solder weld then crimp or crimp only

[Bros]

I suppose you young whipper snappers weren't even taught how to do lead wipes either I suppose.

I'm no whipper snapper but lead wiping was a cable joiners job

Anybody remember splicing cables?? You know, the wrap this way and then that way etc etc.
We used to do that heaps on overhead copper. Strong then new and never failed and not even soldered.

Yea I remember but as we were on the ground ours had to be soldered as well.

[oldboot]

Jaycar and altronics do a reasonable set of ratchet crimpers..very similar, for arround $40.

I have a pair, thay do a reasonable job, they don't feel as firm in the hand as my other set, but the jaws close up nice under preasure and that is what matters.


My better set, "Quick crimp" brand emboss the lug with both the die size and brand of crimper......back when I was keen I used to send them away to get them "calibrated"..........these were considered a cheap set when I baught them....the name brand ones were rediculus price at the time.

the other thing is the better set the yellow lug hole in the die is wider across the jaws, the cheaper ones are the same width as the others.

I have seen cheap ratchet crimpers in supercheap for arround $20......not super flash but the jaws seemed to mate up properly and that is what matters.

Any set of ratchet crimpers that work are better than a pressed tin item.

Remember if you buy a good set and look after them you will have them for life.



As far as all this soldering we did in the past.........well, that was another story, because there was always some sort of "procedure".

If you were an apprentice in any of the power companies, PMG/telecom or the armed forces......they drilled you for hours on solder terminations of a wide variety.....and remember most of those there was some sort of mechaincal means where by the cables were retained in the joint.

And concerning failures.......OH, HELL......if you recon failures were uncommon you are dreaming........there were plenty of blokes out there that were either lazy, pig ignorant or simply had no talent.....I have seen plenty of horrible soldering and plenty of failures due to poor soldering.


The single biggest step forward in reliability in the telephone system wiring was elimination of soldering anywhere possible.....crush boxes, wire wrap, crimp IDC and what now dominates Krone..... but the clots still manage to bugger that up

Those of us with the talent and who where trained properly have a very good chance of making a good solder joint.
The rest of society......yeh well

It takes a lot more talent and time to get someone doing reliable solder joints than doing good reliable crimps.


cheers

[TheRealAndy]

No wonder all the cable joining done years ago has failed.
All soldered from what I seem to remember.

I seem to remember a hell of a lot of crimp terminations failing and the soldered stuff would be still going if it has not been 'upgraded' from when I was working in substations and with underground pot heads (with pitch even heaven forbid) and the like.
These would be in cables ranging in size from 10mm (the smallest we had for normal run of the mill work hanging services to houses) to cables about as big as your arm.

I suppose you young whipper snappers weren't even taught how to do lead wipes either I suppose.

Anybody remember splicing cables?? You know, the wrap this way and then that way etc etc.
We used to do that heaps on overhead copper. Strong then new and never failed and not even soldered.

My point?? Either way can fail unless you do it right.

My recollection of repairs back when I was an apprentice was usually either solder faults or faults with socketed chips.

Now things used to be soldered, but then we used to use valves too. Then more reliable methods were found and so those methods were adopted.

And I remember splicing cables, I was tought the old school way. I also remember making looms the old way, no zip ties or spiral wrap, but rather using cotton. Was it better? Hell no! Mind you it did look better.

[finga]

I also remember making looms the old way, no zip ties or spiral wrap, but rather using cotton. Was it better? Hell no! Mind you it did look better.

Now there's a blast from the past.
I rewired all the distribution substation panels in Murwillumbah in the mid 80's.
6 months with my head in panels and tinned flex cables and spools of cotton for tying the looms...and then some scum-bag would change their minds on circuitry so it all gets cut off.

I had a solder fault today.
The LG front loader decided enoughs enough.
Ended up been a tactile switch that's used to turn the bugger on.
Dry joint on the board.
Sad thing is you can't buy everyday, run of the mill tactile switches out here
So there's a bit of flex and a missile launcher switch hanging out the front of the washer now

[Fed]

Try here Finga
http://au.element14.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=0
Scroll down to switches click then select tactile click then run your filters.
Looks like you can buy over the net but if it's a problem I can grab what you want & mail it to you.

[PinHead]

are we talking about a crimp lug guys? one of those pathetic lil metal things you shove a wire in..hititi with the pliers or side cutters and push it on a terminal..if so..why the dramas? a very simple item and very simple to use.

[finga]

Try here Finga
http://au.element14.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=0
Scroll down to switches click then select tactile click then run your filters.
Looks like you can buy over the net but if it's a problem I can grab what you want & mail it to you.

I'll be at Jaycar this week sometime thanks

[finga]

are we talking about a crimp lug guys? one of those pathetic lil metal things you shove a wire in..hititi with the pliers or side cutters and push it on a terminal..if so..why the dramas? a very simple item and very simple to use.

I'm on to you.
Now your just baiting him.
Round and round she goes...where she stops nobody knows

[PinHead]

not baiting anyone finga..lol..come on mate..it is just a bloody crimp lug..my 2 year old grandaughter could fit one without all this drama.

[finga]

not baiting anyone finga..lol..come on mate..it is just a bloody crimp lug..my 2 year old grandaughter could fit one without all this drama.

She probably well could because it ain't rocket science in reality.
I reckon a trained monkey could do it.

I'd really like to know how they recalibrate crimpers too.
Buggered if I can work out they'd do it, or why anybody would have it done.
It'll be easier/cheaper just to buy new crimpers.

Another thing I'd like to know is how a crimp that pretty well welds a cable can be achieved when the crimping is done with a layer of plastic between the crimpers and terminal.
I would have thought a force sufficient enough to near weld copper would squash the begeesus out of a bit of plastic.
But who am I to know?? I'm just a dumb, broken down sparky.

[TheRealAndy]

She probably well could because it ain't rocket science in reality.
I reckon a trained monkey could do it.

I'd really like to know how they recalibrate crimpers too.
Buggered if I can work out they'd do it, or why anybody would have it done.
It'll be easier/cheaper just to buy new crimpers.

Another thing I'd like to know is how a crimp that pretty well welds a cable can be achieved when the crimping is done with a layer of plastic between the crimpers and terminal.
I would have thought a force sufficient enough to near weld copper would squash the begeesus out of a bit of plastic.
But who am I to know?? I'm just a dumb, broken down sparky.

The only crimp tools I have ever seen calibrated was in a millspec loom manufacturer, and each tool was calibrated for each connected and wire size/type. Dont know how they did it but I just assumed the crimped some samples then tested the sample. I know they destructivly tension test the samples.

As for the second question, I cant say I have ever seen a high current cable crimped with a plastic cover.

[Noelm]

so then lets just recap here, to make a good secure, waterproof, high current carrying, flexible join/termination a good quality crimper with the correct size terminals and wire is the best and almost the only way to do it, correct? how it was done 30 years ago (and it maybe still working) is not the way to do it now!

[finga]

so then lets just recap here, to make a good secure, waterproof, high current carrying, flexible join/termination a good quality crimper with the correct size terminals and wire is the best and almost the only way to do it, correct? how it was done 30 years ago (and it maybe still working) is not the way to do it now!

Apparently.....
Don't forget you need the correct crimper for the correct termination for the correct wire and, most importantly, your tongue has to be out the left side of the gob whilst crimping....but that's only if your right handed.

Any method will fail if not done correctly and in the case of boats I reckon it's more important to talk about how to preserve your electrical installation by talking about things like cable support and alleviating environmental influences.

[finga]

The only crimp tools I have ever seen calibrated was in a millspec loom manufacturer, and each tool was calibrated for each connected and wire size/type. Dont know how they did it but I just assumed the crimped some samples then tested the sample. I know they destructivly tension test the samples.

As for the second question, I cant say I have ever seen a high current cable crimped with a plastic cover.

Our hydraulic crimpers were always sent away to make sure the hydraulic pressures were OK.
Other then that there isn't much to calibrate.
The crimp could only go down until the dies came together.
The dies didn't wear out ,and if they did, the crimp would only be more squishy (how's that for technical??)

With the crimpers used for pre-insulated terminals about the only thing, I could think of, to watch would be the distances the dies actually crimped down to under the required pressure.
I don't know how's they adjust them if they were out...other then by a big hammer and a chuck in the bin.

[oldboot]

The reason you get an insulated lug crimper calibrated is because an employer or a particular site requires it.....& unless you have a shingle out front that says NATA or such you could not possibly test your own tools.


Any body requiring a crimper to be calibtrated would require the same of a new one.

the two critical things are that the jaws close and mate properly under preasure and that the jaws are capable of exerting enough preasure.

The joints and pivots do wear and fail, and the better units are adjustable for wear.

In practice, for the average mug, you can observe this by crimping a lug or two.

If you doubt the capacity of a good crimper to do a "near welded joint", try cutting a few appart.

Look at a properly crimped insulated lug...it does squash the bejesus out of the plastic...that is how they work

cheers