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Thread: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.

  1. #526

    Re: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.

    Big Deez quote Easy on land. Are you suggesting that cameras and divers be used to count snapper? Are you saying every snapper or a small sub-sample? end quote

    Big Deez

    Easy in the sea as well mate, just a matter of right tool for the job. It is a little expensive but can be done. It wouldn't be any more expensive than using helicopters to count camels in the desert and they do that all the time. Fish are just animals and the sea floor is just terrain, just need the right vehicle and equipment to tackle it.

    I reckon it is time Fisheries and the QLD govt (and the rest of us for that matter)start acting like the "Smart State" and start looking outside the box a bit on this. Mate if the Seppos can do it we can.

    Cheers,

    Bill

  2. #527

    Re: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill_V View Post
    Big Deez quote Easy on land. Are you suggesting that cameras and divers be used to count snapper? Are you saying every snapper or a small sub-sample? end quote

    Big Deez

    Easy in the sea as well mate, just a matter of right tool for the job. It is a little expensive but can be done. It wouldn't be any more expensive than using helicopters to count camels in the desert and they do that all the time. Fish are just animals and the sea floor is just terrain, just need the right vehicle and equipment to tackle it.

    I reckon it is time Fisheries and the QLD govt (and the rest of us for that matter)start acting like the "Smart State" and start looking outside the box a bit on this. Mate if the Seppos can do it we can.

    Cheers,

    Bill
    Yeah I can see your point Bill.

    BRUV's (Baited remote underwater video) are being used in research now in Queensland. I can see something like this being a very good method for getting data on the number of fish at certain places at certain times of the year. So, for example, you might want to check for the number of snapper at Hutchies on the full moon in October - do that yearly and you can get an idea of numbers over time in that area at that time of year. But to get an idea about the actual number of snapper in south-east Queensland would be impossible. Snapper are found from the border up to Mackay and anywhere from 1m depth to over 150m. Thats a large area in which to place cameras, and to get a snapshot of the number of snapper present in one month (for example) over the entire fishery would require 1000's of cameras, millions even.

    Another thing about that sort of data is that it is time consuming - somebody's got to watch all those 100's of hours of video, not to mention the logistics of a survey that complicated and extensive. It would require alot of people/resources.

  3. #528

    Re: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.

    I think Big Deez is right on this one. There is no possible way to count every location at once. Best your going to get out of it is size variations in different locations. That is something I would like to see also.

    On top of that they can't even get right how many Rec Anglers catch, take small samples of data then extrapolate it. They would do exactly the same thing with camera count numbers.

    Lets just see if they can get the take data right first hey?

    Cheers

    Chris
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  4. #529

    Re: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.

    Sorry I don't believe the take data will never be accurate....even if by some miricle the fishing effort and actual catch was reliably estimated, there are so many variable factors that get more variable by the day, that "take" can not directly relate to population.

    Say we tried to estimate the human population and age profile by the number of funerals......funerals would be easy and reliable to count....yeh the rate would go up with population........but over time there would be some very big error sources

    Consider that the phone poll equates to arround 0.2% sample of the population and 4500 fishing log books equates to arround a 0.5% sample of the phone poll
    The recreational take is extimated from an incredibly low sample rate.

    Just a refresher
    QLD population..........................4 250 000....pretty reliable figure
    Number polled by phone........... 22 000.....no data on details
    Number of logbooks...................4 500..for the whole state all spicies, no details on selection.

    Claims 735 000 partisipate in fishing in some form

    This means the sample of calculated anglers from the log books is arround 0.2%.
    No is an ocasional angler who more or less catches zip going to be bothered filling out a log book

    so any errors in the phone poll which establishes partisipation rate will be multiplied by 500
    any errors in the log books to establish effort and catch rate will be multiplied by 500

    So if we have 1 very skilled and dedicated angler who catches and logs 2 snapper at 3KG each trip and 25 trips a year a total catch of 150Kg for the year........once multiplied out for the purpose of recreational catch estimation that accounts for 75 tonnes of snapper catch...............I doubt there would be many out there that would account for 50 decent snapper in the year... but if one of them fills out a log book.....

    OH sorry
    How many log books would have snapper on them or are from snapper areas..1/2..1/3..1/4

    So does old mate now account for 150 tonnes, 225 tonnes or 300 tonnes of biomass...It all depends on how the figures are fiddled.


    then we look at boat ramp surveys....they too are very low sample rate and not partiularly consistently sampled.

    To do better than the current effort ya would not have to do much.

    No one is ever going to count the entire population of snapper.......in truth it is very very rare that an entire population of any animal is counted.

    Nor would it be wise to rely totaly on visual observation.

    But any half decent attempt at a visual survey will give a better impression of what is going on under the water.

    cheers
    Its the details, those little details, that make the difference.

  5. #530

    Re: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.

    Jim,

    What research, investment are Qld Fisheries doing in relation to snapper breeding/restocking? If the biomass is at such a critical level then surely some of the work in NSW & SA should be replicated here to assist in some small way to restock the fish levels.

  6. #531

    Re: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.


    Queensland Government
    Department of Employment, Economic Development and Innovation
    Media Release
    Full steam ahead for snapper consultation
    21 January 2011
    New public meeting dates for consultation on the state’s Rocky Reef Fin Fish Fishery and in particular snapper have been announced after being postponed due to flooding.
    Fisheries Queensland Managing Director Jim Groves said the consultation period had also been extended for a further six weeks.
    "Snapper, part of the Rocky Reef Fin Fish Fishery is a popular species for both recreational and commercial fishers in Queensland, therefore it was important to reschedule new meeting dates to give people the opportunity to comment on proposed changes.
    "As such we have rescheduled meeting dates from Mackay to Tin Can Bay to allow people time to get back on their feet following flooding.
    "The current review is imperative in resolving how best to manage this fishery sustainably in the future," he said.
    "All representatives from the community should have the opportunity to provide their feedback on the ways we can better manage these fish stocks in the future.
    The new meeting dates are as follows:
    Date
    Location
    Time
    Venue

    Monday 14 Mar 2011
    Mackay
    7-9pm
    Reef Resort Mackay

    166–170 Nebo Street,
    Mackay
    Tuesday 15 Mar 2011
    Yeppoon
    7-9pm
    Rosslyn Bay Inn
    Vin. E. Jones Drive, Rosslyn Bay
    Wednesday 16 Mar 2011
    Bundaberg
    7-9pm
    Western Suburbs League Club
    Avoca Street, Bundaberg
    Thursday 17 Mar 2011
    Hervey Bay
    7-9pm
    Hervey Bay Boat Club
    Buccaneer Drive, Hervey Bay
    Friday 18 Mar 2011
    Tin Can Bay
    7-9pm
    Tin Can Bay Country Club

    Kidd Straight, Tin Can Bay



    Meeting dates for the following locations remain the same:
    Date
    Location
    Time
    Venue
    Thursday 3 Feb 2011
    Noosa
    7-9pm
    Ivory Palms Resort
    73 Hilton Terrace, Noosaville
    Monday 7 Feb 2011
    Mooloolaba
    7-9pm
    Landmark Resort
    Cnr Mooloolaba Esplanade and Burnett Street, Mooloolaba
    Tuesday 8 Feb 2011
    Caloundra
    7-9pm
    The Events Centre
    20 Minchinto Street, Caloundra
    Wednesday 9 Feb 2011
    Redcliffe
    7-9pm
    Redcliff Leagues Club
    Cnr Klingner and Ashmole Roads, Redcliffe
    Thursday 10 Feb 2011
    Wynnum
    7-9pm
    Wynnum RSL
    174 Tingal Road, Wynnum

    Monday 14 Feb 2011
    Victoria Point
    7-9pm
    Redland Bowls Club
    3 Poinciana Avenue, Victoria Point
    Tuesday 15 Feb 2011
    Southport
    7-9pm
    Sharks Club
    Cnr Musgrave and Olsen Avenue, Southport


    "We strongly encourage anyone with an interest in snapper or other rocky reef fin fish species like pearl perch, teraglin, or mahi mahi to come along to these meetings.
    "The meetings provide information for people to understand the issues around the sustainability of these species, and give people the opportunity to discuss the options presented in the recently released Regulatory Impact Statement.
    "Responses to the RIS close on 5pm, Friday, 8 April 2011 - a response form can be downloaded at
    www.fisheries.qld.gov.au or completed online at www.getinvolved.qld.gov.au
    More information can be found at
    www.fisheries.qld.gov.au or by calling 13 25 23.

  7. #532

    Re: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.

    As a gamefisherman, how the bloody hell can you include mahi mahi in "Rocky Finfish?" They are the fastest growing fish in the ocean, they are the most pelagic fish out there and they probably have the most tolerence to temperature range hence their natural range is from the equator to about level with the bottom of Victoria in every single ocean and sea in the world? How and why do you need to manage them?

  8. #533

    Re: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smithy View Post
    As a gamefisherman, how the bloody hell can you include mahi mahi in "Rocky Finfish?" They are the fastest growing fish in the ocean, they are the most pelagic fish out there and they probably have the most tolerence to temperature range hence their natural range is from the equator to about level with the bottom of Victoria in every single ocean and sea in the world? How and why do you need to manage them?

    Like Trag Jew and Pearl Perch; Mahi Mahi just seem to have appeared. Before long the Snapper closure will be named "All Species Closure (no science required)". Forgive me if i sound a little cynical but if Fisheries can even consider Mahi Mahi any thing is possible. As you intimated Smithy they are one of the fastest growing and prolific of all species of fish. What next , perhaps Marlin? The Snapper science is suspect at best but to my knowledge there has been no research or science applied to the other species at all.
    I wonder how many others have picked up that there has been yet another name mentioned for closure especially just a few days out from the closure.
    Regards to all Dick

  9. #534

    Re: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.

    so are the planning to put in a heap of FAD's for you to fish Mahi Mahi? not going to restrict you but make it easier for you?

    cheers Murf

  10. #535

    Re: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.

    Quite a few FAD's have been in place for a while now at the southern end of South Stradbroke Island...... This is an area identified to have an artificial reef deployed this year.

    Dollies and Snaps in the same ' barrel " ?????????




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  11. #536

    Re: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.

    Oh come on guys.
    Haven't you ever caught a dolly with a patenosker and a coupla slabs of squid??

    Gees I can be a sarcastic prat sometimes.

    Still have not heard or seen any advertising of the snapper closure out here.
    I intend on living for-ever....so far so good


  12. #537

    Re: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.

    Some people would not understand why people in the darling downs need to be informed about salt water fishing.

    But there are plenty of people who will drag a boat all the way from Warick or Toowomba down to the Sunshine coat, Gold Coast or Jacobs Well to fish.

    I haven't seen any advertising about the closure here either it may have been mentioned in bush & beach or QLD fishing but there seems to be no effort to inform the general public.

    cheers
    Its the details, those little details, that make the difference.

  13. #538

    Re: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.

    Hi Jim,

    Thanks for the invite but I won't be attending any of those meetings.
    I am sure i can think of many better things to do as far as wated time goes.
    And that is exactly what those meetings will be..waste of time.
    No one will convince me that the decision has not been made already at Ministerial level.

  14. #539

    Re: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.

    I would bet London to a brick that Bill Corten and Barry Day have become sick of having to delete pm's supporting the modified version of Option 1.

    They are probably not sick of deleting emails supporting the unrepresentative swill presented by Sunfish and a few other "Johnny-come-latelies", because there will be so few of them.

    The way this thread keeps meandering off into a corner called "Yep, that's Rec Fishos doing what they do best - shooting themselves in the foot!" I can't believe the way some folks just keep rambling on, refining the details of their own, private, Angling Utopia.

    Can we please drop our differences, STFU and and get behind Bill and Barry? They need SUPPORT. It is the fight of our lives, and at the moment we look like total backyarders.

    Tim
    Carbon Really Ain't Pollution.

  15. #540

    Re: Queensland Snapper Ban and RIS released.

    Timi,

    I don't think there are many that are not behind Bill and Barry and Co. I also don't see how Rec Anglers having a constructive conversation about the future of Rec Angling to be counter productive. I am with Pin Head, as much as I admire the work that has been done on behalf of Rec Anglers there are a couple of facts that can not be over looked.

    1. Rec Anglers have been screwed over WAY worse than the 4 piss poor options that are on the table right now, and how much did they blow up? How much did they manage to change? In the big scheme of things large parts of Moreton Bay and the GBRMP are off limits but shouldn't be. AND FISHERIES know it! Do you think they are scared to piss off Rec Anglers? Why would they be?

    2. DEEDI is there primarily for the Commercial Sector. I am sure they have worked out that almost no matter what they do to screw us over, the $$$$ bottom line for the other two sectors will only get better. And that is exactly what their performance is rated on.

    3. They are more worried about keeping hold of their cushy jobs than they are about doing the right thing by all. Now who has the largest lobby group? Who can easily get their words in the paper at will? The commercial sectory/Seafood Industry Association.

    Again I admire their work and thank them whole heartedly for their efforts but it may as well be like sending 10 blokes up the cliffs at Gallipoli, especially considering the fairest sollution requires Anna to put her hand in her pocket straight after Billions in flood damages and probably more on the way.

    Cheers

    Chris
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

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