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  1. #46

    Re: Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

    Quote Originally Posted by leelee View Post
    Thanks JM for the input.

    I to beleive the reason it was retreived was because what had "BEEN" done to the lure after it was pulled from the packet, plus the mental value of that lure could prove way to costly to leave in a tree.

    Cheers

    Lee
    $1 Lure then add to it the time spent shaving the jig head if that's what they did - boiling , trimming + a $2.50 Hawaiian Snap & a $1.50 Treble - Loose 4 or 5 of those bad boys & you start pushing towards $30 ......... Are the Taylors in a position to afford those losses ?

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  2. #47

    Re: Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

    You right it was interesting to see the modified lures being used by most if not all competitors, i see this quickly becoming a standard requirement to tailor make lures for different areas even on the same dam.

    One thing that was interesting was the AFC rules allowed the Taylors boys to continue fishing with a rod or 4 already snagged. In ABT a snagged rod is considered in use thus you must unsnagg the line before using another rod. Is this a one off or did I miss something.

    Naggs have you heard of this variation to the rules?


    Ian

  3. #48

    Re: Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

    Quote Originally Posted by baggersace View Post
    You right it was interesting to see the modified lures being used by most if not all competitors, i see this quickly becoming a standard requirement to tailor make lures for different areas even on the same dam.

    One thing that was interesting was the AFC rules allowed the Taylors boys to continue fishing with a rod or 4 already snagged. In ABT a snagged rod is considered in use thus you must unsnagg the line before using another rod. Is this a one off or did I miss something.

    Naggs have you heard of this variation to the rules?


    Ian
    Hi Ian ...... I was pretty sure that each rod was deamed in use too ..... otherwise there would be no reason why you couldn't just throw out a suspending lure & leave it ( jam the rod butt somewhere)

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  4. #49

    Re: Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bear001 View Post
    you lot have a problem....lmao....has anyone told ya's that......tee hee

    Anyhow....cant let a little thing like....5 days of relentless rain over xmas hols hold you back.....




    Cind
    Sitting under a bimini with a rain jacket on is cheating Cindy

    Nah, good onya for getting out.

    Cheers
    Paul
    Ranger 188VX - "Sweet Chariot"

  5. #50

    Re: Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

    Quote Originally Posted by A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE View Post
    Pete,
    Just ask all the succesful HB trollers if Monduran is a plastics dam!!??
    Some winners in this years ABT rounds employed HB lures along side their soft lures to score a victory.
    Many anglers lean towards soft lures because they are simple lures with almost effortless retrieve patterns- employed in many situations. A hard lure can still catch tonnes of fish- if used correctly.
    Soft lures versus hard lures is still a 50/50 game, but hey, you will still catch barra if you only use one of the two, or vice versa,,,,,,,,,,,,but on the day when you throw a continued moving soft plastic, eg, the morning round of AFC Monduran, just maybe the answer to success was a stop start hard rather than persevering with a soft lure. I saw enough info on the segment to see reasons for why a hard lure may have been a good choice at the time and given the daring angler the edge.
    Cheers
    Johnny
    Two other points of interest-
    * the lure that the Taylors retrieved from the tree tops. The particular hand tuning of that lure- their time spent and the value of that particular one was enough to value it way more than the simple $1 comment made by the commentator. In the eyes of the beholder, Cy and Kerrin, that lure may have been labelled a "comp winner, or a "key to victory". To replace such a lure isn't as simple as opening a new packet- far from it. Well tuned lures don't come from packets.
    *3 or 4 snagged rods laying side by side was insight into how close lures are fished to the bottom or pinpointed structure. Going to extremes and using another rod whilst the others lay neatly on deck and continuing fishing in that spot allowed them the capture of a larger fish that kept them unbeaten/ tied at the end of the competition. Sure, they got a mean tangle, but they got a fish that outweighed any negativity of the situation. If they had of shifted, they would have spooked the fish.
    Simple things add up at the end of the day to give an angler advantage.

    Agree JM, The lure has no set value if its tuned to be a 'good worker' which I dare say that particular one was.

    Also interesting to note the fish was sitting right under the snagged lures...as one of the boys said, as it dropped off the snag..bang the fish nailed it...they picked the mark alright...I did notice the snagged lines all aiming at a pinpoint, and not all over the shop random. I also noticed Matt using 5 inch SSS very effectively too...not much mention in commentary. Pretty good episode really...some very familiar spots too!!! The fish seemed pretty savage too...as they usually are in that price range.

    Pete, I can see your point..but if the only lures used in a dam were SP...thats all you would hear about....and visa versa, if only HB...thats all you would hear.

    Kyle had 5 solid hookups on HB in ABT...that was way more than most of us...probably the same as Carl and Cy.....just things didnt quite go kyle's way...and seeing the country you were in makes it even tougher ...but he did awesome, and like I said on the day...if the barra God's smiled, and he nailed all the fish.....he would have been number 1.!!....imagine the bragin rights in your houshold then!!!

    At the moment seriously, from info I been getting, HB's have been going better than SP amongst the locals and vistors...with much better conversion rates too...which stands to reason i spose.

    Cheers lads and ladies

    Steve

  6. #51

    Re: Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

    I just watched the Awoonga round of the 2009 AFC, a recorded copy, posted in the mail.
    A few comments earlier pointed towards rushed fish. From a lounge chair perspective, I could say that some refinement in the final stages could be added- but here is the point at play.
    If you listen to what Cy or Kerrin say somewhere in the episode- he says- we didn't want the fish to fight for too long- or words to that affect.
    One thing that can spook unsettled barra is barra on lines running a muck in the feeding areas- tearing through the weeds, jumping and throwing negative vibes at the dinner table. If fish are quickly pulled from the school to the boat, it reduces the noise factor in the target area- smart tactics- tactics that help win.
    Also, striking hard, and winding extremely fast keeps the angler in a better position to lead a fish away from the edge- not to mention staying in contact with the typical ' forward sprinting reaction' from many lake barramundi.
    The boys mentioned they were using only 20 lb braid, and the footage shows what control can be had over a fish, even on what is often classed as lighter line. Using tackle to its designed purpose is a positive.
    I watched and took a few mental notes on things I will pass onto Cy and Kerrin, and I am sure they have already done the same.
    I do think that the twins teaching themselves to 'talk it up for the camera', also wound themselves up- putting them in a not so "Cy and Kerrin" frame of mind in the final stages of the fight. (21 yr old stick men on roids.) It must be a pretty tough job to fish, try to win and act all at once. I enjoyed watching them perform, and had a satisfactory grin as it all came together. I gave them 9 out of 10. I'll never give them 10, I always need to politely abuse their high class skill- it works- they enjoy the feedback. (we are friends- so the above lines are friendly banter)
    Their last fish- it shows how fast they can swim, and how much harder and faster an angler needs to wind to catch up.

    There was so much information ( not talked about in the segment) that can be extracted from the episode.
    One in particular comes down to working lures. Watch what happens in the 1-2 seconds prior to one of Matt Coleman's hook ups to the barra. Watch the retrieve change, and note how it changed, purposeful or not.
    Lures- modifications not talked about- but clearly visible- tail angle changes to adjust vibe and action etc.
    Other lures used to catch fish- Storm swim baits, storm suspending swim shads etc
    Jumping barra- the commentator talks about low rod angles to stop/reduce the barra jumping. Have a close look for yourself- the barra do not care about the low rod angle at play- they don't give a hoot- they still jump simply because of the lure obstructing their mouth movement or throat etc. Alan Macnamara's 116cm 'donkey' was a classic example of the above. A great fish for tv that one. Well done to Matt and Alan for their strategy, and confidence to stick with a plan. Without a plan, failure is imminent.
    Scotty and Karl fished different water that didn't produce to goods on that day showing how one day to the next changes the system, and the fish. The mixed winds over those few days messed up the possibilities making it difficult for the anglers to pin point fish in any singular spot. Tough fishing conditions- for certain. Scotty was only called up to the AFC shortly prior to the event, so he missed out on proper preperation for the event.
    The episode shared lots of information that needed to be extracted with the eyes, more so than with the ears.
    Johnny

  7. #52

    Re: Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

    Great input Johnny. I thought I learned a lot by watching both episodes but reading your post above has just clued me in to another whole dimension of information that I didn't pick up.

    Watching the ways the Taylor boys work their plastics is very eye-opening...

    I will now 're-watch' the Mondy episode very carefully on Saturday on One HD...

    Steve B - I hope Kyle doesn't read this post as he will get a big head!

    He is chomping at the bit to get back to Mondy to put some new ideas into practice.

    Personally, I prefer twitching hardbodies but if plastics are doing the job then I am versatile enough to change tactics!

    Cheers

    Pete

  8. #53

    Re: Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

    Would just like to say on a personal note that I enjoyed watching this years AFC BARRA events more so then any other, and that most would agree. Not having a hairy coot jumping around in a boat yelling at the top of his lungs was good, and although not much (very little infact) info was shared on the telecast as to what the anglers were going - there was no finer points raised at all - the anglers on TV were from my point of view, REAL barra anglers, albeit for one who just seemed to do a lot of talking and not much of anything else. It was good to once again see the Taylor boy's go about their business & kick some serious arse at Awoonga, and it was really good to see Al & Matt get stuck into some nice fish at Mondy and take the win there - well done! These guys didn't get carried away with their 'acting' and instead did what BARRA fisho's do best, and thats fish! Their communication between each other on camera was first class hence why they did so well e.g. talking about what lures to each other, game plans etc. The other team was noticeably run by one bloke who overpowered his team mate, and thus didn't do so well!

    Will be buying a copy when it comes out! Thankfull the BARRA events came first... BREAM is painnnnnnfull to watch & is downright stupid, again IMHO.

    Cheers
    Theo

    p.s. Rod anglers... loved how the Taylor's went at their fish & kept a solid & consistent bend in their rods whilst hooked up which is pretty much all you need to put a fish in the boat - a solid strike, followed by a second strike & then constant pressure. As Johnny Mitchell said above it makes no difference what you do with a rod to try and keep fish low... if it's swallowed a lure deep, its going to jump, full stop. Livebaits are the same! Note how Matt C dropped a fish at Awoonga & from memory maybe one at Mondy (not sure), but those rod angles he was imparting suite barra to a tee e.g. chucked lures! If you want to keep angles that low, then you'd wanna wind & crank like hell to put pressure on the line but we all know that you fight a fish with the rod & not a reel. A reel is not a winch!
    TT

  9. #54

    Re: Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    $1 Lure then add to it the time spent shaving the jig head if that's what they did - boiling , trimming + a $2.50 Hawaiian Snap & a $1.50 Treble - Loose 4 or 5 of those bad boys & you start pushing towards $30 ......... Are the Taylors in a position to afford those losses ?

    Chris

    Nagg interesting thoughts, thanks for sharing them, here's what i think mate.

    Some might think Zillions-cost-Millions.

    Some rods cost 10-20 cartons and lots of bottles of rum (petrol).


    Several years of cartons cost thousands of $$$, add in weekly takeaway like
    KFC and all of a sudden one could have bought thousands of lures or plastics.

    So a few plastics for the Taylors might not add up to a lot when you consider the above. It just depends which way they look at it.
    Catch more fish = Doing well in comp = For the price of sacrificing money in some other area = Worth it not to get relegated from the AFC.



    I guess at the top end of any sport with TV pressure we could look at it like this.


    In the Australian cricket team or any cricket team at that level around the world they will have around 5 bats broken in, (tuned) modified to their liking.


    1. Whether it be by going to the manufacturing plant to get a custom design for the edges of the bat.

    2. The sweet spot.
    3. Length.
    4. Taper.
    5. Width.
    6. Let alone finite controls of the hand with 2mm adjustments of grips added.
    7. Handle length.
    8. Handle Width.
    9. Bat Weight.
    10. Type of wood used, where from, how it's treated and aged and so on.

    Now think of this in relation to a wooden lure. More than a few crossovers exist.


    Optimizing Performance: Batting
    When they have trouble with a bat out in the middle the 12th man brings out the already checked & tuned bats, they don't go to ##### and buy one off the shelf and get the next cab back to the SCG. It's common for sportsmen to use items they trust and know the performance of. It's builds a routine or system, which is built up by successfull experiences using that exact product.
    e.g barra catching lures & plastics (modified)...

    Bowling
    It's the same for the attack. If you are watching the cricket right now you will see that the cricket ball has started to reverse swing. It took hours of work on the ball being completed by half the team to get the ball to reverse swing. That's hours of work, on one ball, by many people. This is seen as a minimum standard in this sport, not to do this (modify or tune) is seen as being lazy.
    Now look at a lure after 5 mins of mods and think "I'm tired, that'll do". Yet at a serious comp level half the team have been working on the cricket ball for hours to get it to a highly tuned state. Then they take a few wickets.
    Food for thought hey.


    Upping the Ante
    If we are at that level in global sports (cricket maybe 5 nations serious), imagine what level 230 nation plus sports are at, against the gene pool of around 7 billion people like at the Olympic Games? This is just a thought, no arguements please.

    Thinking Outside The Square
    I reckon the rods in the water technique was brilliant, if it's in the rules, everyone else can do it etc like side scan fish finders if the rest of the field have them. The raw brilliance of that kind of thinking is the difference that lets the Taylors catch double the amount of fish than most of us, tripple and 5 times more than many who will ever fish for barra on our lakes. That's about 5000 fish difference over a lifetime, so small things now add up to a lot of fish over a lifetime of fishing!!!.

    Fantastic Writing
    I would like to thank JM, this is some of the best, to the point, observation & thinking posts i've had the pleasure of reading, not enough of it around i say.

    Happy New Year Everyone, have a great 2010.
    We have started the year with a stack of barramundi food for thought. To everyone that has contributed well done and thanks for the great read.

    Cheers Lyndon.

  10. #55

    Re: Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

    did anyone record the first one on awoonga i missed it would love to see it

  11. #56

    Re: Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

    Yep ..... these 2 rounds (Mondy & Awoonga) made for some of the best viewing to date ...... certainly entertaining

    Now ... without wanting to sound like an armchair expert & critic - My observations are somewhat different than some of the recent comments . I certainly want to watch both events again for the entertainment value / enjoyment ...... but also review some of the stuff that had me a little bemused at the time

    Examples

    Multiple strikes Which continued right to the boat Sure we all know of the importance of setting the hook ...... once , twice , three or four times. However the constant yanking on the line would surely increase the rate that the puncture hole would open at that point - certainly making it easier for the hook to simply fall out at any moment of lost pressure ( 2 fish were lost at the boat) - 1 hook appeared to just fall out

    Green fish Turning a fish rapidly or disorientating a fish by constantly changing rod angles is a great way to fight a fish in the initial stages - Once turned & with then some semblance of control we play the fish out before leading the fish to the net -
    but bringing a fish to the boat in a green state is asking for trouble - a rampaging fish in & around motors is bound to end up in heartache at some stage

    Early net shots As above - trying to net a green fish ( & from behind) What can you say

    Multiple snagged rods The tactic sounds great (along with not wanting to contaminate a location - we all do it to some extent) ..... Till a fish is hooked - If it is a big fish ...... What happens then ? ....... the reels are in free spool (instant birdnest - should a fish jump over those lines) Then you loose the time in fixing the mess before you can do much with the hooked fish - potentially rods could be lost overboard.
    IMO The Taylors landed that fish out of pure luck rather than good management (a jumping fish on the other side of the boat).


    All in all ...... Was this great fishing or adrenalin fueled youthful exuberance or possibly even panic
    Would you teach this stuff to your barra fishing pupil

    Sure Lee Travino played great golf , Max Walker & Mike Proctor where great bowlers of their time ......... but certainly not fine examples of classic technique

    ....... This time last year - we spoke about blown leaders on rushed fish ..... This year .... to me , there are still rushed fish ( watch & listen if you see the episodes again )

    Without a doubt the Taylors are awesome with their ability to locate fish & fish the situation ( unparalleled in the ABT / AFC) - they work a lure artistically in a way that is to be envied . Their preparation is thorough & well thought out. ......... but when it comes to fighting and landing a fish in a pressured situation ........... well

    Chris

    PS ..... I know that some feathers will be ruffled over my comments ...... So be it!
    - someone has to rain on the parade )
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  12. #57

    Re: Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    Multiple snagged rods The tactic sounds great (along with not wanting to contaminate a location - we all do it to some extent) ..... Till a fish is hooked - If it is a big fish ...... What happens then ? ....... the reels are in free spool (instant birdnest - should a fish jump over those lines) Then you loose the time in fixing the mess before you can do much with the hooked fish - potentially rods could be lost overboard.
    IMO The Taylors landed that fish out of pure luck rather than good management (a jumping fish on the other side of the boat).

    I don't look at a snag and think "geez, how am I going to pull a fish out of there???" I look at a spot and think to myself " I am going to land this lure right in close and if a fish eats it....well I will worry about that when it happens".

    This is obviously what the boys were thinking i.e. not worrying about a tangle until after it happens. Sometimes things just go your way, sometimes you make things go your way and this is one of those occaisons.

    I am more concerned in regards to the fact that the snagged rods were in use and ABT rules state only one rod to be used at a time.

    Kev

  13. #58

    Re: Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

    Hey Nagg,

    I think you're just begging for a flogging there.......

    But I can see where you are coming from, I couldn't believe how hard the Taylors went on their fish! it was awesome to watch though.....Blew me away....

    Netting green fish with a big environet is a big ask....

    But you can't argue with their results, great to watch, well done to all on AFC!

    I can imagine it's nothing like a normal fishing session, having to deal with the cameras. Camera boat hovering! etc etc.

    I was very surprised to see the Taylors fishing with snagged rods in the water. Thats a big no no in ABT Bream and Bass, obviously hasn't been bought up in barra tournaments before.

    Made for good viewing though, and exciting finish to the session!

    Cheers,

    Matt

  14. #59

    Re: Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

    PS ..... I know that some feathers will be ruffled over my comments ...... So be it!
    - someone has to rain on the parade )
    That's cool Nagg, but the boys are smart kids/men, and they wear rain coats and let the rain skid off.
    I could respond to your post, but you are obviously not ready for next level material. The Taylors don't win by doing what you do. Nuff said'
    J

  15. #60

    Re: Round 1 AFC Ch10 1300hrs

    Quote Originally Posted by matt fraser View Post
    Hey Nagg,

    I think you're just begging for a flogging there.......

    But I can see where you are coming from, I couldn't believe how hard the Taylors went on their fish! it was awesome to watch though.....Blew me away....

    Netting green fish with a big environet is a big ask....

    But you can't argue with their results, great to watch, well done to all on AFC!

    I can imagine it's nothing like a normal fishing session, having to deal with the cameras. Camera boat hovering! etc etc.

    I was very surprised to see the Taylors fishing with snagged rods in the water. Thats a big no no in ABT Bream and Bass, obviously hasn't been bought up in barra tournaments before.

    Made for good viewing though, and exciting finish to the session!

    Cheers,

    Matt
    Probably Matt .......

    I just saw it differently ...... to others & said so .

    Not arguing their rightful position at the top of the ladder

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

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