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Thread: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

  1. #106
    Ausfish Addict Chimo's Avatar
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    Re: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

    Jabba

    Can you find the last thread that Gav did on the massive chop and rebuild of his cat?

    Chimo
    What could go wrong.......................

  2. #107

    Re: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

    Quote Originally Posted by marvin View Post
    Thanks for the advice on the weight of the boat, I will strip it fully next week, and put in only what I need, will look at eskys, mite be able to put one in the cabin, and replace the two behind the helm with pedistall chairs... Need something to put the fish in though, and I like to have more ice than not enough to look after the catch when we get in to them.

    The motor is on the highest hole, ? should I drill another 2 bolt holes and lift it higher, the bottom slide hole has about 1.5cm left in height space. What size Raker would you suggest if I went that way??
    Well were getting somewhere with your rig, under powered and over weight, no wonder fuel economy was dreadfull.. I recon with a trip to Jenny Craig, 1.6km/1lt is achievable and maybe 1.7-1.8 with just your wife and kids...

    Dont drill any new holes, it turn your transom into swiss cheese...

    Cheapest alternative is to have a 25mm spacer plate made, bolt it to your transom and have new engine bolts redrilled into the space plate that have a 75mm higher off-set then your origanil bolts..... Does that make any sence...


    This is a photo off my spacer plate I had made to raise my engine an extra 30mm.. Note how the top transom bolt is as high as the transom itself..
    You can also see the origanil location off the transom bolts that are now used to hold the spacer plate on... You could call that spacer a jacking plate.....

  3. #108
    Ausfish Addict Chimo's Avatar
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    Re: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

    Marvin

    Found it; Check this out> ! http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/sho...d.php?t=141890

    Cheers
    Chimo
    What could go wrong.......................

  4. #109

    Re: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

    Quote Originally Posted by Chimo View Post
    Jabba

    Can you find the last thread that Gav did on the massive chop and rebuild of his cat?

    Chimo
    Not sure about Gavs, but Business Class chopped and extended his Hydrofoil 1mt

    http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/sho...d.php?t=150417

  5. #110

    Re: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

    so whats the deal on a 225 honda i in the market at the moment cheers

    ps the boat looks sweet actually ,nice hull lines what are they similar to
    pps great prop stats thanks for sharing and glad you are happy now

  6. #111

    Re: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

    Hi guys, I have read the full threads on both the hull modifications, Great outcomes, I will go check out the local fibreglass guru here who has done heaps of full pod extensions and I will check my options.
    I am wondering if the transom has wet rot or dry rot in it and is water logged??, I lost a trim tab plate from the screws pulling out a while back, and am thinking this should never have occured if the wood and glass transom was solid.... I put a new transducer on recently and the drill brought out damp timber not dry shaving threads like I would have expected, I got a fibreglass guy around to check the transom immediately and he tapped it all over with his hammer and said it won't come off, she's jake.?? Maybe I need a second opinion.
    The 17" viper I tried with boat loaded gave better kms to litres with 1.32km per liter at 4000rpm, and 6 kmshr faster, but would only WOT at 5350rpm, had reduced cavitation, and went like a rocket when lightly loaded, where as the 16" viper would still WOT over 5600rpm, but give 1.2km per liter, should I stick with the 16 so that the motor is not working as hard and in keeping in the optimum operating range with the WOT rpm improve oil consuption too, I needed to run the 16" at 350rpm higher to accheive same speed as the 17" was producing.

  7. #112
    Ausfish Addict Chimo's Avatar
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    Jun 2006
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    Re: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

    Hi Kevin aka Marvin


    Instead of worrying about props at the moment.................

    If you love your boat and are going to keep it ...........

    and from what you say about your transom, ie wet wood / damp timber / things pulling out if it were my boat I would take the opportunity to have an appropriate skilled operator revisit the state of your hull transom.

    If as I suspect from your comments you have a rot / degraded transom now is the time to do a rebuild.

    Again if it were mine and I was going to keep it I'd seriously consider the options of a suitable pod and also consider if you might lengthen the hull a meter or so at the same time.

    The thread that Jabba linked us too is a great example of what is possible and also the bloke who does such work and does it well.

    If you do up the hull odds are you will have to extend the trailer and slide the axles back to keep the weigh distribution satisfactory.

    Interesting cost benefit comparison coming up as the next part of this thread me thinks! Do it up, maybe go up motor size , or not, vs another boat all of this while avoiding divorce

    Cheers
    Chimo
    What could go wrong.......................

  8. #113

    Talking Re: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

    Thanks Chimo, WIll make full assesment this week of all things concerned. The marvin is for Margie and Kevin. See all things must be agreed between the two of us, even my ausfish name..LOL.

  9. #114

    Re: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

    Full boat width pod 700mm in length, new full height transom board where current transom ends, old wash well cut out to give an extra 500mm deck space, with a new glassed in shelf system at the back for batteries and oil bottle, and enough clearance on top for a live well to slot in. Can't be done for 2 months, estimated price is $5000. That's with me dropping it off and picking it up when all finished and painted up to match the current hull.

    I would have to remove trim tabs, transducers, deck wash pickup, and motor, then refit these after pod is completed. Would make the boat from a 6.2mt to a 6.9mt with the pod giving excellent rear floatation, more fishing room, and I hope that the 200 etec small block should be suitable to push it still??

    The fibreglass guy said with a 70cm extension, no one has extended their trailers, and he has never had one returned that has cracked, or had any problems and all pods done this way have proven to be a vast improvement on the boats performance.

    I rang one local guy with a 6.8mt haines encore, that had a factory 1/4 pod, that this guy closed in to make a full width pod, and fuel economy improved as did offshore handling and transom lift, he took off his permatrim and raised the motor 2 holes, he is very happy with workmanship and end product.
    Haven't told the missus the quote price yet...

  10. #115
    Ausfish Addict Chimo's Avatar
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    Jun 2006
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    Gold Coast

    Re: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

    Good luck with that

    The best approach would be to tell her you have checked out a replacement boat to do all that is required and even thought its second hand we can get it for just $76,000 (Go more Ks if you wish?) less $1?K insert your geusitmtaed trade in value.

    Wait for the fire works to subside then tell he about the alternative of $5 k

    Shell love your frugality? and your Saturday nites will be re-instated.

    Cheers
    Chimo

    PS Works for me................
    What could go wrong.......................

  11. #116

    Re: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

    And dont let her read the last 4 posts!!!!!

    I think doing the transom and poding it is a great idea, there is no real downside and the 200 will still be heaps of power!
    Alcohol doesn't agree with me, but i sure do enjoy the argument!!!

  12. #117

    Re: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

    Kev,

    didn't follow this thread originally and didn't know it was you but just read it all from start to finish. Dunno what to do. Maybe get a 2nd opinion on the transom and see if it is all good. If not, that is your chance to go podded and new transom layout with live bait tank and all that if Margie agrees. If not, I'd just be using it as is.

    Before doing what I do now I know what it is like getting crewies to put their hands in their pockets to cough up for splitting costs at the end of a day. Based on your figures if you are saving them $35 a trip off the total by doing the repower you are going to see your $2,500 back in two years and keep your crewies happy it sounds like the 200 is the way to go. The other guys are suggesting taking less people out to keep the weight down but I know where you are coming from having 4 aboard splitting the costs. That is the reality that lets you fish more so you are just going to have to stick at that. Can you cut down on the cost of ice and bait? Freeze your own ice cream containers of block ice or cordial containers you can refreeze? What about bait? When runs of mullet are on drag net or cast net a heap. When the yakkas are about do a day just jigging yakkas only with the kids and freeze them down in ziplock or cryovac bags in quantities enough for each reef trip. I pretty much never buy bait. I am always using my left over bonito, slimey mackerel and yakkas I jig the day before as I pretty much 100% always have live bait aboard.

    The one comment I will make is back to Skusto is yes foils still help heaps, even with trim tabs. I just repowered from a 140 Johnuki to a 150 Yamaha 4 stroke through Brisbane Yamaha Burpengary. I am up 600ccs and it sure feels like it for only 20 extra kgs on the bum. In the river I pulled 33.5knots up from 28knots top speed and pulled 5,800rpm. WOT I am using 61l/h. It was very sensitive to wind and prop torque but leapt on the plane compared to the 140. I am running a 16" high rake Solas thanks to Steve Evans down there as we backtraded my 17" Saturn I think it was on the 140.

    The next day offshore was with Scott Hillier and one camerman. The boat felt very slappy in the nose, to counter that I had to use full intrim, I then threw heaps of water around wetting the windscreen as a squall went through and it was quite sloppy. I could feel the weight on the back at low planning speed and I was on and off the throttle to keep it on the plance like old school deep Vs at low planing speeds. It was also super sensative to prop torque and heeling over due to the wind and stuff. I wasn't happy with it other than the extra horsepower. That afternoon I put my LZ Lazilas foils on which I like to see how it would go.

    The next morning I was out with 3 customers aboard and out of the rivermouth into Mooloolaba bay I gave it a blat as it was dead calm in the bay with SW winds and I still pulled 5,700rpm but I was too busy trimming at that speed to look at speed or fuel flow but I was hooting along. The old boat was back. Handling was how it was with the 140, just I had a lot more get up and go. I reckon my fuel consumption got better too. In the slop without the foils the day before, on and off the throttle into the crap I was getting down into the 0.6Nm/l area. With the foils I was only down to 0.7Nm/l in the rough but normal cruise was 0.8Nm/l or so. In the river testing I was able to get 1.0Nm/l at 20knots for 20 litres an hour but offshore in real conditions I have a ultra slow cruise of 3,300rpm for 19l/h but it is mostly 3,700rpm for 21l/h.

    I only have the smallest Bennet trim tabs, the M80s I think. To pop on the plane I use full engine intrim then tab any heel out then use engine trim to set myself up depending on whether it is downsea or upsea. I have found the foils have just made everything happen at a slower pace. They let you keep on the plane at that important speed of 11-13knots in the rough without playing with the throttle too much. They just slowed everything down as without them it felt like heel and trim were on a knife edge. The boat is drier again and I don't feel the weight on the back anymore. So far I am stoked with the 150. They are a nice bit of gear. I think it is quieter and has a meatier roar about it on the plane.

  13. #118

    Re: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

    This thread just keeps getting more interesting!

    Like others I have read it all and appreciating all the effort and support to marvin. It raises a question for me about my Yalta Odessa 2000. pushed by a Suki 175 4 stroke. I call it the beast. It is truly an amazing donk. Im happy with the rig and all but have thought a few times about putting a pod on to gaina little dack space and then maybe some improved stability / length thru the water.
    MY QUESTION IS
    Does a pod have an optimum width to be effective for bouyancy and stability, and should it be right down to the existing keel ?

  14. #119

    Smile Re: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

    I have asked about the pod makeups, local fibreglass guy has got them down pat apparantly, has boats being towed down from Mackay to have his pod system fitted, Full width of boat to the keel was said to be the only way to get even and effective floatation which is often the reasons a pod is fitted, not just for more deck room usually. He makes them 70cm long for boats of the 6-6.5mt mark like mine. A local guy had just the alloy pod bolted on the back, terrible performance, then got it closed in to the water line, was better, now has it closed in the full width on his 680 haines and said it is a totally better boat now, better economy, better ride, and has taken off his permatrim. So buy that experience the full width pod to the keel seems to have my vote. Missus said no more to be spent on the boat! So I may never get to know what a pod would do for my boat .

    Will not give up on pestering her though.....

    I have taken out everything from the cabin of the boat and all storage compartments have been emptied, I took out the toilet, and put in a plastic bed pan, removed 4kg of lead sinkers, pulled out the 4 blankets from under the bunks, that were wet from the kids leaving the side windows open, refined the tool kit, took out the extra porta gas stove that I didn't know was in the other cupboard, along witht the 3 spare gas tins, cleaned up the first aid kit and made it smaller and put it in a lighter weight container, pulled out 4 spare 1000mt spools of 8kg line from the last gamefishing comp (incase we got spooled 4 times...), plus the spare spottlight, and a few other tid bits, so I guess so far this has added up to about 40kg of unneccassary weight that was in the boat. I am redesigning the front fuel tank and hope to make it 120lt instead of 70lts, by going longer and then higher in an L shape up the nose to move the weight further forward, then only have 50lts or so reserve in the rear tank instead of it being full at 150lts thus this should help with the ride and stern lift by having the weight distributed more evenly. (I Am allowed to replace the front tank as it has developed a fumey smell with the seams of the old Stainless tank noticed to be weeping when air was pressurised into it since last trip). Still haven't had it out on the blue water yet with the 200 to do the true testing sea trials. Maybe end of next week. Best wishes smithy with your new power plant, lets hope it returns you and all onboard back home safely every time. Cheers Kev.

  15. #120

    Re: Etec upgrade 150hp to a 200hp will I save fuel costs

    The next part as predicted earlier.....What are your thoughts on getting the following done to my boat; removing trim tabs that are on a "curved transom" that sit offset to the parallell run of the hull.
    Having the bottom 20cm of the transom cut out and replaced as this is possibly where the water logging may be, then having the transom squared up where the tabs will go back on. Thats option one. New bottom of transom and trim tabs fitted paralell to the hull, boat same length. $200.

    Option 2 is to have the bottom transom repair done as above but instead of just squaring up the back where the tabs mount, add on two pods 60cm long by 60cm wide by 50cm high, running off the hulls bottom edge and from the outside of the side of the boat in 60cm towards the middle, then mount the tabs onto the back of these pods.

    This should give transom lift and assist with the transom down attitude during travel. Leaving the motor on the transom as it is now and extending the boat like a cat either side of the motor, similar to the polycrafts but with a bigger pod on each side is the idea. I can get this repair work done this week, $600 after much bartering and offers of reef trips to test it with the repairer. That price is including marine suitable painting of the pods and non skid deck paint ontop of the two pod/duck board tops.
    I am unsure what this will do to the performance with having the hull extend past the motor by two feet on each side. Any advice asap would be great, ph 0408 848 564 if appropriate. cheers Kev.

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