Legalities of electrical work on recreational vessels in QLD

[finga]

I reckon you all know that I'm fairly passionate about my trade..and that been an electrician.
And you all probably realise I'm also passionate about doing things in the correct manner.
So this subject has been on my mind for a long time especially seeing some of the horror stories that pass for electrical work on recreational boats.
So I ask a question.
What legalities are there that correlate directly to the electrical wiring done on our recreational boats.
Is there any legal requirement for electrical work done on recreational vessels or not??
OK...who thinks what??
Who knows what??

Cheers then
Scott

[Mike Delisser]

I can see this could turn into another poo fight

[marto78]

I never heard of an auto lecy giving a safety certificate when they put in a new stereo or fix a bunged light. Seeing as how 12v dc is unlikely to kill someone I dont see an issue with it apart from a few shonky jobs by the backyarders (or dealers). Personally I would rather see a nav light or pump that doesnt turn on then some of the stupid sh!t I see done in peoples homes. There are a lot of homes around Brisbane that are an accident waiting to happen.
Marto

[mitch92]

I have always been told that LV and HV = Must be ticketed. Anything that is ELV is pretty much open slather - unless in a work place where rules are in place to govern the work I.E above and beyond what is required legally??

Cheers
Mitch

[PinHead]

some basic algebra:

OB + F = a circle.

[TheRealAndy]

some basic algebra:

OB + F = a circle.

[TheRealAndy]

I have always been told that LV and HV = Must be ticketed. Anything that is ELV is pretty much open slather - unless in a work place where rules are in place to govern the work I.E above and beyond what is required legally??

Cheers
Mitch

Doesn't LV cover DC upto 50V? Or am I going mad? (probably the latter)

[marty666]

any thing over 36 volts and you need at least a limited electricians license any thing under then no license required but there is a duty of care that every one has to up hold

[Lucky_Phill]

some basic algebra:

OB + F = a circle.

You are on fire Greg..............



LP

[seastorm]

Extra low voltage: Not exceeding 50 volts a.c or 120 volts ripple-free d.c
Low voltage: Exceeding extra low voltage but not exceeding 1000 volts a.c or 1500 volts d.c.
Finga are you talking about D.C wiring or A.C wiring on boats?

[cormorant]

You know what 12v DC stands for

that is 12 volt "( edit )"

That is because every ( edit ), thinks they can wire up 12v and not do any damage. Just tell that to the coroner if a fire starts offshore or a wiring fault causes a problem.

Stuff I see from some "professionals " and on new boats is a disgrace. Stuff from some boatyards and repairers is the same.

I am amazed there hasn't been a on water death and court case over as there has to have been a lot of near tragedy's.

As for AC on larger boats. The average sparkie shouldn't be allowed withing 100 miles of it. I know the average sparky can read ( so they say) but so many times they monkey see and monkey do and just replace a bad idea back the way it was. You really need someone who has seen a few stuff ups and been around a lot of older boats to see how water, movement degrades cheap fittings, bad routing and what happens when shortcuts are taken. I guess everyone believes that a RCD will save everyone.


edited by me


Phil has edited out my words and **

I'll just leave it as dumb

That is every dumb idiot thinks he can do no harm.

OK, that'll work...

[finga]

I'm just trying to makes heads or tails of what regulation that are out there and someone smarter then me might know something definitive.
I have found out a few thing but I have asked for interpretations for clarification.
I'm talking about electrical work carried out on recreational vessels up to the 120V DC which is voltages in the ELV range. (extra low voltage = ELV and LV = low voltage).
Anything involving 240 V AC instantly becomes the domain of an Electrical Contractor unless your a qualified, licensed electrician working on your own boat.

Oh, that another thing...can we please keep the jargon limited so those who are not cursed with the lingo will be able to follow.

So what we know definitively...

• Pinhead is a comedian.

• I'm slow because I didn't get Pinhead for awhile.....but when I did I had a giggle. Smart @rse

• Sea Storm is correct with the definitions of voltages.

• RCD's are not the be all, end all, of electrical safety where 240/415 or higher AC voltages are involved.

Is there any arguments with what's above??

I think we're wanting to know mainly about DC voltages below the magical 120 V ripple free threshold to resolve any outstanding queries.
Will that do??

Cheers then

[tigermullet]

"I am amazed there hasn't been a on water death and court case over as there has to have been a lot of near tragedy's." Cormorant

Me too!. On an acquaintance's boat, the wiring behind the dash caught fire and the cabin filled with smoke before the wires burnt through. If it had happened 90 minutes prior, when a messy refuelling was underway, we could easily have been a yellow flash on someone's horizon.

Two incidents separated by a little time. Lucky. Had they been coincident, poor practices might have been the end of us. Mistakes with 12 volts can be deadly.

[ozscott]

I got the 12 Volt doctors guide to boat wiring year and years ago and studied it. I had worked on motor vehicle 12 volt. I used the (non trade) knowledge from both to wire up several of my boats. My Vag for eg is not the last word in tidy wiring behind the dash but it is way over-engineered in terms of wire core size, tin coated everything, proper connections soldered and crimped (and where crimped and soldered using the pull tests recommended in that book) and insulation and protection from rubbing. I have done on my current boat all the electronics, trim tabs, bilge pumps with dual switching and auto float, dual batteries, lights, nav lights, electric windlass, radios (marine and other), speakers, GPS's, fuel flow meters, compass with night lighting etc etc. Never had a failure - or for that matter a blown bulb yet! I would trust myself not to rush and get the job done correctly. I would trust some sparky's I have known and not others. Its like any trade or profession really.

Cheers

[oldboot]

OK I accept that Finga & I have had a confliced phase, But I think we have agreed we can learn off each other.

Our views are probaly closer than it would appear.

There is almost no regulation of ELV work on land or water out side of the electrical trade where the regulations are mostly there to regulate it in company with higher voltages, or in a communications network context.

There are quite a variety of standards and codes, but I have not found any laws that make them mandatory in small recreational boats.

This is why most of the wiring and DC electrical work on small recreational craft is done both in manufacture and in the boat yards, by those with no electrical trade training what so ever.

I think Finga & I would be 100% in agreement that the standard of electrical work on recrational boats generaly is disgusting.

What is regulated is what navigation lights we must carry, how they perform and how they should be operated. This is mandated by law at several levels of government and is internationaly consistent

What is mandated but indirectly by the "general safety obligation" is that the electrical system should be safe and fit for purpose and the responsibilty of the skipper.....like every other aspect of the boat.

I have looked at several of the documents that pertain to commercial vessels, and although an 8' dingy could be a commercial vessel and be legaly mandated as having to comply with the appropriate requierments of survey.
Most of the content of these standards and codes refeers to situations occuring in larger boats and to the 240 volt side of things.

Quite a lot of the commercial codes and some of the recreational stuff is here.

http://www.nmsc.gov.au/index.php

One interesting thing .
I was reading that under commercial vessel requirements,
You can not have any switches or fuses in a battery box
Battery cables must be double insulated.
and a few other things that maybe a little hard to live with for some people.

This issue that finga raises is sufficient to cause MSQ to issue this.

http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/~/media/ba...s_licences.pdf

But is says almost nothing about ELV DC.

Now to realy set the cat among the pidgeons.........You require no electrical qualifications whatsoever to do any electrical work of any type on "foreign going vessels" while they are afloat......
Put it in a dry dock and its a different story..... but more because of union power rather than the power of law.......unlicenced electrical work in a drydock or slip on a foreign going vessel is likely to result in an immediate all trades stop work.

This has been a huge issue for the marine shipping engineers ( the blokes who live in the engine rooms) for quite some time......and even then these guys while trained and some of whom may be electicians, have never required a shore bassed electrical licence to do electrical work aboard a foreighn going vessel. My father-inlaw was a radio officer on oil tankers.....he never had any electrical licence, not even restricted..... but was required to perform various " electrical work aboard.

To give an idea how important the authorities thing the DC electrical thing is.
The national standard for commercial vessels.
Has a 38 page section covering electrical, a small part of which covers DC, most of which is taken up by batteries.
The same standard has a 40 page section on communications equipment.

cheers