great wall x240

[StevenM]

I justwasted about 5 minutes reading all three pages.

WTF

[wrxhoon]

Scott,

I'm not going to argue with you on Toyota versus Rover , the sales figures speak for them selves I would think. Consumers work it out sooner or later.

What I said in the above post is this : Japs don't lie and the chinese do , I stand by this statement. the fact that any manufacturer doesn't admit a fault has nothing to do with pure lies.
I have been to japan many times and I use to import used cars from there, I even still have one of them in my garage. I could talk to a stranger , ask about a car they were selling and they would describe it in every detail. Do you know in Japan a car that has had even a minor accident is recorded and the dealer has to tell you about it. They grade all auction cars there , cars that have had body repairs are graded R (R= repair) .

You can't go to a Jap manufacturer and tell him to make something for you , say a wheel the same as another well known wheel and put the well known's name on it as well. I think we all know that's the done thing in China in any product you want .

I can go to a Chinese wheel manufacturer give them a wheel from my 911 tell them to make 1000 wheels exactly the same and put the Porsche name on it , no questions asked as long as I pay for them. Tell me where else can you do that ??? Not in JAPAN , I can guarantee that!!

[ozscott]

Scott,

... the sales figures speak for them selves I would think. Consumers work it out sooner or later.

Yes mate the consumers have - http://www.caradvice.com.au/72908/to...-to-last-year/

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Tata-M...e1-587540.aspx

(Toyota down compared to last year and Land Rover up compared to last year).

Anyway total sales are only part of the equation. The Toyo marketing machine is a thing to be reckoned with.

But back to your original point when a lie a lie. Is a lie an omission to tell the truth? Often yes. The Toyo machine for years denied structural problems with the FJ Cruiser off roader and yet CLEARLY it had massive designed issues causing breaks in the front end. I just dont buy the concept that the Chinese car makers lie but the Japanese car manufacturers do not...if you want to think that then no worries, but I wont subscribe to it. I might go and put that to my inlaws who are Chinese and see how they take that. I wont even bother asking my Japanese friends about this because it insults them and the Chinese. Did the Japanese lie about war brides and the theft of Chinese people...you bet they did. I am a big fan of Japan and many of its cultural aspects, but lets not get carried away.

Cheers

[Daisy Burnett]

OK I finally have some firsthand knowledge to pass on about the GREAT WALL. Gutless is the first word that springs to mind. I am talking the petrol version here. For gods sake I was dragged of from the mark by a bloody garbage truck, and I dont think he was trying hard.
Noisy is the next word, engine and gear box noise are a constant companion. I also found that when in 4wd it came very close to stalling when trying to take of in first gear with the steering anywhere near the lock. You know that type of crabbing jump you get when in 4wd on bitumen. Like that but this was on grass. Felt like the front diff binding up a bit.
The interior while plain is functional and neat enough but felt a little boxy to me but that may be just me.
As for a tow vehicle, I dont think it has the guts for anything over 4.5m, Though rated to 1800kg braked, personally I dont think it would do it very well. Very tempted to buy a tow bar for my daughters Great Wall just to see the thing stand up on the back wheels when it trys to drive off pulling my 5.7m.
And for those who are saying why would I let my daughter buy one, well her husband thought it was good. I did not get asked and now I have to keep my mouth shut. I just hope she doesn't find this post.
In my opinion for a towing or serious 4wd vehicle I would stay clear.

Cheers
Daisy

[wrxhoon]

Mate you are comparing apples with bananas here.

You are comparing Tata global sales( in numbers) with Toyota AUSTRALIAN sales in Dollars..

Why not comprare Tata global sales with Toyota global sales .

For your information read this:
Toyota sales booming despite recalls

By North Asia correspondent Mark Willacy
Updated Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38pm AEST
Toyota's incentive programs are encouraging people to keep buying, with sales up 26 per cent year-on-year. (AFP: Roberto Schmidt)

• Related Story: Toyota faces record fine for 'hiding defect'
• Related Story: Toyota halts production in wake of recalls
• Related Story: Toyota claims 'inconsistencies' in runaway Prius story

Toyota says its global sales have surged by more than a quarter despite the carmaker having to recall millions of vehicles worldwide because of safety concerns.


That says their sales are up 26% and this is in April , car sales have improved since and I expect Toyotas have as well.
Rovers sales are up 31% ( from a very low base) to 13,700 ( that's all rover brand vehicles world wide !!! Do you know how many vehicles Toyota sell World wide??? About 70 times that and you say people have made choice in favour of Rover??
The article you put up for Toyota is for sales in $$$ not numbers , the Tata is for cars !!



This is how you compare but then again if you love your Disco so much you always look for excuses to justify it .


As for who lies , I have first hand experiance with Japs , like i said I use to import used cars from Japan and I could trust them , I would never trust buying anything from the Chinese unseen .
The example I gave you is in the previous post is real and I can go on and on ..

Everyone knows you can buy anything copied in China , they don't give a toss about copyrights there .

Anyway total sales are only part of the equation. The Toyo marketing machine is a thing to be reckoned with.

Do you think other companies DON'T market theiur products???
GM was the worlds biggest auto maker for 70+ Years ( until Toyo took over a couple years ago) , don't you think they marketed their product??

[ozscott]

I had had my fun on this thread mate....it goes around in circles otherwise (and you actually started the LR attack...I dont need to justify anything (I might have baited you by gratuitously noting my high miles and reliability.... You know nothing of my capacity to chose between brands and makes nor new 4wd's or old - my choice was for value, ability, reliability and character and I am very happy that over the years owning 2 I have got a very good mix of all of those attributes. You are mistaken if you think being a mechanic makes a person the last word on what is the best brand. The marketing machine that Toyota have in Australia is massive and has always been far more obvious than LR and most other brands. Good for them, but the fact is that they spend the big dollars because many people ARE, unfortunately, easily influenced...I am not suggesting that you are BTW before you take offence.

The good thing I suppose is that people reading this thread get some feedback about Great wall and they get a take from you that the Japs are to be trusted and the Chinese are not, from your experience and from my experience I dont think its that clear cut. I am sure that people often have their own experience reading this thread. We each have our own experiences and likes.

Cheers

[wrxhoon]

I might have baited you by gratuitously noting my high miles

If you think 300,000 ks is high , I have seen plenty of LC's with well over 500,000
But then again that could be the Toyo marketing!!!
.

You know nothing of my capacity to chose between brands and makes nor new 4wd's or old

You got this one right... But I do know the capacity of others that choose otherwise and respect their choice , I think you should do the same ....

reliability

Are we talking about Discos ??? They don't have any.....

You are mistaken if you think being a mechanic makes a person the last word on what is the best brand.

I never said that I have the last word did I? You are the one that brings out stats and use them to suit your argument, when I put up the real stats you don't like it!!!

The marketing machine that Toyota have in Australia is massive and has always been far more obvious than LR and most other brands.

Again you are wrong here, remember Toyota come to Australia ( and to the world for that matter) much later than LR

take from you that the Japs are to be trusted and the Chinese are not, from your experience and from my experience I dont think its that clear cut.

Don't take it from me, if you don't believe that the Chinese cheat you are living on another planet. Don't you know you can have anything made there with any name you want? If that is honest well I rest my case.

[ozscott]

If you think 300,000 ks is high , I have seen plenty of LC's with well over 500,000
But then again that could be the Toyo marketing!!!
.You got this one right... But I do know the capacity of others that choose otherwise and respect their choice , I think you should do the same ....

Are we talking about Discos ??? They don't have any.....





I never said that I have the last word did I? You are the one that brings out stats and use them to suit your argument, when I put up the real stats you don't like it!!!

Again you are wrong here, remember Toyota come to Australia ( and to the world for that matter) much later than LR

Don't take it from me, if you don't believe that the Chinese cheat you are living on another planet. Don't you know you can have anything made there with any name you want? If that is honest well I rest my case.

Likewise I have seen LR's with much higher k's than mine...but these are my vehicles so I stuck to them. I respect your choice of Toyo. I dont respect the idea that they are the only vehicle to get if you are serious about a good or the best 4wd. I am not going to argue about stats - they speak for themselves. Toyota did come to Australia later, but are you seriously suggesting that for the last 40 years say Toyota have not spent massively more than LR assaulting our TV's, newspapers and other media...thats inarguable.

You misunderstand me, intentionally or otherwise about your Chinese v Japanese comments (where you said "The Japs don't lie the Chinese well ... we all know ..... How many Chinese wheels have you seen around with well known brand names on them !!!!"). You tell a Chinese manufacturer what you want , the name you want on the product and he will do just that... I didnt say the Chinese dont lie or cheat. My problem was and remains with your comment about the Chinese doing so and the japs not so. You cannot ignore how Toyota (a Japanese company) have hidden defects that have killed people (the brake defects) and have tried to hide problems such as the very high incidence of cracking FJ Cruisers. I just dont know how you can get away from that. Yes I am aware of (independently and from your comments) that the Chinese will copy anything and Vietnam will do likewise, but I dont know that takes your argument anywhere (and remember back in the early part of last century...who was the only country in the world who could and did do that blatant copycatting - yep Japan). I know that might be difficult for you because you are very defensive of Toyota as a brand but to my mind that summarises the simple truth.

I think now that its clear you respect people's choice to buy other than Toyota including LR and my view is the same then this debate becomes inane given that it was started about Great Wall. See you on another thread.

Cheers

[gr hilly]

Where do you get your undies Glynn??
Or do you do commando??

commando when im wearing my kilt a bit cold yet though,now you know why no one will come out in my tinnie with me in summer.
cheers Glynn

[Steeler]

Hey Scott and Hoon

Now just to clarify something here,regardless of which is superior LR or Cruiser we can all agree that Pajero's are are supreme to both

[ozscott]

Hey Scott and Hoon

Now just to clarify something here,regardless of which is superior LR or Cruiser we can all agree that Pajero's are are supreme to both

I love it.

Mate I dont think that LR are the greatest vehicle. For a solid axle vehicle (up to and including series 2 disco and forever before for Range Rover, Defender/County and Discovery) they handled well on road, but clearly the IFS cruiser (comparing Disco 2 to the same year group Cruiser - 100 series) is better again on road in terms of ride comfort. The best I reckon from having driven them all is the Pajero on road with all round IFS and very nice balance, but of course that slow steering is not something everyone likes. But off road the LR shines. You cant beat a good live axle set up with long travel suspension off road.

I love the Pajero's also. I have driven them a number of times over the years and could easily live with one. I have also driven plenty of Landcruisers from 45 series onwards. I could live with a number of those models also quite happily. My beef is with anyone who asserts that there is really only one to own if your serious about the best...and unfortunately most of the people who assert that are Toyota drivers...dont know what it is or why but it seems to be the way. All 4wd brands have strengths and weaknesses. I just dont think you can go too far wrong with Cruiser, Patrol, LR, or Pajero in the larger 4wds. It comes down to personal preference. The LR for example will do some things better and for better value than a Cruiser and the converse is also true...yet some people just wont accept that. Strengths and weaknesses in every make.

Cheers mate

[caster226]

comment removed

[Steeler]

I am still trying to talk the minister for finance and war into a Disco but she is dead set on a Fairmont with the 6 speed box in it,don't know a lot about the six speed gearboxes in the Falcon/Fairmonts though.

Steeler

[gr hilly]

im one of them Landcruiser blokes hj60s i love them, ive done the impossible in the old girls i have had no exp with the fjs only diesel towed most other brands out of trouble done 30hr none stop trips often great fuel consumption crossed water over the bonnet never had a problem ever i have 2 hj60s an 83 5 speed done over 1million klms and my just run in at 330.000 1988 mod with 55ins of rubber on the road safety along with a heavy 2ton of heavy steal makes me get that feeling TOYOTA ps i have tried most other makes i just don't feel rite in any other vehicle.
cheers Hilly

[ozscott]

I am still trying to talk the minister for finance and war into a Disco but she is dead set on a Fairmont with the 6 speed box in it,don't know a lot about the six speed gearboxes in the Falcon/Fairmonts though.

Steeler

Which model are you looking at mate in the Disco?

The 6 speeds in the Fords as ZF from memory and nice shifting. I have driven an XR6 recently with one and it was very nice shifting and intelligent.

Cheers