Big Barra Transfer from Fresh to Salt Water.

[Lovey80]

Hi to all you Barra fanatics out there. I hope the recent eagles nest thread doesn't stop some from posting as I would like as many and varied opinions on this as possible.

I should mention from the get go that I have never fished impoundment Barra but plan on putting that to bed once my boat mods are finished.

The main point of the thread is to get opinions from those that love to tackle the big Barra on our great lakes and dams on the possibility/viability/effectiveness of setting up a program where Large Barra are taken from our big lakes and put into the Salt where they have the chance to breed lots and lots of more Barra that could eventually end up on the table.

A few points I would like to see covered in detail and if there is any definitive study/data please throw it in but opinions are just as wanted:

Is it likely/possible that freshwater Barra that have grown up in the Fresh an hence do not breed in the fresh would become breeders once use to the salt.

Also the issue of predation. There are opinions for and against on this but let it fly anyway. Do you think that taking a few of the larger girls out of the system and relocating them to the salt would help the many fingerlings that are restocked every year reach maturity/great sport fish?

Also the issue of DNA/strains of fish. I read somewhere (i think on another thread) that the people that do the breeding etc have a problem with allowing a bred fish that has it's roots in another system getting into a wild fishery of a different system. So do you hold any weight to this, know a reason why this would be bad/ see any reason why this should be restricted?

Out it's out there lets get discussing! I'll post my virgin thoughts on the first reply and see where my opinion is after all the discussion.

Cheers

Chris

[Lovey80]

Ok so my original thoughts are that it would be great to see these magnificent fighting fish that so many love to chase become breeders in the Salt. Currently it seems that the stocking programs that are working so well are being centrally beneficial which is fine but it would be great to see our wild fisheries benefit from this also. While I am a complete novice when it comes to Barra it would be great to get educated through the forum so here goes with my initial thoughts.

The first of my additional points from above is wether these great fish would become productive once introduced to the salt. It's seems that naturally (correct me if I am wrong) that up north it is common for fish to be trapped in Fresh Water systems and spend considerable amounts of time growing in the fresh before the right amount of rains come to flood the area and get them to the salt. Under this reasoning I think the se fish would become breeders.

Secondly predation, I have no insight into this but have read comments from others that larger Barra will eat smaller Barra. Hence making the effectiveness and survivability of the smaller Barra much more limited. If this is in fact the case I think taking the larger ones out for a greater purpose would give the fingerlings more chance to grow and make the restocking more worthwhile.

Thirdly the issue of the scientists not wanting different strains of fish in different waters. I have no real clue on this so I would love to know more but considering that Barra have been known to move systems to some extent there is already a crossing of strains to some areas. What harm can come of crossing the strains anyway?

Just my uneducated thoughts at the start lets see where they end up?

Cheers

Chris

[aussiebasser]

A very few people go to a lot of effort to stock the fisheries to make this the best state in Australia as far as maintaining impoundment stocks. Now you want to get those fish and let them go somewhere else. Remember that the SIP Scheme we have in Queensland is not intended to be a regeneration of fish in the wild. It is promoting a sustainable freshwater impoundment fishery. Short cutting the system, by taking fish paid for by impoundment fishermen to restock an area constantly raped by professional fishing just wouldn't be right IMO.

[PaulMark]

My thoughts entirely,the cost of stocking is quite high and lots of work is done by the stocking groups.To use this system for regenerating wild fisheries,or ultimately provide income for commercial fishers is very wrong.If however the commercial interests could add some support financially and on the ground maybe there could be a way forward.But its still robbing whichever way you look at it.Not a commercial fisho are you???Maybe the pro's should pay a levy,which could be used to restock the systems they are taking the fish from.Now theres a thought.
Paulo

[NAGG]

Probably would be better to put fingerlings in grow out ponds and release them at 30cm ....... At least they would stand a good chance of reaching maturity & spawn..... plus be fast / big enough to be able to survive preditors

I dont know how big barra go after being released - or going over a spillway....... This idea is part of the Scheme that MASA tried to introduce - a small number of fish were to be released into the Kolan R
As has been mentioned - you wouldn't want to do it in any system that allows commercial fishing.

Chris

[warrior]

in an event of a flood in the dams i think the barra would relocate quite well as they are travelling down in the fresh water that has moved over the dam and progressively addapt to the salt enviroment as it gets closer to the sea,but saying this we wouldnt want the great work all the fishstocking groups do go out the window . introducing different strains to these river systems i think would do great harm to the local breeds of barra ,we had the dam overflow twice this year in hervey bay and lost a lot of barra over the wall they eventually went down 3 weirs and into the salt where a few were caught later in the season so they do adapt well natural introduction is the go for me or as nagg said grow them out and introduce them smaller as long as they are compatible with what is already there and see how they go .

[matt fraser]

Is it likely/possible that freshwater Barra that have grown up in the Fresh an hence do not breed in the fresh would become breeders once use to the salt.

Also the issue of predation. There are opinions for and against on this but let it fly anyway. Do you think that taking a few of the larger girls out of the system and relocating them to the salt would help the many fingerlings that are restocked every year reach maturity/great sport fish?

Also the issue of DNA/strains of fish. I read somewhere (i think on another thread) that the people that do the breeding etc have a problem with allowing a bred fish that has it's roots in another system getting into a wild fishery of a different system. So do you hold any weight to this, know a reason why this would be bad/ see any reason why this should be restricted?

G'day Chris, I agree with aussiebasser, Nagg and Warrior. My extra two cents worth:

Impoundment barra would breed once they are in a saltwater environment with the right conditions.

Predation does occur with barra in any environment - not a good reason to take big fish from the lakes. Also a good reason to grow fish out before stocking. But this adds greatly to the costs.

Barra that are stocked in lakes may come from different locations, depending on which hatchery they are purchased from. I believe Mondy has fish from various hatcheries. I don't know what the biologiest/scientist would think about various strains being released in different areas?

In the NT, they do a lot of restocking into the wild. The NT government knows how much fishing tourism means to the economy, so the fishery is well managed and supported.

A big issue I see with your plan is the transportation. Big impoundment barra aren't that good in livewells. I don't know how they'd go with travel.

Matt

[Obi _ Wan]

G'day Chris, I agree with aussiebasser, Nagg and Warrior. My extra two cents worth:



In the NT, they do a lot of restocking into the wild. The NT government knows how much fishing tourism means to the economy, so the fishery is well managed and supported.


Matt

Hey Matt was good to finally meet you a couple of weeks ago.

Now you mentioned one thing that really interests me, that is the NT Governments actions with their fisheries, absolutely spot on and what a difference it has made to the fishery, Full marks to them.

The NSW Government has also been stocking a certain degree as well and look at the results in the Sydney estuaries, also other places through the state.

How can we get it across to the Qld Government that results that the NT government have archieved attracts fishermen from Qld (and all over Australia) to go and spend their money in the NT because that Government has had the nouse to realise that the whole local ecomonies benefit to the tune of millions of dollars.

Cheers,
John.

[NAGG]

I had the pleasure and honor to be shown a little creek system which is stocked by a local stocking group
even though tide & summer conditions were against us ...... I managed a fair few of these little 20-30cm barra in a short session - clearly the practice works and when you look at the NT model ...... why wouldn't you do it in select (closed to pro) locations in Qld

Chris

[warrior]

is there any polly we can vote for soon who loves his barra fishin

[Lovey80]

A very few people go to a lot of effort to stock the fisheries to make this the best state in Australia as far as maintaining impoundment stocks. Now you want to get those fish and let them go somewhere else. Remember that the SIP Scheme we have in Queensland is not intended to be a regeneration of fish in the wild. It is promoting a sustainable freshwater impoundment fishery. Short cutting the system, by taking fish paid for by impoundment fishermen to restock an area constantly raped by professional fishing just wouldn't be right IMO.

Very good point there aussiebasser on I hadn't taken into consideration when starting the thread. You wouldn't want to do this in an area where commercials would benefit.

I understand that the SIP isn't to do with regeneration with a wild fishery, just thought it may be used for a duel purpose and get a double benefit if it has enough pro's for the freshwater stockists as well. Is it really short cutting the system if those said Freshwater fisherman were to be in agreement???

Maybe it could happen in a system that is declared a Recreational Fishing haven?

some good points so far lets keep the discussion going

Cheers

Chris

[Lovey80]

in an event of a flood in the dams i think the barra would relocate quite well as they are travelling down in the fresh water that has moved over the dam and progressively addapt to the salt enviroment as it gets closer to the sea,but saying this we wouldnt want the great work all the fishstocking groups do go out the window . introducing different strains to these river systems i think would do great harm to the local breeds of barra ,we had the dam overflow twice this year in hervey bay and lost a lot of barra over the wall they eventually went down 3 weirs and into the salt where a few were caught later in the season so they do adapt well natural introduction is the go for me or as nagg said grow them out and introduce them smaller as long as they are compatible with what is already there and see how they go .

Warrior, as others have said the fish in these dams are from different areas and the risk of the overflow like you have said has already introduced different strains into the system. So If the stockists are happy to put these fish upstream (dam) with the risk that they could get into the lower system in the event of a spill then I guess the mixing issue isn't that important?

[Lovey80]

G'day Chris, I agree with aussiebasser, Nagg and Warrior. My extra two cents worth:

Impoundment barra would breed once they are in a saltwater environment with the right conditions.

Predation does occur with barra in any environment - not a good reason to take big fish from the lakes. Also a good reason to grow fish out before stocking. But this adds greatly to the costs.

Barra that are stocked in lakes may come from different locations, depending on which hatchery they are purchased from. I believe Mondy has fish from various hatcheries. I don't know what the biologiest/scientist would think about various strains being released in different areas?

In the NT, they do a lot of restocking into the wild. The NT government knows how much fishing tourism means to the economy, so the fishery is well managed and supported.

A big issue I see with your plan is the transportation. Big impoundment barra aren't that good in livewells. I don't know how they'd go with travel.

Matt

Good point to consider about the transportation. I had assumed it would be a matter of taking them from the dam and putting them in the system directly below the wall, letting them make their way down stream as they saw fit. The issue of weirs is also something I didn't take into account.

With other states going down the path of Saltwater licences. If they end up in QLD do you think this would be a worthy project to spend money on if the fish were being put into Rec Fishing Haven systems (if created) and the SIPS was compensated/assisted with cash for restocking the fresh?

A lot to consider I know but great getting all your thoughts from those already passionate about the freshwater impoundments.

Cheers

Chris

P.S. For who ever asked no I am not a Commercial. I am also against netting inshore systems in any form.

[NAGG]

Good point to consider about the transportation. I had assumed it would be a matter of taking them from the dam and putting them in the system directly below the wall, letting them make their way down stream as they saw fit. The issue of weirs is also something I didn't take into account.

With other states going down the path of Saltwater licences. If they end up in QLD do you think this would be a worthy project to spend money on if the fish were being put into Rec Fishing Haven systems (if created) and the SIPS was compensated/assisted with cash for restocking the fresh?

A lot to consider I know but great getting all your thoughts from those already passionate about the freshwater impoundments.

Cheers

Chris


P.S. For who ever asked no I am not a Commercial. I am also against netting inshore systems in any form.

Chris ..... like the SIP , I'm a big fan of a licence ....... if it is well run and the funds used for the benefit of fishoes

NSW bought out the pro fishers on many of the estuary / river systems ...... some are stocked with mulloway ...... these places are now great fishing destinations for the rec angler
You could do the same with Qld waterways ...... barra , jacks & jew are stand outs.

Chris

[Mike Delisser]

Below is a small part of a BushnBeach story I wrote in 2007, at the time the stocking group (MASA) were still working on its implementation so I don't how it went or even if it's still in place now. One of the main MASA members driving the project was a fisheries scientist of many years experience. I remember being very impressed at how proactive the whole stocking group were in everything they did and how hard they were working to be relevant in the local community. Personally I don't really have a strong opinion either way about their plans to release a few big fish into the Kolan River (some dams lose thousands over the wall in floods), as long as they have DPI approval (8 per year I think on the DPI permit) but I do have a strong opinion that as the stocking group that does all the work, runs the big comp to raise funds, and purchases the fish at Mondy, MASA have the right to decide for themselves how they develope that fishery, re taking out a small amount of the big girls. They wanted a fishery where the average angler with average gear and a S.I.P could stand a good chance of catching a barra, not just the very experienced guys with the best gear. I'm not speaking for MASA, it's what I was told at the time and it could have changed by now. I know there were plenty on this site that lined up to give it to MASA about their plans but then that's the Ausfish way sometimes isn't it. It wasn't Dale's point some had a prob with but the issue of removing big fish.
Also looking at it from a gene pool point of veiw some freshwater sections of the Burnett have been stocked with barra for years before Paradise dam was built, and water flows over all the weirs to the salt every year. I'm sure there'd be a few more rivers flowing to the salt that are stocked with barra.
Cheers

Stage two of the project, (due for completion in 2008) is aimed at the long-term sustainability of the Lake Monduran fishery. MASA releases an average of 100,000 barra and 120,000 bass fingerlings into the lake each year so to reduce cannibalisation and allow a higher percentage of the fingerlings a chance to reach maturity, they encourage anglers to consider taking home a percentage of any large barramundi landed (observing size and bag limits). Alternativly anglers will have the opportunity to donate large barra back to MASA by placing them in a holding cage that will be permanently moored across from the ramp. Once installed the cage will be regularly cleared and the barra tranquillised before being transported to the purging tanks also located in the club's new building. The seven day purging process is designed to improve the fishes eating qualities prior to being processed and cooked by the Bundaberg Meals on Wheels for some of their 300 elderly and disabled clients.
MASA also has a DPI permit to release a limited number of large barra each year into freshwater parts of the lower Kolan River. These fish should then be able to migrate downstream and boost the local population of breeding barramundi.