Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

[ozscott]

Scott,
I can assure you from owning a 200TTD it will eat the Disco towing my 2.5 boat in any hill.

Mate - unless you have been drag racing them on a hill against each other or have driven the new 3.0ttd Im not sure how you can say that. Power and torque are very close and the Disco always had excellent (and 6 speed) gearing. As Ali G would say - keepn it real.

As for re-sale the yota has that (although now that toyotas now accelerate when you dont want them to and dont brake when you do that might change)...but no on resale the Toyotas have always been good. Having said that I bought my LR Disco 02 7.5 years ago at $42k on the road in manual V8 form and its now worth about $12k, so that isnt too bad either.

Cheers

[wrxhoon]

Mate - unless you have been drag racing them on a hill against each other or have driven the new 3.0ttd Im not sure how you can say that. Power and torque are very close and the Disco always had excellent (and 6 speed) gearing. As Ali G would say - keepn it real.

As for re-sale the yota has that (although now that toyotas now accelerate when you dont want them to and dont brake when you do that might change)...but no on resale the Toyotas have always been good. Having said that I bought my LR Disco 02 7.5 years ago at $42k on the road in manual V8 form and its now worth about $12k, so that isnt too bad either.

Cheers

I haven't driven the 3.0 lt Disco but I have driven the 3.6Lt Rangie and the big Toyo has it on this as well .
I don't know about Toyos not braking , they recalled the Hybrids , I don't have any probs wiht my LC, never had and I never had any with any of my previous LC'"s either.
To be fair you bought used ( right?) you can't compare used to new as far as depreciation goes . It remains to be seen what the 200 will be, I can only go on my past experience mate.
I don't know how you say the 3.0 Disco will go better than the 200TTD?
Here are the fascts on specs:

Disco 3.0 180KW at 4000 rpm , Torque 600 NM at 2000

LC 4.5 TTD 195 KW at 3400 , Torque 650 NM at 1600 RPM

Clearly the LC has it on The disco as it has more Torque , almost 10% more and at much lower RPM , again almost 10% more power at much lower rpm again .
I would think the weight of the 2 trucks is much the same .

Don't take my word for it , Toyo sold about 12000 LC's in the last 12 months , most of them TTDs and held backl by the lack of supply . Its more than 2 years since the 200 was released and guess what there is a waiting on the TTDS of about 4-8 weeks depending on the model you want .I had to wait 4 months for mine in 2008 , ordered about 5 months after the release.
Another good indicator of the quility of the LC's re-sale , even my 911 TTD is not any better in holding its value .
Surely you don't think all these people that buy them both new and used are stupid ??

I will agree with the fact that they are far to expensive though and they are getting dearer still. Toyota are taking advantage of the fact that they don't have a good competitor and I would do the same in my business if I had that luxury .

When I test drove the RR , i did like the truck but the 2 reasons I didnt buy it were , price ( much dearer than the Toyo) and re-sale , you losse 50% in 2 -3 years. This is another reason ( resale) I bought a VX and not a sahara .

[chisel]

New patrol is out in the middle east now.
Independent suspension all round. Honking great V8 petrol - no word of a diesel yet.
Looks a bit like a 200. Has all the high tech wizbang stuff now too.

I wonder what Nissan Australia will do with it. eg. what sort of diesel we'll get.

[FNQCairns]

New patrol is out in the middle east now.
Independent suspension all round. Honking great V8 petrol - no word of a diesel yet.
Looks a bit like a 200. Has all the high tech wizbang stuff now too.

I wonder what Nissan Australia will do with it. eg. what sort of diesel we'll get.

Ahhhh! the dead end of en era! nothing more than a high performance soft roader in comparison

Secondhand TD4.2 GUs are going to go up in price the moment that patrol hits our shore.

cheers fnq

[ozscott]

No I bought it brand new mate $42 on the road in late 02 (it was often assumed back then, wrongly that the D2 was very expsensive - in 5 seat manual form it wasnt).

I know that toyota are selling heaps, but thats always the case.

As for the Twin Turbo specs are never the whole story - my bet is that there wont be much in it either way.

Mate we could have some fun all day, as we did in a previous thread about LR and Toyota but the fact is that we will never agree. In the 100 series the 2.7TD was clearly a better engine to tow with compared to anything Toyota had. Toyota have clawed back, but to say that it would eat the Twin Turbo 3.0 is just not right, and so it was corrected so that others (I really couldnt care less) who read this thread dont take your comments as gospel. Gearing is also a big thing and the Disco boxes have come up before for praise because of the excellent gearing and quick shifts and it will count when towing.

Cheers

[ozscott]

Ahhhh! the dead end of en era! nothing more than a high performance soft roader in comparison

Secondhand TD4.2 GUs are going to go up in price the moment that patrol hits our shore.

cheers fnq

Great truck mate - and yep im with you on that.

Cheers

[ozscott]

I don't know about Toyos not braking , they recalled the Hybrids , I don't have any probs wiht my LC, never had and I never had any with any of my previous LC'"s .

mate - I was just having some sport. Toyota drivers generally like telling people how reliable their cars are, so when they put their rides up to such lofty heights its a long way down...and the 9million vehicles just recalled (after a lot of pressure to do so - external pressure) has certainly done that.

Cheers

PS. On a different issue it has been a few years now where Honda have had the quality top spot.

[rockfisho]

HI all,

I see alot of people doing comparisons between their engines in their cars looking at the power and torque developed by the engine, and using these to base conclusions on. In actual fact there are few more things that need to be looked at. Firstly and foremostly is the torque curve on the engine. I tend to wonder how a lot of the small displacement engine torque curves look when under half throttle, compared to the large toyota engines (of equivalent power at high throttle). similarly is the shape of the torque curve, I certainly prefer flattness of a torque curve.
Ive found my HZ can effortlessly idle (1200 revs) up a mountain in low second with barely any throttle.

Now this brings me onto my second point. The way toyota engines are designed. Im certain that toyota is capable of getting a huge amount of power out of these engines, (eg look at hte 1fz-fe, the arabs can extract 1000hps by turboing them).
THey are detuned out of the factory, and the turbos have been designed to reduce boost at higher revs. The aim being reliability. I havent heard of any 3.oL Patrol engines cracking 600 thousand, but i sure have heard of many tojos.

Just my opinions, after some engineering investigation.

Another point, I was at work the other day doing some engine speccing, the cat diesels they use for the machinery on the gas fields arent little tiny diesels (say 3L) with small displacements but 5 turbos thrown on, to get the necessary power and torque running at high speed. No, they are 10L Cat NA diesels running at 2000rpms day in day out. (obviously horses for courses, but the question is still there as you could gear a small engine down and probalby get better economy. Reliability? i doubt there would even be competition.)

Overall my point is, power and torque on paper never ever tell the full story

Ta

[ozscott]

You make good points Rockfiso - and I also was of the view that the smaller TD's would mean less reliability, but LR have shown that their smaller (not small as such) displacement TDs are very reliable. Its all about the quality and engineering of the block and heads. Sheer size isnt necessarily a good guide anymore like it was 20 years ago. But again, I appreciate your points.

Cheers

[Lovey80]

This has become an interesting thread. It is good to hear that Nissan are bringing out new gear. Lets just hope that it comes out with a really good larger displacement turbo diesel at a significant discount to the Landcruiser. Maybe if a large prtion of market share is taken away from toyota the prices may come down from lal la land levels.

The rack is certainly out of the question, I need it to tow a larger boat as far as 1770 north and yamba south and a smaller boat/camper to places like the cape/gulf.

My requirements are niether here nor there for this thread though....

So in reality, any real competitors to the Cruiser will probably be only that in specs of the vehicles as Australia has shown that it is prepared to pay 80k for a wagon....?????

Cheers

Chris

[TimiBoy]

Well, I have a TD200 Cruiser, and I reckon the folks who bag 'em out are jealous. It's amazing. If you can, you should.

Cheers,

Tim

[Tangles]

Tim,
can you turn of the reverse incessant beep beep? Nice car but that would drive me nuts, especially if the better half was parking...

[TimiBoy]

Tim,
can you turn of the reverse incessant beep beep? Nice car but that would drive me nuts, especially if the better half was parking...

Already done Mate, at the last service. Now I miss it when parking - I have to look at the damn camera screen!

Cheers,

Tim

[wrxhoon]

Ok then , I thought you had an older model, you can see my point in depreciation then , bought mine for $65k in 2000 , exacly 8 years later sold for $39.5 k ( i must say I keep all my vehicles in as new condition and I maintain them all myself , ex motor mechanic). I lost under 40% in 8 years , I have an 02 911 TT , bought for $330k new , now 8 years later is worth about $150k, lost more than the truck!!! As a rule sports cars hold their value much better than others.

I still can't convince you that the 4.5TTD LC will eat the Disco, the LC develops more power , more torque , bigger engine , same weight ( correct me if I'm wrong here ) at a much lower RPM and you tell me its gearing!!!
I can tell you the Toyo 6 speed is every bit as good as the the ZF in the Disco if not better , the only way you know she is changing gears is to look at the tacho. Ah you don't think the Toyo 6 speeder has any gaps , do you ??
I haven't driven a Disco 3.0 lt , I drove the 2.7 LT and the RR 3.6 lt , the LC has it on the 3.6 RR why would the Disco have it on the LC , smaller donk , less power and torque than the RR???
You should see the looks I get with the 2.5 t boat behind me , taking off at the lights or pulling up the steep hills we have here when going up and down the coast.

Do you thing I would have bought the LC if I thought the disco would be a better tow truck ? I paid more money for the LC, I don't know about you but I worked very hard and long for my money and I don't throw it away. As an ex motor mechanic I have some idea about cars/engines/ boxes etc...

As far as the 100LC TD goes the 2.7 disco wouldn't tow anywhere near as well either, The Toyo engine of course is older design ( dates back to 1990) but she has the the CC and power on the 2.7 disco.
I'm sure anyone in the market for a 4WD would test drive them all in the price bracket they are looking at and make their choice on that .

I don't think the 10000 or so people that bought LC's last year would be silly, I'm sure they would have looked at the Discos as well as others, for me the Disco just didn't make the grade , the RR was close but almost double the price and heaps on depreciation.

No I bought it brand new mate $42 on the road in late 02 (it was often assumed back then, wrongly that the D2 was very expsensive - in 5 seat manual form it wasnt).

I know that toyota are selling heaps, but thats always the case.

As for the Twin Turbo specs are never the whole story - my bet is that there wont be much in it either way.

Mate we could have some fun all day, as we did in a previous thread about LR and Toyota but the fact is that we will never agree. In the 100 series the 2.7TD was clearly a better engine to tow with compared to anything Toyota had. Toyota have clawed back, but to say that it would eat the Twin Turbo 3.0 is just not right, and so it was corrected so that others (I really couldnt care less) who read this thread dont take your comments as gospel. Gearing is also a big thing and the Disco boxes have come up before for praise because of the excellent gearing and quick shifts and it will count when towing.

Cheers

[wrxhoon]

New patrol is out in the middle east now.
Independent suspension all round. Honking great V8 petrol - no word of a diesel yet.
Looks a bit like a 200. Has all the high tech wizbang stuff now too.

I wonder what Nissan Australia will do with it. eg. what sort of diesel we'll get.

Thay are all going independent mate, RR and Disco are too, not many live axles left and they are disapearing fast . Manual boxes are fast going too.

My guess is the Patrol will have a smalish Renault diesel under the bonnet, another guess as soon as Nissan sell it here Toyo will have the 5.7 lt petrol under the bonnet of the LC and the 6 speeder too.