i fished became a marine park on my and i guess others collected data. I did not put 2 and 2 together till this latest snapper ban which i have been following via this site for a very long time. It is now obvious to me that the information i gave these people has fouind its way to fisheries who have decided that Snapper are under threat and have already imposed a closed season. They have twisted the figures that i helped collect for their own benefit and will do so again if i collect any more. I will not participate any longer, will not purchase species specific licences but will release all of the Snapper i catch. Unfortunately these days i have to travel further afield to catch fish which i know are in abundance right where i left them in the now declared marine park.
    The problem is only where there has been to much fishing pressure both amateur and professional as well as to much pollution yet every one has to suffer to appease those to greedy to see reality. I agree there are not as many Snapper as there used to be but there are not as many Flathead and Bream either and yet we see no catch cards or bans in force for these. Fisheries are setting us up for something much bigger than a Snapper closure and i will not be helping them in their efforts.
    Regards to all Dick

  15. #90

    Re: Snapper Stocks - Another View

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevric View Post
    Andy i can not speak for others but can tell you why i will not have anything to do with data collection for any one any more.
    For a couple of years i participated in gathering information on Snapper in my area. It was a voluntary thing; i would gladly show the volunteer at the ramp my catch, help him measure and count all of my captures. I would then return home and clean the fish then call this man who would come to my home and pick up the frames for analisis. I had no problem with this as there were plenty of fish; nothing including Snapper were in any danger of being fished out. I do not live in the Great South East and so the snapper here were and are under no threat. As time progressed the exact place i fished became a marine park on my and i guess others collected data. I did not put 2 and 2 together till this latest snapper ban which i have been following via this site for a very long time. It is now obvious to me that the information i gave these people has fouind its way to fisheries who have decided that Snapper are under threat and have already imposed a closed season. They have twisted the figures that i helped collect for their own benefit and will do so again if i collect any more. I will not participate any longer, will not purchase species specific licences but will release all of the Snapper i catch. Unfortunately these days i have to travel further afield to catch fish which i know are in abundance right where i left them in the now declared marine park.
    The problem is only where there has been to much fishing pressure both amateur and professional as well as to much pollution yet every one has to suffer to appease those to greedy to see reality. I agree there are not as many Snapper as there used to be but there are not as many Flathead and Bream either and yet we see no catch cards or bans in force for these. Fisheries are setting us up for something much bigger than a Snapper closure and i will not be helping them in their efforts.
    I have also answered this question before. HAd it been a private firm doing the research, then for the research to have any credit they would have had to piublish the findings. EPA could have just as easily got the data from a private mob.

    However, suit yourself, but if you are not willing to contribute data, then you have no right to complain when they have snapper closures based on what data they do have.

    I wonder if anyone has aligned the recent increases of snapper in moreton bay with any weather events? And the low snapper catch rates they years DPI did their studies? Just a hunch on my part, having seen some other data provided by infofish for CQ. The DPI science is actually quite correct and valid for those years they did the studies BTW (exluding the rec catch part I feel).


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