solder weld then crimp or crimp only

[peterbo3]

Hi Fed,
The tiny ² is great. Got any more tricks for those of us that are keyboard challenged?

[Fed]

½ is the other one I use all the time. ALT plus 171 on the keypad.

Now the weird thing is it doesn't work, in firefox or IE it takes me back to my homepage so you have to create it in notepad then copy & paste it in here. One day I'll find out why.

Google asci and you will see all the little things you can make.

[ozscott]

Have OB given up on us all on this thread?

Cheers

[PinHead]

Have OB given up on us all on this thread?

Cheers

I doubt it Scott...I reckon he would be scouring all sorts of literature to find out which guage metal you should use to enable the most adequate voltage flow with limited resistance..BUT..also the force required to adequaltely do the crimping. All out of my league but a learned man such as yourself would have no trouble following it.

[ozscott]

I doubt it Scott...I reckon he would be scouring all sorts of literature to find out which guage metal you should use to enable the most adequate voltage flow with limited resistance..BUT..also the force required to adequaltely do the crimping. All out of my league but a learned man such as yourself would have no trouble following it.

I doubt it mate...OB lost me pages ago. I can understand the hose analogy but thats about as far as it goes.

Cheers

[finga]

I doubt it mate...OB lost me pages ago. I can understand the hose analogy but thats about as far as it goes.
Cheers

Was it helpful??
If you need anymore explanation please ask.

½ is the other one I use all the time. ALT plus 171 on the keypad.

Now the weird thing is it doesn't work, in firefox or IE it takes me back to my homepage so you have to create it in notepad then copy & paste it in here. One day I'll find out why.

No wonder it wouldn't work.
Firefox dude got me.
I thought I was just dumb.

[ozscott]

Was it helpful??
If you need anymore explanation please ask.


.

Sure was Finga. It was heavily used in the 12 volt doctors guide to boat wiring. I reckon without the water analogy it would be hard to visualise electricity, although putting that together with my year 12 physics was a good combination (...physics was so long ago its insane).

Cheers

[oldboot]

Oldboot, your dribbling again.

Tell us what the actual resistance is of the solder in the scenario you are providing.

No dribbling you are just displaying your unwillingness to discuss in a civilised manner.

This understanding of the limitation due to the poor conductance and low melting point of soft solder is central and basic to and understanding of soldering.....I am simply gob smacked that you would argue othewise.

Ya don't need to know the resistance all you need to know, that in the example of the short lug with insufficient surface area....... the soldered joint with insufficient surface area will have about half the current carrying capacity of the cable maybe less.......

In a situation where there is a high current in the cable near capacity like in a fault situation or poor design the solder joint will fail long before the copper and likley well before the the insulation melts. and well below the capacity of the cable

I have seen quite a few examples of this sort failure in faulty items.




As far as my soldeing example.....I did not say the lug was flat.....and I said IF there was a hole in the lug.

now so you recon you cant solder a lug with a hole on the loop end, because the solder will run out.........

well if you are heavy handed with the heat and the cable is not a neat fit......damn right..and it will get harder and harder as the lugs and cable gets bigger and the stranding gets coarser

you blokes might have plenty of experience with big heavy lugs with coarsely stranded cables.

Obviolsy if you are talking about heating the cable seperately from the lug and you are talking about up a pole, obvioulsy you are not talking about finely stranded insulated cables or smaller lugs

but with smaller lugs and finely stranded cables things can work a little differently.


If the cable is finely stranded and a neat fit in the lug and you arent heavy handed with the heat it can be done..... capiliray action will draw the solder into the joint.

But fine work and subtlety is not something I have come to expect from electricians.

SO if you are stuck with a piece of cable and you have to fit a lug with a hole in the end.....how do YOU do it.

cheers

[PinHead]

No dribbling you are just displaying your unwillingness to discuss in a civilised manner.

This understanding of the limitation due to the poor conductance and low melting point of soft solder is central and basic to and understanding of soldering.....I am simply gob smacked that you would argue othewise.

Ya don't need to know the resistance all you need to know, that in the example of the short lug with insufficient surface area....... the soldered joint with insufficient surface area will have about half the current carrying capacity of the cable maybe less.......

In a situation where there is a high current in the cable near capacity like in a fault situation or poor design the solder joint will fail long before the copper and likley well before the the insulation melts. and well below the capacity of the cable

I have seen quite a few examples of this sort failure in faulty items.




As far as my soldeing example.....I did not say the lug was flat.....and I said IF there was a hole in the lug.

now so you recon you cant solder a lug with a hole on the loop end, because the solder will run out.........

well if you are heavy handed with the heat and the cable is not a neat fit......damn right..and it will get harder and harder as the lugs and cable gets bigger and the stranding gets coarser

you blokes might have plenty of experience with big heavy lugs with coarsely stranded cables.

Obviolsy if you are talking about heating the cable seperately from the lug and you are talking about up a pole, obvioulsy you are not talking about finely stranded insulated cables or smaller lugs

but with smaller lugs and finely stranded cables things can work a little differently.


If the cable is finely stranded and a neat fit in the lug and you arent heavy handed with the heat it can be done..... capiliray action will draw the solder into the joint.

But fine work and subtlety is not something I have come to expect from electricians.

SO if you are stuck with a piece of cable and you have to fit a lug with a hole in the end.....how do YOU do it.

cheers

and your qualifications are ????

[OPTI]

i crimp and solder everything ,use tinned wire heat shrink and you will never have a problem.for battery cables i use 2b&s generally .i crimp the lugs and then hot dip in a pot,this is the best method ive found and doesnt burn the insulation.
now in the 25 years ive been doing it ive never had a failure,ive had boats sink and the battery cables are like new and the best test is float switch wire in a bilge pump set up ,where the joins are submerged most of the time ,again usually the float switch or pump fail before my wiring connection fails.
imop you have to solder to stop corrosion entering the wire,its the best way to achieve it.heat shrink alone isnt enough,and properly support the wire is also very inportant ,never let the wire hang from the connection,this is an example of a dash set up .

[finga]

Opti...maaate. You forgot the gauge on the left of the switch panel.
I bet it was an afterthought.
Nice. Real nice

[PinHead]

uh oh OPTI..nice looking work BUT..I can see it coming...maybe this weekend.
and the thread will be..Have you worked out the fields and heat dissipation of all those wires in that loom..all cable tied together..be careful mate..could be opening a can of worms now.

[finga]

But fine work and subtlety is not something I have come to expect from electricians.

SO if you are stuck with a piece of cable and you have to fit a lug with a hole in the end.....how do YOU do it.

cheers

blah, blah, blah.
I can't believe you actually read that Pinhead.
Fine work and subtlety is not something I have come to expect from electricians...
Mmm. I reckon fibre-optics is pretty fine and precise work and if I look on the wall somewhere there's a ticket that says I am qualified in all aspects of fibre-optics including terminations and splices and all that type of caper and I can legally do it.
It's near the cable joiners ticket and the overhead line-workers ticket and the installation inspectors ticket and electrical fitter/mechanics ticket from 2 states and the old electrical contractors certificates from 2 states and the picture of my nan's and myself.

SO if you are stuck with a piece of cable and you have to fit a lug with a hole in the end.....how do YOU do it.
Call an electrician.. Oh, hang on. That's one of the tickets on my wall.
But to answer your question I need to know some things first.
What size/type of cable and what size/type of lug and what is the expected voltage/current range.

I too would love to see the data on soldered connections Oldboot has been talking about.
Where is it??

I wonder what he thinks about when a lug turns up that is designed to be only soldered??

If the solder is such a bad thing why are most lugs tinned??
Why is the better cable to use in boats tinned??

Here's a bit of trivia brought to you by a well known, world wide terminal mob.
http://www.bracoworldwide.com/pdfs/a9.pdf
Read the blurb at the top where it says soldering type terminals (blah, blah) are used where high value of current flow is desired and due to soldering loose terminations are avoided, thereby preventing heating at termination ends.
Sh!t eh.
How can they say that??
Oldboot says differently.
Funny how they don't mention the high value of current flow in their crimped terminations.
http://www.bracoworldwide.com/pdfs/a1.pdf

[Fed]

i crimp the lugs and then hot dip in a pot

Well there you go another way to do it, Crimp & Dip good one Opti.

[Bros]

i crimp and solder everything ,use tinned wire heat shrink and you will never have a problem.for battery cables i use 2b&s generally .i crimp the lugs and then hot dip in a pot,this is the best method ive found and doesnt burn the insulation.

But that is not the same the electricial connection is the crimp and the solder is only there to fill up the voids to eliminate corrosion.