Waterpolice on nightshift now

[PinHead]

why the paranoia about all round lights? Just make sure you have a light on and if someone approaches then shine a torch at them.

[ssab1]

Hey Andy. That's the link I put up at the beginning of the thread and they say the all round light can be obstructed by 6 degrees.

Now...(not directed to you Andy)....Does this mean if the light is about 1m above nav lights and the nav lights are mounted around gunwale height and the all round is about 1m above the nav. lights and if you take into account the nav. lights are about 600mm (.6m) above the floor so that would make the average all round light about 1.6 metres above the floor.
Now for me I'm short. About 1.53m to the base of the noggin and about 1.53m across the @rse but that's another story...
So if I'm 1.53 to the base of the neck then the all round light is obstructed only by my noggin.
I have a fat head so that's about 180mm across.
Now if the all round light is 2m from my noggin then the angle that the all round light is obstructed by is 5.15 degrees.
If the all round light was 1.75m from my noggin then the angle of obstruction is 5.88 degrees.
So in this case, and for my height, if my all round light is 1.6m or more above deck height (and the all round light is over 1m above my nav. lights) and the all round light is more then 1.75m away from me are the lights legal on my tinny? According to the math and the link then they should be right...shouldn't they??
(I'm starting to sound like a greeny I reckon. If you can't persuade them with facts then baffle them with bull$hit...well in this case mostly facts but... :rolleyes

Now. If the single all round light was deemed illegal and I put a stern light on then that'll have to be illegal too on most of the boats I see fitted with them as the outboard would obstruct them to one side.
Has anybody been been booked for that??
Has anybody been booked for only having an all round light on whilst drifting??

thanks Finga for putting it in laymans terms, we all know the regs but to abide by them as required by a overzealous copper is a different story, Im fine my light is now mounted at a height of 1900mm to comply with all the requirements, simply hopeing that by readingy this thread other poor souls dont leave them selves open to a $200 fine. Or is it IM right stuff you jack , 90% of boats out there are doubtful if your met the wrong cop. cheers alex. ps Im right hope everybody else is compliant or has a spare $200 for Ms Bligh. OUT

[finga]

thanks Finga for putting it in laymans terms, we all know the regs but to abide by them as required by a overzealous copper is a different story, Im fine my light is now mounted at a height of 1900mm to comply with all the requirements, simply hopeing that by readingy this thread other poor souls dont leave them selves open to a $200 fine. Or is it IM right stuff you jack , 90% of boats out there are doubtful if your met the wrong cop. cheers alex. ps Im right hope everybody else is compliant or has a spare $200 for Ms Bligh. OUT

Your all round white light might be right but what about your red and green nav. lights??
Do they run parallel to the keel of the boat and the rest of the requirements??
What about the wiring?? What code has it been wired too?? Voltage drop OK??
The vast majority of people would not know there was a code for wiring of boats let alone know what it is and what it entails.

If they're gunna get ya they're gunna find something wrong.

[Razgo-]

Theirs are orange flashing?????????

Mike

Ok i got the footage today. wasn't easy either but it is plain as day.

Also note pretty much on the last frame the bright white light flash. at distance thats what you see is white flashing light. At night? dunno, maybe they are orange at night?



russ

[bdaearth]

So I fish with a mate thats 2m tall and stands on the front cast deck I will need a 2100-2200mm high white light ???? where the hell am I going to get that????

[TheRealAndy]

Hey Andy. That's the link I put up at the beginning of the thread and they say the all round light can be obstructed by 6 degrees.

Now...(not directed to you Andy)....Does this mean if the light is about 1m above nav lights and the nav lights are mounted around gunwale height and the all round is about 1m above the nav. lights and if you take into account the nav. lights are about 600mm (.6m) above the floor so that would make the average all round light about 1.6 metres above the floor.
Now for me I'm short. About 1.53m to the base of the noggin and about 1.53m across the @rse but that's another story...
So if I'm 1.53 to the base of the neck then the all round light is obstructed only by the back of my my noggin as the all round light cannot shine in my eyes.
I have a fat head so that's about 180mm across.
Now if the all round light is 2m from my noggin then the angle that the all round light is obstructed by is 5.15 degrees.
If the all round light was 1.75m from my noggin then the angle of obstruction is 5.88 degrees.
So in this case, and for my height, if my all round light is 1.6m or more above deck height (and the all round light is over 1m above my nav. lights) and the all round light is more then 1.75m away from me are the lights legal on my boat? According to the math and the link then they should be right...shouldn't they??
(I'm starting to sound like a greeny I reckon. If you can't persuade them with facts then baffle them with bull$hit...well in this case mostly facts but... :rolleyes

Now. If the single all round light was deemed illegal and I put a stern light on then that'll have to be illegal too on most of the boats I see fitted with them as the outboard would obstruct them to one side.
Has anybody been been booked for that??
Has anybody been booked for only having an all round light on whilst drifting??

It's all nearly as bad as a mate of mine who was pulled up and booked because the flashing orange light on the rear of his dropdeck trailer was an orange strobe and not a rotating beacon.
Apparently strobe type lights are not allowed according to the coppers.
Matey was not game to point to the roof of the cop car and ask the obvious question.

Maaaatttteeee... Did you do the maths and is it correct??? I have had a couple of glasses of white, just submitted the final crap from the 08/09 tax and fbt year!! Got a nice red there ready to pour now too!

Seriously, you will always get a cop who is a dick or has had a bad day. If you feel you have been hard done by, research your fine and try your luck in court. Legislation is like contracts, not worth a pinch of shit unless tested in court. However, legislation like this tends to be based on common sense in most cases. Use my previous example of a car. Put a plate across your brake lights and see if you get away with it.. You would be an idiot for doing so. I dont know the details of vehicle legislation but I would guess the same common sense applies.

BUT. For Fooks Sake, Its your life when you are on the water. Would you drive your car down a dark road at night with your lights off?? Whats the difference between that and being on the water? Personally I dont give a f**k about slamming into you on a dark night in the bay because you have your lights off, but I care about me. I dont want to die because I cant see you.

The law is there for a good reason. Just abide by it and stop whining.

[purnong]

Here you go!

I like it, Simple and effective

[White Pointer]

Hope you have had a lawyer go through the regs with you and checked your boat theres a mile of regs out there that until recently I didnt know of and Ive been boating for 40+ years. cheers alex

G'day,

Good points made.

I have a fairly fresh QLD license and a pretty new QLD build boat so compliance of me and the boat was pretty easy. But the catch limits and sizes is too much to memorise. It's worse than memorising the rules of golf.

Recreation is hard work these days!

Regards,

White Pointer

[White Pointer]

Hey Andy. That's the link I put up at the beginning of the thread and they say the all round light can be obstructed by 6 degrees.

Now...(not directed to you Andy)....Does this mean if the light is about 1m above nav lights and the nav lights are mounted around gunwale height and the all round is about 1m above the nav. lights and if you take into account the nav. lights are about 600mm (.6m) above the floor so that would make the average all round light about 1.6 metres above the floor.
Now for me I'm short. About 1.53m to the base of the noggin and about 1.53m across the @rse but that's another story...
So if I'm 1.53 to the base of the neck then the all round light is obstructed only by the back of my my noggin as the all round light cannot shine in my eyes.
I have a fat head so that's about 180mm across.
Now if the all round light is 2m from my noggin then the angle that the all round light is obstructed by is 5.15 degrees.
If the all round light was 1.75m from my noggin then the angle of obstruction is 5.88 degrees.
So in this case, and for my height, if my all round light is 1.6m or more above deck height (and the all round light is over 1m above my nav. lights) and the all round light is more then 1.75m away from me are the lights legal on my boat? According to the math and the link then they should be right...shouldn't they??
(I'm starting to sound like a greeny I reckon. If you can't persuade them with facts then baffle them with bull$hit...well in this case mostly facts but... :rolleyes

Now. If the single all round light was deemed illegal and I put a stern light on then that'll have to be illegal too on most of the boats I see fitted with them as the outboard would obstruct them to one side.
Has anybody been been booked for that??
Has anybody been booked for only having an all round light on whilst drifting??

It's all nearly as bad as a mate of mine who was pulled up and booked because the flashing orange light on the rear of his dropdeck trailer was an orange strobe and not a rotating beacon.
Apparently strobe type lights are not allowed according to the coppers.
Matey was not game to point to the roof of the cop car and ask the obvious question.

G'day,

I think you're rabbiting. The 6 degrees just copes with the obstruction of a rod in a rod holder or an antenna. It is a 1.6% loss in all round visibility. Blink and you will miss it.

Regards,

White Pointer

[finga]

Not rabbiting just making a point about legalities.

If they want to find something wrong they will.
I bet there are problems with your lights White Pointer even if the boat is very newish.
Have a gander in any boat yard. Many boats would have their all round light incorrectly positioned and/or installed (especially if the boat is of open design). If they seem to be correctly positioned sitting in the yard chuck a 2m person in and see (as given in the example above)??

Down the bottom is a brand new BlueFin at a boat show.
Illegal on 2 points. Is the all round white lights 1m above nav lights and is there 360 degree viewing of all round white light?? No.

There would be many others in the same boat when the plug in light poles are fitted.

Here's Offshore Marine Masters site. Most boats shown have the nav. lights illegally fitted. You can obstruct them when/if you walk/stand next to them on the walk around cabin.
http://www.offshoremarinemaster.com.au/

Here's a Fisher boat.
Is the all round 1m above the nav. lights??
http://www.fisherboats.com.au/boats-...nd-ms-800.html
The list could go on and on.

I mean who's to say the light shown in Kero's example is as close as practical to the centreline of the boat??
If the copper says no then $200 thanks.
To most of us (including me) that's a dandy job to make the light as high as possible and to be as least obtrusive as possible for the occupants of the boat.

In my opinion getting booked because your all round light is obstructed if/when you stand up is getting carried away a bit from the coppers point of view.

My all round white light in the tinny is 1.2m above the nav lights but it could be obstructed by me IF I stand up.
I never stand up in the boat unless I really have to because I have no sense of balance any more.
I personally and not worried as I always, always carry a spotlight to shine onto boats if they come within cooee of me. (That's a requirement to carry a signalling device ie torch between sunset and sunrise)
I'm more worried about not seeing all round lights due to background lights then failing to see them at all because they're behind some ones head. Especially in The Bay.
I have trouble seeing beacons against the city lights.

At least if the all round light is hiding behind a head there is a chance of seeing it as the person is always moving. Not so with background lights.

Booking someone because their all round light is hidden by a head seems trivial to me when there are so many reports of boats with no lights at all in high traffic areas of SE Queensland who cause greater problems. And the problem has been obvious and around for years.

If they were fair-dinkum about safety they would giving directives to all boat yards and all manufacturers to pull their socks up instead of getting people on the water and slapping a $200 fine on them.
Ever seen the water Police giving people advice at the boat ramp about illegal lights??

The water police should be getting the priorities right. Get lights on the boats full stop before starting on technicalities such as all round at least a metre above nav. lights and all round hidden by a bobbing head.
I wished I could find a clear picture of the Police rubber ducky's to see if they're correct.
I have no problems with the rules. I just wished they were enforced across the board, checks done more often and manufacturers were doing the right thing in regards to the legalities.
And my biggest gripe is about consistency. If there is consistency in ruling of the rules then everyone knows where they stand. And that includes manufacturers.

Andy...mate, goodo on the wine. Enjoy another one or two tonight. It's Friday.

[Razgo-]

Scott, I don't think they can force manufacturers to conform to legal requirements because boats are classed as leisure craft. Unlike cars where they do have to conform. i could be wrong though but i just remember reading somwhere about why the rules are different for leisure craft.


I think all these people who are fined could probably easily challenge it in court and not have to pay the fine. most magistrates are not boat literate either.

I mean look at the rules for drink driving wither regards to cars as opposed to boats.

I could get fined by being drunk at home or a part because i have my car keys on me.

Yet i could be out on a 50 foot house boat drunk as a skunk and no problems there at all by the police.

I would like to see better lit markers! that second one heading out of the boat passage toward many i can never see!


russ