Fish sizes in Competitions

[stevej]

technically you pull i ton board you have a undersized fish in your possession.

so basically no as you have to release undersized fish immediately
its a comp if you cant catch legal fish refine tactics, not going to die or self implode if you have to hand a catch sheet in with nothing on it

[NAGG]

A definite NO

You should never encourage anglers to target undersize fish. They often have varied habitats and behavour compared to mature fish and can be targeted by different techniques. Remember that depending on species and other conditions mortality of C&R fish can be around 50%. It may be as low as 5 or 10% but that is still a lot of pressure on the resource

Now ..... this is most certainly a downside of allowing undersized fish in barra comps........ not so much the survival rate ( pretty good for barra anyway) .... but undersized barra can be easier to target & competitors aim to fill their bag & then upgrade ! - so while within the regs , maybe it shouldn't be

Chris

[the gecko]

According to DPI, it is illegal to photograph an undersized (or out of season) fish on a brag mat, before releasing it. Any comps that encourage this practice are setting a bad example.

I once spoke to a DPI officer, and asked him if I could take a pic of a barra before releasing it, if the barra was caught out of season in the salt. He said no, i cant take a pic of it, and if he saw me do it, he would definitely fine me. He referred me to the Act that said " all illegal fish must be returned IMMEDIATELY to the water".

He went on to explain that he was not being over zealous in policing the law, and that the rule was there because every second counts towards a fishes chances of survival.

Ive come to agree with him after some thought.

Andrew

[mylestom]

Quite interesting so far with the result for not counted at 87.5%.

Various opinions, would like to hear from those who have competed in events that allowed fish undersize or weight to be allowed, possibly as catch and release.

Trying to get a truly balanced idea of what people think or compete in.

Thanks to those who have already replied, some very interesting comments so far.

Trev

[Fishobloke]

I say yes because, if there are no legal size fish about, then no one will catch anything for the competition, so does this mean they did not do well in targeting the set species?
In saying this, must be catch and release, preserve the future.

[mylestom]

Which competition allow undersize or underweight fish?

Trev

[sleepygreg]

None that I know of Trev, nor should there be. My post including the anecdote re the ABT was not meant to cast aspersions on them, but to highlight the ethics they have on a positive note...perhaps i didnt word it as well as i could have.

Greg

[mylestom]

From the replies seems like only a few of the barra events allow.

We ( Local comp) tend to exceed the limits( IE. Flathead over 70cm on in Catch N Release) this is in NSW where it is still legal to keep them over 70cm.

Our local comptetion is this weekend and will have another talk to the NSW Fisheries guys.

Information sharing is good, but me personally would like to only legal fish allowed to be entered in Competitions. Especially where others (IE. children and other anglers) might get the impression that its legal sometimes to not release them straight away.

Trev

[Ben D]

There are a few competitions where undersized fish could count towards final points scores, either now or in the recent past. These included the flathead classic on the Gold Coast and the Barra Classic in the NT, both of which were tag and release formats as well as lure only. There will also be some gamefishing tournaments which would allow anglers to tag and release undersized fish as part of their event, with points being allocated to do so.

In all these cases tagging of the fish as part of a co operative tagging programme has and continues to result in accumulation of large amounts of valuable scientific information on the fish species involved. This is part of the reason why both barra and flathead classic tournaments and most tag and releae game fishing tournaments score really well in the NEATFish environmental standard for fishing tournaments (www.neatfish.com). The points scoring systems of both flathead and barra classic allow anglers to score a minimal number of points for tagging and releasing undersized fish, and weigh the points heavily in favour of larger fish, so there is certainly no way anyone could win these tournaments by targeting undersized fish.

If you run a tournament and want to know more about the national environmental standard for fishing tournaments, I encourage you to log in at www.neatfish.com and run through the questionnaire to see how your tournament rates on the 1 to 5 star scoring system. Both flathead classic and barra classic rated as 5 stars.

Anglers are allowed to measure fish to determine their size, and last I checked you are also allowed to photograph them to determine their identity. Certainly you are allowed to tag fish as part of co operative tagging programmes. All of this takes a little time, but none of it necessarily detracts from a fishes post release survival chances if done properly, so if a fisheries officer tried to prosecute me for this I would be discussing it firstly with him, then with his bosses to ensure the officer had the correct attitude adjustment as obviously there must be some discretion applied when people are doing the right thing.

[leelee]

No you should NOT be able to keep undersized fish for any comp.

It is illegal to be in possession of undersized fish and they must be returned immediately so I fail to understand the concept of keeping undersized fish alive in a livewell ( ABT Bass and Bream ) as this means you are in possession of the fish.

Cheers

Lee

[mylestom]

Ben D,

The comp here is run in conjuction with Fisheries NSW, Surveys have been conducted over many years, and the fisheries volunteers are at every event.

Some competitions are run as family orientated events, and I( personally) do not think that the allowing of undersize fish to be counted is a good role model for young anglers.

We have approx 650anglers at this event and has been running for 15 years, Senior members of fisheries do/ have attended on a regular basis, and have personally commended us on our objectives. While Neatfish and others have their criteria, that criteria is not the be all or end all of how good a competition is.

Yes we have had a look at the criteria, and don't believe that it is of benefit to our community event. This does not mean that the criteria is wrong, it is just that one set of guidelines does not apply to rating all competitions.

Yes realise the benefits of tagging etc, but still, an illegal fish is an illegal fish and can't understand how it can be counted in a competition of any kind.

Trev

[Stik-ugly]

No problems with weighing in undersized fish for catch and release comps .Usually undersized fish score low and you still need to be in the right spot and use the right technique to catch them.

[mylestom]

Current Poll Stats for your information 12.39pm (Daylight savings) 9Jan.

Yes counted 3 4.48% Not counted 58 86.57% Don't have opinion one way or other 6 8.96%
Not much of variance over the last week.

Thanks to all who have responded so far. All good information, helps everyone to maybe understand the thinking behind some of the comps. Different horses, different course.

Our local comps just over 610 entries till yesterday, not bad for a little coastal village.

Regards

Trev

[ifishcq1]

tag and release comps all allow any tagable size fish to be counted and so they should
all data counts to the knowledge gained and the most important info starts with juveniles
Gecko as for dpi fining you for taking a pic before release, they told you a lot of wank because it is a prerequisite of dpi sanctioned tag and release events to get a photo on the brag mat before release

cheers

[carving it up]

Hi Trev,

Again Congratulations on such a successful fun family competition again this year, it really is something so unique and special for a small village to have, we will definately be there again next year.
As for the subject of discussion they should definately NOT be allowed to count. One of the main reasons we fish your comp is due to the Catch and Release section, it plants the seed into kids head at a young age that just because you can catch a fish doesn't mean you need to keep it, i think undersize fish is definately planting the wrong seed we want for our kids, only just before christmas my 10yo son was fishing at the cleaning table on his own and a guy came and was sneakily cleaning 3 fish, Sam went to look what he had and all 3 fish were way undersize including a whiting that was only about 20cm Sam actually chipped the bloke about it saying"Did you actually measure them 'coz there not even legal" the guy got quite angry toward Sam and luckily a family friend pulled up in the car park and Sam went to tell him about it when the guy quickly grabbed his fish jumped in his car and took off.
The other problem with counting undersize fish is how many would actually die needlessly as a result of trying to keep them alive in a livewell doesn't always work at least if it is legal and does die it can be used not wasted.
Anyway only my two cents
Let us know one day when you want to go for a fish to Trev
Barry