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Thread: Global warming fraud heads to court!

  1. #61

    Re: Global warming fraud heads to court!

    comment removed

  2. #62

    Re: Global warming fraud heads to court!

    Lead is best.....

  3. #63

    Re: Global warming fraud heads to court!

    Nigelr, I just thought it would be interesting to see where the general view on this topic lies amongst people on the forum. Seems there are people in both camps who trust different sources of information, whether they be government or not, US or elsewhere.

    My comment on someones view being based on who they believe and trust stands, as unless you work or study in an area, you have to trust (hopefully) 'qualified' peoples comments and information. Which leads to your view that government can't be trusted, which is fair enough. Others may see government as the most trusted source of info, but thats their view.

    I am not arguing either way, but always interested to see which way the majority swings in different groups. In this case being fishermen online

    Murdoch

  4. #64

    Re: Global warming fraud heads to court!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler View Post
    I just wonder how many others on here actually also believe in climate change no one can dispute climate change ..the climate changes constantly..BUT..does mankind have any effect on the climate? ATM I do not believe their is sufficient proof to start penalising people and countries based on these theories. to an extent but are not inclined to say so for fear of being flamed.Me i am entitled to an opinion and i shall.

    Am i some sort of extremist greenie,not by a long shot. I am probably greener than a lot of so called greenies but I don't subsribe to making massive changes that will adeversely affect millions of people baed on unsubstantiated "evidence".

    I but i do concur with what Bob Katter had to say on the subject and that was,is it really so painful to make minor adjustments to our lifestyle as a preventative measure.
    .................................................. .................................................. ............................

  5. #65

    Re: Global warming fraud heads to court!

    Quote Originally Posted by Camhawk88 View Post
    Pinhead, science by it's nature, is not based on facts but rather on disproving a given hypothesis. A process of elimination of possible theories is probably the best way to describe it. Now we have many facts derived from science- the earth is round, gravity is a force, an organism is the sum of it's parent's DNA etc. These findings weren't found out by picking a fact and saying- 'it stands to reason can't you see?" Of course we know now however it was a process of assumptions, proving and disproving hypothoses, and in some cases using modeling and other tools to come to these conclusions.

    AND when these facts were proposed and could be tangibly shown, there were and are still many scientists who disagreed and shouted down some of the world's greatest scientists. Just because there is not 100% support in the scientific community over a finding does not mean that it is merely an estimate or a guess.
    Classic example- evolution. Darwin was regularly pillored for his gfroundbreaking theory and still is by many who feel there religous beliefs are threatened by it. It was based on observation, data, assumtions and an incredible brain, however it is something we can never absolutely prove (I have all the proof I need)- such is science.
    Indeed there are some scientists who throughout the scientific community are renowned for making their career based on going against the flow and opposing findings that the great majority agree with (there is a local one commonly quoted in these chat boards). Sometimes these are the pioneers who make the big discovery, but more often than not, they are grandstanding to make a name for themselves and are usually seen (rightfully so in most cases) as the village idiot.

    Now with an issue such as global warming, or any atmospheric condition, it is a massively complex and volatile system with many unknowns. Have a look at weather forecasts, 100 years ago we would not have had much idea of what the weather would do in a couple of days, where now we have a reasonable idea of what will happen in the coming season, month or week. As everyone who fishes knows but, it is an inexact science and they do get it wrong.

    To find out what is going on, assumptions must be made based on what we do know of the system and models are an essential tool to experiment what happens under different conditions. Very similar to fisheries management (trying to count the trees in a forest that are invisible and constantly moving), we collect what data we can but because we cant count all the fish we need to use the data we have to create models based on asumptions. We can use the data to have an idea of reproductive rates, fecundity, growth rates mortality rates etc. But at the end of the day we need to make a number of assumtions based on this knowledge and plug them into a model to get an idea of what is down there.

    This is what we call science- so to say it should be based on fact alone and not on assumptions, models etc.- well that is not science and if we had all the facts we wouldnt need science.

    Cheers,
    I am afraid that guesswork and assumptions just does not cut it any more...I want facts.
    If the scientific community cannot give facts then we are all scientists as we all have our guesses on any particular subject.
    Some so called scientific assumptions has caused some major and tragic guesses and not waited for the facts...thankfully some people like Dr William McBride go a bit further and cop flack but end up with the facts..but how many lives were destroyed prior to his findings.

  6. #66

    Re: Global warming fraud heads to court!

    Hmmm.

    Someone clever once said...

    "A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be."

    and...

    "If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts."

    and...

    "No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong."

    -Albert Einstein. He was being sarcastic with the second one - he'd seen it before.

    The Troposphere is cooling. That has been proven. That is at DIRECT odds with the CO2 driven models. A single experiment (though others have also debunked the models, the Hockey Stick, CO2 sensitivity, CO2 residency, Medieval Warm Period, Little Ice Age)...

    Tim
    Carbon Really Ain't Pollution.

  7. #67

    Re: Global warming fraud heads to court!

    Quote Originally Posted by PinHead View Post
    I am afraid that guesswork and assumptions just does not cut it any more...I want facts.
    If the scientific community cannot give facts then we are all scientists as we all have our guesses on any particular subject.
    Some so called scientific assumptions has caused some major and tragic guesses and not waited for the facts...thankfully some people like Dr William McBride go a bit further and cop flack but end up with the facts..but how many lives were destroyed prior to his findings.
    Facts are borne out of the scientific method. This method includes the use of assumptions- ask any scientist which ever side of the fence they sit on. My point is pinhead- you dont start off with the facts - you use the scientific method to determine them. If you want facts then Im affraid you , like everyone else , will need to content youself with the knowledge that assumptions will be utilised in order to arrive at the facts. Of course, as pointed out, sometimes the wrong assumption ends up in disaster. This is the danger of scientists not thoroughly investigating all possibilities before drawing conclusions.


  8. #68

    Re: Global warming fraud heads to court!

    Quote Originally Posted by TimiBoy View Post
    Hmmm.

    "No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong."

    -Albert Einstein. He was being sarcastic with the second one - he'd seen it before.


    Tim
    Further to the argument on facts- Einstien's statement is a perfect example of how science is more a process of dispelling what is wrong rather than proving what is right. Facts in science are only notions that have not yet been proven wrong (whether they are or not).


  9. #69

    Re: Global warming fraud heads to court!

    so we should pay a carbon tax based on assumptions? Top idea that one.

  10. #70

    Re: Global warming fraud heads to court!

    I said absolutely nothing about carbon taxes. In fact none of what I have said in this thread has a bias either way wrt global warming/ green house effect etc.

    I was simply pointing out to you the fundamental basis of science, regardless of type, is reliant on assumptions. Climate Sceptics and Alarmists and everyone in between are quoting science that at it's core, used assumptions to arrive to it's conclusion.


  11. #71

    Re: Global warming fraud heads to court!

    I really don't need any pointing out that a lot of science is guesswork..well aware of that and that is why I am adamant I recognise none of it unless it is proven fact.

  12. #72

    Re: Global warming fraud heads to court!

    Quote Originally Posted by Camhawk88 View Post
    Further to the argument on facts- Einstien's statement is a perfect example of how science is more a process of dispelling what is wrong rather than proving what is right. Facts in science are only notions that have not yet been proven wrong (whether they are or not).
    Is anyone else having trouble with this statement?

    Einstein's statement is quite clear, and doesn't need reinterpretation, but I'll try it for you.

    "If a billion experiments prove me right, and one proves me wrong, then I am wrong." OK? I typed it slowly for you...

    CAGW is the Hypothesis, and it has been proven wrong. Not just once, either.

    Tim
    Carbon Really Ain't Pollution.

  13. #73

    Re: Global warming fraud heads to court!

    Oceans levels are rising too i reckon.

    DoNotFeedTheTrollsAandBelligerent

  14. #74

    Re: Global warming fraud heads to court!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeler View Post
    Oceans levels are rising too i reckon.
    LOL, you're just trying to get me started, ya bastard!



    Cheers,

    Tim
    Carbon Really Ain't Pollution.

  15. #75

    Re: Global warming fraud heads to court!

    Timiboy you said the troposphere is cooling. That was actually debunked in 2005, the data from the satellite was proved inconclusive because it started taking readings in the early 90's at the equator at 2pm everyday. By the late 90's the orbit of the satellite had degraded and all the readings were being taken at 5pm. But of course the skeptics didn't say this when they told you the troposphere is cooling did they. I guess the argument that the troposphere is cooling suited there denial better.

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