Etec - thumbs up

[Huey]

do you tell your customers that with oil costs the true running costs over a 3 year period is the same across all engine types? if not worse if the engine racks up big hours

marketing bs at all lvls this is why etec cops the hammering when its mentioned, but i guess the truth in marketing has never been there so we shouldnt complain

Hi, for the average user with say an I-3 E-TEC, that is lucky to do 50/year, the oil cost would be about $100 a year even if he buys from someone who choose to overcharge in the oil. If bought in bulk that cost would be less.

Yes all companies have there own marketting spin and at the end of the day it is upto you want you choose to buy.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Huey]

300 hr service crap
leg bolts need to be undone every 100 hrs to avoid seisure
also they got crap injectors
i had 150 went god for the first 500 hrs but was thirsty
then 2 injectors went got repaired under warringy
next trip another injector went
so i got rid off it now a proud owner off a honda
cheaper to run no oils costs
and very satisified

pete

Hi, sorry to hear you did not like your 150HP and I wish you well with your new outboard, but we have plenty of E-TEC that run in salt water that at the 3 year service the leg bolts are fine, but you are missing the point, if you want to service an E-TEC every 6 months that is upto you, but you do not have to to get warranty and the fact it less than 5% of E-TEC will do anything like 300 hours in 3 years.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Noelm]

AH, good to see another e-tec thread go for pages and pages, still never stops amazing me why this is so, e-tec verses every other motor in the world.

[ozscott]

My general take on the ETEC, just following up from Noelm' comment, is that there are some owners who are impressed with them, but some that are certainly not and generally there is a distrust of this motor amongst those of us who talk to people about them (owners etc) at the ramp and elsewhere and it really has yet to prove itself to be accepted like the other major brands and types. The injector problems didnt do them any favours I suppose.

Personally I just cant see them getting the following of say Yamaha 4 stroke or Optimax for example, but if they do it will be after years of development and being out there for more than a decade...perhaps 2 decades (and that assumes they keep pouring money into them and do very well in reliability....certainly the advertising campaign was massive, so as long as the continued development and back up goes with it).

Cheers

[Huey]

Hi, I agree they do tend to drag on and I guess I can be blamed for that, but according to the latest industry figures in the 40HP and up clean market BRP have 34% share Oz wide and in some states it is better than that so there must be at least one or two happy campers.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Huey]

Hey Huey if you are still here are you the bloke on the Etec Owners forum? http://www.etecownersgroup.com in the states, same name aka Craig and same opinion of etecs.

I agree that all motors will have problems and some manufacturers don't stand by their product but Etecs and BRP do have a bad reputation for good reason.

Anyone travelling across the top would have to be very game to buy an etec if going to remote places as no one has the diagnostic gear to fix? them.

There are dealers on the East Coast, Darwin (1) and maybe somewhere up the West Coast but hey it's a long way to go if an injector shits itself.

Now a Yammie, Suzuki or Honda etc no probs.

Hi, yes that is me and i was asked by Joe, the guy who started the website to become a moderator on it and I try my best. IMO I think it is a good site becuase they are actual users, not a mates boat people, and yes we see issues all around the world and there are some very smart people on there that can sometimes help. I do agree and if going into a remote area all clean tech engines can be more prone to problems and with the equipment to test and repair it will be a problem and yes the injectors E-TEC use are not like automotive injectors. In my opinion there is still alot to be said for the basic carby 2-Stroke in these areas, because they are very easy to fix and if you get a bad dose of fuel no injectors, electic fuel pumps, VSR etc to block and you can easily clean a carby by the side of the river.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Noelm]

even though these things drag on for ages, if you sift through the crap, there is a lot of good info to be had (on any brand) I reckon some to and fro is a great thing, especially from guys who know their stuff (in this case Huey and Spaniard King) and even some "FRIENDY" banter between members about boats and motors and stuff is good fun, as long as it all stays civil then I reckon bring it on! and I guess to a point what it all reinforces is, ALL motors are good, all cost a bucket load of cash, and all can give you grief at some time or another.

[Flex]

Alot of E-tec misconceptions come from their clever marketing. I personally think E-tecs marketing campaign has made itself a victim in certain circles

When it first came out they made the technology sounds very secretive and pretended it was "new" and "space age" so to speak.

Hence alot of people think an etec is some mystical motor which creates alot of for and against and alot of misinformed people out there.

Why doesn't optimax or Yamaha's HPDI get the same attention as etec? its basically the same principal.

I wish a few other companies would bring out small engine DI 2 strokes too, I think there is a real market for it.
Im a big fan of 2 strokes on tinny's.Specially ones that sit in a shed for a year and not be used. Your average bloke with a tinny doesn't want to get a motor serviced every 6 months. Alot of us on here are hardcore fishoes so regular use isn't an issue. But for general population Im a big fan of old 2 strokes or etecs on your average tinny.Alot less stress involved(provided you have access to dealer when you do need it)

For large outboards its purely who is your best local dealer for best outboard choice...

[ozscott]

Learn something new every day....I didnt know they can run absent of oil and have pistons that are allegedly several times stronger than standard forged pistons...

[Boblee]

Yep apparently can run without oil and water for limited periods but at reduced RPM of course.

Think Huey summed it up perfectly with this

I do agree and if going into a remote area all clean tech engines can be more prone to problems and with the equipment to test and repair it will be a problem and yes the injectors E-TEC use are not like automotive injectors. In my opinion there is still alot to be said for the basic carby 2-Stroke in these areas, because they are very easy to fix and if you get a bad dose of fuel no injectors, electic fuel pumps, VSR etc to block and you can easily clean a carby by the side of the river.

For me after a motor not running right from day one until over 400 hrs and over three years until I absolutely spat the dummy to get BRP to do what they should have done after the first few visits I don't think I could trust them or the motor again.

In fact to even partly compensate me they should have replaced the complete motor not just the power head.

We buy a motor to use safely on the water not travel backwards and forwards to the dealer to sit in their yard or to potter about in well populated areas in case it fails and then hope their is a dealer with the gear to diagnose it nearby.

Will be using the motor (with a new powerhead) this year for a trip along the Kimberly coast but without the backup of sails and a trusty 1999 Honda on the fishing dinghy wouldn't even consider it.

Already had the thermostat replaced after 66 hr's but if it makes it a perfect record of destroying every years winter trip it will be pulled from the water and carted home with a big sign on it for the 3000 km journey.


To their credit at low revs anyway they are absolute fuel and oil misers and when running are as good as any motor on the market but BRP need to make their backup at least half as good as the spin they put into their marketing.

The theory is right but to achieve it they have made it too delicate or fragile, where even changing a prop can make it run like a chaffcutter because the computor can't compute? and this is probably true of all the brands trying to achieve maximum clean fuel burning.

To be fair my 50hp is on a 26' Macgregor and it does have hugely varying loads but that is the motor recommended and the original fault?? was there under all conditions.

[cormorant]

5 hours without oil - my guess - part true part marketing.

well they only run air through the crankcase not a fuel and oil mix like a normal 2 stroke. With only air in their the oil is not washed off the bearings and components so they retain a surface film.

Now the 5 hour claim

Hmm well if the oil out light comes up ( from sensor on the oil tank) you still have a standard let us say 2m oil line from the remote oil tank. That holds XX ml of oil and at low revs they use very little oil. That explains part of the marketing. All companies do themselves a injustice when they give these details to a marketing department and the full story is not told - but it impresses the punter and gives the dealers a point of difference to jabber about. . Even the oil on board without the oil line included is a fair bit of oil at a very very low ratio. I would be surprised if a motor who has it's oil manifold completely removed would last claimed hours but it is under very litte stress at low revs and new oild are pretty good - I might be wrong.


I thought the claim was 1 hour years ago and not sure when it changed to "up to 5 hours"


If it was a genuine claim they should say in the warranty that a oil based failure is impossible if correct oil is used as the failsafe stops it and should be covered for the life of the motor. That is - BRP will replace any motor that ever has a bearing failure , heat induced failure ( computer and sensors should stop this) or bore scoring due to lack of oil. Guess water , mist ingestion would be the reason for failure .


All cars and outboards have used special metal alloys and forging processes with later surface treatments. To run lean , use a small metal mass , remove heat from the combustion chamber you need more specialised metals. Be it boron filled valves , ceramic coatings etc.

Good on BRP for using newer material , newer oils etc. All the other brands and dealers had a single focus point to say they were crap , untested etc and if you throw enough mud some will stick especially with OMC going broke and leaving a lot of unhappy dealers and clients.

Water through injectors may cause a minor issue but when it sits in them after the motor stops is when there is big issues in regards to damage to the injectors themselves. Even crap fuel ( no dirty) will go through but leaving it standing causes issues with deposits and corrosion. Lack of regular use kills a lot of mechanical things so fuel stabilisers may be well worth it for occasional users.

I think everyone would feel better with 9 year or 1500hr warranty.

[Huey]

Hi Guys, the EMM will allow the engine to run upto 5 hours with no oil at low RPM because unlike dirty 2-Strokes there is nothing but fresh air coming in the front of the engine so the oil that is around the crankshaft, big ends, conrods etc does not get washed away like in a carby engine. Also needle roller bearings at low RPM, which is what the EMM limits the engine to, running with no oil is not a problem. I have been lucky enough to go the BRP factory where these are made and seen what is behind these engines and also to the Miami boatshow a few years ago and BRP had a 3.3L engine idling in a test tank for the duration of the boatshow WITHOUT the oil line connected and it was fine evne running for 9 hours a day and the show went for 5 days. Basically they were highlighting this fact and do not think for a minute that the engine would survive without oil under any great load or high RPM, but again that is why the EMM has in built safe guards against running both with water and oil.

Bob, yes you hit the nail on the head, any of these hulls I have seen are very unquie and a guy from NZ I helped out the other day, getting the best prop from his local dealer (that was unaware of this prop)- he has said it has transformed his displacement hull. Good to see you are now as should of been and I can only talk from our personall experience with any company we have dealt with, and BRP have looked after us and our customers if we just tell them to make it happen.

There is alot of cool info out there if you want to learn more and the site that was talked about earlier is a great first step and then even go to Kens site where you will see alot of history on Evinrude / Johnsons.

Cheers,

Huey.

[Boblee]

Whatever they do with the oil it works as they use very small amounts anyway and as Cormorant says whats in the lines would last way more than five hours.

Someone mentioned using oil in the fuel, well they use a hell of a lot less than a four stroke maintained correctly, I have used under two containers of their special oil in over 500 hrs and some of that was wasted while trying to get them (BRP) to fix a cracked tank under warranty.

Huey

I have had absolutely no trouble with dealers in Vic, QLD or NT the trouble appears to be BRP themselves not wanting to acknowledge problems, you being in Sydney and close in more ways than one to HQ would probably not be aware of this.

I would love to know what was actually wrong with my original motor as it could help the many others with similar problems but that didn't seem to be a priority.

As for the prop, I am also going to use a power thruster, mainly for economic reasons not so much for cost but to utilise the fuel I can carry better as it's a long way between stops.

I still haven't found out why it was suggested by one dealer that the WOT rpm should be below 5000 against all other wisdom, yet doing as he stated certainly made the motor run much better without the "miss", will wait and see how it runs with the thruster but still have the original hydrus prop anyway.

[ozscott]

Whats the max RPM without oil Huey?

Cheers

[tednted]

Originally Posted by Spaniard_King
Huey,

I choose to service all brands, Like yourself no doubt. Like you I too have many years in the trade and have over 15 years experience in an OMC dealership(Including several years on ficht engines).

I will take up your comments with the 3 local BRP dealers on cleaning injectors as I would like to know the proceedure myself.

You can throw all the mud you like but you and I both know that any engine can go 3 years or 300 hrs without servicing its what happens down the track that matters

Hi, I am not the one throwing mud with the eye roll faces etc, but I am am justing quoting what is in the manufacturers hand book and in warranty, if it is not done as per the book, what do they say if somebody needs warranty? I know for a fact that the brand of 4-Stroke that we sell (and yes we too do service all brands) if it is not documented the services done as per the book, warranty can be a pain and the facts are with this 3 year / 300 hour thing, there is that no other brand except Evinrude that will offer warranty on a new engine and still let an owner go three years without a dealer service-that is FACT. As for the wink can you show me a 90HP 4-Stroke outboard that is 30 years old and until we see one( and an E-TEC or DI 2-Stroke for that matter the jury is still out), but at least mechanically E-TEC is based on mechanical components that have been around many many years in the marine industry in big HP outboards.

Yes find out about E-TEC because quite different from FICHT and the DI that OMC/BRP made. If you would like to learn more you would need to have diagonostic software but if you do and know how to use it I do not have a problem running you thru the procedure to not only test with what this software can do but how you dismantle the injector and what we do to clean them with, in most cases, very good results.

I think I will bow out now mate and if you want send me a PM if I can be of help and maybe if you have OMC experience you can start looking after some of the E-TEC owners in SE QLD probably better than the BRP dealers do-but that is upto you.

Cheers,

Huey.

Good thread This,
& good onya Huey for this genorous offer !! Patriculary after being accused of mud slinging !! I read back through this ,& I could'nt see where Huey through the mud:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
cheers AL