Attn NPD Dam Permit Holders

[Feral]

It would appear the the PRFMA management committee are having a knee jerk reaction to the recent drowned canoeist on lake Wivanhoe.

I received this via email today.

It is proposed that the following paragraph be added to the PRFMA’s Deed of Agreement and that all current Permit holders be advised of the new safety requirements while accessing the Boating Access Scheme permit area.

All occupants on paddle craft must wear a suitable PFD.
All children under the age of 12 in a powered vessel must wear an appropriate sized PFD
All vessels must carry at all times the appropriate PFD’s for each person on board that vessel, together with oars or paddles and suitable Baling Equipment.**

** Sit On kayaks do nor require Bailing equipment


The proposed changes far exceed the safety requirements required for open water little own calm watered impoundments. If your a member of the PRFMA I urge you to front at the meeting on 6th of July and vote against the changes.

Why am I against it? - it means my 11 year old daughter will have to wear a life jacket in my 4.9m boat when it is anchored (which is only capable of 6km/h anyway) on smooth waters when she is not even required to wear one in the open ocean whilst under way. Great way for a kid to be comfortable and enjoy fishing.

[bondy99]

Nothing wrong with that,

The one thing I cannot understand and defies logic is this.

If a person cannot swim or is a very poor swimmer then why would you go in a canoe and go on the water to fish? If these people had worn life jackets then chances are both of them would have been alive instead of one.

They were both reported as being poor swimmers, even though they have been out on the water previously.

Should also never wear boots, I know I dont and also wear a BCV. I'm also a rescue diver.

Peter

[Luc]

All children under the age of 12 in a powered vessel must wear an appropriate sized PFD

I don't agree with this part of it and will be looking at having it removed.
Having said that, anyone who takes a canoe or kayack in open bodies of water should be wearing at least a PDF 2 or 3. PDF 1's are just too bulky on those crafts.

Luc

[tim barra master]

What is the cost of safety or a life
A couple of things to really be considered hear guys
Freshwater is usually very cool just 500mm below the surface which really inhibits a persons ability to swim to there full potential unlike saltwater which is a lot more BOYANT NOT TO MENTION A LOT WARMER
When was the last time you had to or tried to swim to a bank in freshwater fully or partly clothed even wearing sneakers or rubber type shoes
Its no easy task even for for a fit adult
I have been using an inflateable type 1 (the highest rating) vest for many years now and i never feel restricted by it. 1,2 or 3 makes little diference to freshwater all are ok What price is acceptable for something that could save your life one day
I have fallen from a kayak and got seperated from it as wind took it away very quickly, after some time and not much distance I had to deploy mine I am really glad I had it on.
Granted they are not perfect as someone hopefully the wearer has to activate them by pulling a rip cord or manually inflate them.
To me this can be a benefit as i can still swim a resonable distance with it on NOT INFLATED something i canot do with a foam type
I dont hope that a life vest will one day save a loved one from drowning
I hope none of my loved ones need to rely on a life vest in the first place for survivle
Its a bet i would definatelly have my money on though
I would be a mug to think that any child is ok without a life vest on freshwater
Accidents and misshaps do happen all the time
What price do you put on your childs life or an adults life for that matter
Or yours after your child has drowned knowing you should have done better
Even if your a perfect swimmer and your child goes overboard and if you know how to give CPR to a drownied victom would you be able to do this on a canoe or kayak I dont think its possible And how long would it take to get to a suitable bank to give CPR given every second is vitaly important

Those guys that went out on wivenhoe made some really bad decisions that weekend as we all know
And everyone wishes they had taken some very basic precausions
I for one am not looking forward to the coroners report or recomendations
Canoes Kayaks etc can be replaced pride can be restored life is a bit harder to replace
Lets learn from this and put some very basic safety precausions in place
LETS GET IN THERE
Before someone that sits in a office somewhere makes some even harder rules to cope with OR EVEN STARTS LOCKING GATES that have been very hard to open in the first place

PLEASE PUT COMMON SENCE IN FIRST PLACE BEFORE ROCKING THE BOAT GUYS

[davo74]

All children under the age of 12 in a powered vessel must wear an appropriate sized PFD

I don't agree with this part of it and will be looking at having it removed.
Having said that, anyone who takes a canoe or kayack in open bodies of water should be wearing at least a PDF 2 or 3. PDF 1's are just too bulky on those crafts.

Luc

i hope you don't have children. kids aren't allowed in my boat or kayaks unless they have life jackets on

[bondy99]

Tim Barra Master,

Yeah, I agree mate, I tried to keep my response simple, unfortunately there is the attitude, (it wont happen to me), "she'll be right" amongst the fraternity out there.

Especially when it comes to insurance i.e LIFE INSURANCE. Any isnurance company worth their salt would be looking for anyway out in not paying....Katching,...kathching, oh,,,you did not wear a life vest (or personal positive floatiion device), sorry section 12, para 4b part 1 of the Act says.......

Sorry guys and girls, just looking at it from a legal / Insurance perspective.

Peter

[Luc]

Davo 74, both my kids spend many hours in our canoe and have always worn lifejackets as well as me and my wife.

They didn't get on the water until they could swim.

I would change it to read kids under 6.

Luc

[PinHead]

there is nothing wrong with wearing an inflatable life jacket..wife and I wear them when kayaking on the dams..Do not even notice you have them on.

I'll bet most yakkers have not tried to get back on one in deep water (where they cannot touch bottom)...it is not as easy as it may seem.

I will congratulate PRFMA for being safety conscious...way too many tragedies have happened on the waterways recently.

[Fitzy]

I see this as a knee jerk, and IMHO possibly also an over-reaction.

There is legislation in place regarding the use of PFD's; when where how & who.
I would think recognising the current state legislation (as has been the case at Adsets Rd access until now) is the wisest move.

It's like fisheries regulations or traffic laws. Do you go for a localised change just to suit your own agenda or do you work towards getting the legislation changed across the board. I always prefer the latter.

Noting the recent happening on Wivenhoe (which while sad, was a disaster waiting to happen), current regs covering kayak/canoe safety, on a whole in Qld, seem to work. "Recommend" a suitable PFD be worn.

I'd advise PRFMA to take a few deep breaths before proceeding on emotions & then getting a solicitor to look over any proposed changes before setting it in concrete as policy.

If a Wivenhoe scenario is what is trying to be avoided, instead of concentrating on compulsory wearing of PFD's consider a system where if the wind forecast is over say 20 knots the access point is not to be used. The wind on Wivenhoe that day was horrendous. Work on the cause, not the symptom is what I'm saying.

Also take a good hard look at the rules regarding alcohol/drugs.

However if the PRFMA want to impose a "terms of entry" they can make it a rule that everyone wears their jocks on the outside, they can. If it's done democratically at a meeting, then so be it. And then if you want to access Adsett's Rd, you just have to abide by it or go around the other side of the lake & join the sailing club.

Cheers,

fitzy..

[TheRealAndy]

It would appear the the PRFMA management committee are having a knee jerk reaction to the recent drowned canoeist on lake Wivanhoe.

I received this via email today.

It is proposed that the following paragraph be added to the PRFMA’s Deed of Agreement and that all current Permit holders be advised of the new safety requirements while accessing the Boating Access Scheme permit area.

All occupants on paddle craft must wear a suitable PFD.
All children under the age of 12 in a powered vessel must wear an appropriate sized PFD
All vessels must carry at all times the appropriate PFD’s for each person on board that vessel, together with oars or paddles and suitable Baling Equipment.**

** Sit On kayaks do nor require Bailing equipment

The proposed changes far exceed the safety requirements required for open water little own calm watered impoundments. If your a member of the PRFMA I urge you to front at the meeting on 6th of July and vote against the changes.

Why am I against it? - it means my 11 year old daughter will have to wear a life jacket in my 4.9m boat when it is anchored (which is only capable of 6km/h anyway) on smooth waters when she is not even required to wear one in the open ocean whilst under way. Great way for a kid to be comfortable and enjoy fishing.

Read this:

http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/~/media/ms...t_under_12.pdf

[4x4frog]

Not sure if it is knee jerk or over-reaction or what.
I thought the same as above, thought they were mandatory anyway.

[gr hilly]

i recon i would fall overboard within 50 mtrs of the bank, i'm to top heavy but i can swim like a fish, i would use a life jacket for sure the inflatable jackets are great you hardly know your wearing them. but the most important thing is it is much easier to pull someone out the water if they are in a jacket,and they are normally breathing.
Hilly

[Feral]

"the realandy" I respectfully suggest you have a closer look at the rules.
Curerently 99% of boats on NPD are not registered. They are electric, paddle, peddle, sail or oar powered. There fore the only safety requirements are for a light after dark. They need no other safety equipment. (Thats not to say most dont have it, its just not required)

Under MSQ laws Children do not have to wear life jackets in unregistered boats, nor boats over 4.8m. My dam boat is both.

The PRFMA passed the motion, and it will be a requirement of the new deeds and strongly recommended for those with current deeds (You have to sign a legal contract called a deed to get on to NPD, it is current until May next year).


I'm in no way against reasonable consideration of safety improvements. However to bring in mandatory safety requirements with no consultation with experts, those the changes will affect, or those that actually write the laws concerned is not the right way.

If the PRFMA had said look we think there is a problem, talked with MSQ, called a meeting of permit holders, consulted with boating experts, maybe even called on the local member to lobby to change the rules for everybody, I'd have been behind them 100%. They Didn't.

[TheRealAndy]

"the realandy" I respectfully suggest you have a closer look at the rules.
Curerently 99% of boats on NPD are not registered. They are electric, paddle, peddle, sail or oar powered. There fore the only safety requirements are for a light after dark. They need no other safety equipment. (Thats not to say most dont have it, its just not required)

Under MSQ laws Children do not have to wear life jackets in unregistered boats, nor boats over 4.8m. My dam boat is both.

The PRFMA passed the motion, and it will be a requirement of the new deeds and strongly recommended for those with current deeds (You have to sign a legal contract called a deed to get on to NPD, it is current until May next year).


I'm in no way against reasonable consideration of safety improvements. However to bring in mandatory safety requirements with no consultation with experts, those the changes will affect, or those that actually write the laws concerned is not the right way.

If the PRFMA had said look we think there is a problem, talked with MSQ, called a meeting of permit holders, consulted with boating experts, maybe even called on the local member to lobby to change the rules for everybody, I'd have been behind them 100%. They Didn't.

Actually, the legislation does not discriminate between registered or unregistered boats. In fact, it explicitly states this. You need to comply with all safety legislation for smooth waters.

Beside the point really. I think its a good decision. You might think it one day too when it saves the life of a child.

If you ask me personally, i would ban inflatable life jackets too. They don't inflate themselves, just when you might need them most. Yachting Australia has a law that prevents the use of inflatable life vest in competition.

[stufishing]

Yachting Australia has a law that prevents the use of inflatable life vest in competition.

I don't believe this statement is correct. I compete regularly with and against people with inflatable life jackets