Lowrance/navico Customer Service?

[modo]

LEE to be on the safe side I'll still buy the Humminbird it's been around with side scan alittle longer so I think they have ironed out their problems, but I could still get a crook one nothing is perfect.

[Dicko]

Far from being an average internet jockey and following the mantra of what I use is good, and what others use is cr*p. I prefer to be a realist. When looking around the US sites & speaking to retailers, sure you see problems, but in no way could you call it disproportionate to the amout being sold. Most retailers have these walking out the door. Other suppliers are hurting.

For some balance, I fitted a HDS 10 to a new boat 3 mths ago. It's early days but now have 60 hours up no probs. From my experience, lemons in any product seem to show up pretty soon. Besides being a great sounder/gps combo for regular fishing, just last weekend it was still holding depth at a shade over 60mph with the std transom mount transducer.

I added the structurescan last month and it's also working well.

All straight out of the box, as it should be, (and as it is for the vast majority of users).

If it was lost or stolen, I'd buy another tommorow.

and what's the whinge with software updates ?/ crikey, the computer I'm typing on is asking to update crap all the time. Even my stupidly expensive software for work has more upgrades than a politician's travel itinerary.

I see it as a good thing we can update this gear so easily these days.

I know Newby has his problems, and I cant see that ending in anything other than tears. (I should I say 'more' tears ?). There's 3 installers involved, plus Navico as the supplier. Most issues sound like they are or have been related to the location of the transducer and initially installing a faulty one. No one is singley responsible for the job, so no one is singley responsible for sorting it out.

Rightly, or wrongly, each will pass the buck.

[leelee]

Thanks for the reply Newby.

A lot of the info you have posted will help keep the bandwagon guys on the straight and narrow I think as it has confirmed a few things.

1. The HDS unit is not defective and is in good working order.

2. Who in their right mind would ct the transducer cable and join it, that’s just crazy its good you picked that up.

3. The external aerial requiring a T piece is always and has always been required if you are networking through NMEA. It’s the only way to use extra ancillaries and it’s the only way to get the data across multiple units ( excepting Ethernet which is ot always applicable or a viable option ). The HDS units have an internal aerial, does it work even though it flush mounted in dash? I know it works in the bows of bass boats mounted in behind anchor wells and under the tup skin of the hull.

4. So the issue with the wrong transducer being sent was the issue of trying to be plugged into the wrong socket. That won’t be the first or last time that happens mate as its more common then not.

5. The location of the 1kw transducer I think is the reason its not working correctly and or the fact that it is such a sensitive piece of equipment as you proved the 600w was perfect and worked correctly. For the record though the 600w transducer does have the ability to return soundings in the range you want though.

6. The radar issue is an interesting one and possibly think it could be a simple setting but I understand that its not really the highest priority in the scheme of things.

Thanks for taking the time out to answer the questions and by the look of it progress has been made and I understand your frustrations as I am building a house and I think you will agree I don’t need to say anymore.

I also wish I lived a lot closer as I would have easily offered to come over and have a look and try to sort out the issues as sometimes the more eyes on the issues the quicker it can be fixed.

I don’t think there is much I can do from down here but if there is let me know as I am more then happy to help out with providing my units settings and config etc for you to compare against.

Cheers

Lee

[honda900]

Dicko,

do you fish fresh or salt?

Have you had your unit at speed in Salt over 60mtrs deep, do you have any photos, particularly of fish at speed on the unit?

Have you ever noticed that the unit changes from a very detail bottom view, when you get on the plane?

do you have any photos of this?

Just asking cause I see that that the software is doing too much filtering, while Grand Marlin has helped me (thanks pete) to force the unit to hold the bottom in most situations, when I am moving between spots or returning on my drift, the detail changes on the unit very clearly.

I dont have a photo of it but will take one next time out, but to try to explain it, in the standard HDS colour scheme, you will see the bottom in light brown, very clearly. When you are on the move that changes at speed to show a darker colour with light brown.

Now it could be my hull, and I dont deny that, however I have an in hull and a transom mount transducer, both are displaying the same issues, transom mount is worst.

I would be keen if anyone can post a picture of their HDS unit at 33kph or greater, showing both from a stand still (detailed) to up to speed, in 50 meters or more of water, particularly going over some fish. (maybe we should have a challenge to see who can get a clear picture of fish at speed in deep water). What it will show is the changes in the detail level when you come up to speed.

I also have an LMS527IGPS that exhibits the same issues and suspect that there is a flaw in the digital signal processing code.

Regards
Honda.

[leelee]

This unit of newbys is far from the only dodgy unit, i was interested in buying a unit myself because i like the way it works when they work but there are plenty of horror stories with these H.D units on the net have a good honest look around . I spoke to a dealer here on the northide of brisbane and he is tossing up whether to give up his dealership because the amount of units being returned ,its not rocket science fitting a sounder i fitted my furuno and it hasnt needed any updates and has worked faultlessly for 2 years . I need a new gps and the lowrance fitted with down and side scan would have filled my needs but not at this stage now tooo many problems from these things. Lee i am glad yours is right but lets see how you go after a couple years ,they shouldn't release this stuff without a proper trial period and research WE shouldnt have to be the testers ...matt

Mate I understand that but for every dodgy unit there are more that don't have faults then there are that do. Seriously though you can't believe everything you read on the net. There are normally bad reviews and issues posted on the net but where is all the good feedback? You normally do not get that as everyone remembers bad press. Why waste your time when something works correctly as its working correctly so there is no issue.

I will 100% guarantee you that the units returned are a small amount when compared against the units sold. Bass Boat Central has a good forum on Lowrance and there are heaps of anglers there that are happy with their units. I have had issues in the past with some units, but navico have sorted them quickly and either fixed or replaced them within a week.

Its not rocket science to hook them up but the updates have nothing to do with fitting a sounder. What would make you say that for? And before it is mentioned that there releases are for fixing errors and mistakes etc take a read of this thread as it proves that theory incorrect as well -

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/sho...d.php?t=160686

Also whilst on the subject of updates, if Furuno just offered new technology for side scan and down scan but told existing customers “sorry you will have to buy new units” I am pretty sure existing customers would be upset and angry. The same goes for Humminbird customers. They now have a downloaded update that enables down scan. Imagine if they had to buy a new unit for them to receive the new functionality. Regular updates keep the functionality of unit ticking over and improving, which is far more then I can say for some manufacturers.

I have had Lowrance products for a while now and my LCX unit and LMS units work fine and had not probs what so ever and have exceeded 2 eays use.

The main reason I believe majority of sounder issues occur is travelling. Its ok when you flush mooun tin dash etc but when that is not an option I ebleive its better to not travel with the units connected. My units go in a soft sided carry bag for extra protection and are connected and disconnected at the ramp. Its just that little bit extra that I believe can prolong the life of a unit as it is not bouncing around more then what it needs to.

If you live in the local Brisbane area and want to have a look at it all working then give me a yell as its a lot o f money to spend and its hard to be able to get out o the water and see how things work, because when in the store on demo mode everything always looks so good.

Cheers

Lee

[leelee]

LEE to be on the safe side I'll still buy the Humminbird it's been around with side scan alittle longer so I think they have ironed out their problems, but I could still get a crook one nothing is perfect.

Mate that’s fine. Your choice of brand is yours to make as it is your hard $'s that go towards it. However just a search on the net as there is a South African angler who tests both Lowrance unit side by side and Humminbird out of the same boat over the same bit of structure and there are some noticeable differences.

If you live in the local Brisbane area and want to have a look at it all working then give me a yell as its a lot o f money to spend and its hard to be able to get out o the water and see how things work, because when in the store on demo mode everything always looks so good.

Cheers

Lee

[leelee]

Far from being an average internet jockey and following the mantra of what I use is good, and what others use is cr*p. I prefer to be a realist. When looking around the US sites & speaking to retailers, sure you see problems, but in no way could you call it disproportionate to the amout being sold. Most retailers have these walking out the door. Other suppliers are hurting.

For some balance, I fitted a HDS 10 to a new boat 3 mths ago. It's early days but now have 60 hours up no probs. From my experience, lemons in any product seem to show up pretty soon. Besides being a great sounder/gps combo for regular fishing, just last weekend it was still holding depth at a shade over 60mph with the std transom mount transducer.

I added the structurescan last month and it's also working well.

All straight out of the box, as it should be, (and as it is for the vast majority of users).

If it was lost or stolen, I'd buy another tommorow.

and what's the whinge with software updates ?/ crikey, the computer I'm typing on is asking to update crap all the time. Even my stupidly expensive software for work has more upgrades than a politician's travel itinerary.

I see it as a good thing we can update this gear so easily these days.

I know Newby has his problems, and I cant see that ending in anything other than tears. (I should I say 'more' tears ?). There's 3 installers involved, plus Navico as the supplier. Most issues sound like they are or have been related to the location of the transducer and initially installing a faulty one. No one is singley responsible for the job, so no one is singley responsible for sorting it out.

Rightly, or wrongly, each will pass the buck.

Mate could not agree more.

Hang on is that a bit of positive feedback

The update issue is old news and been done to death. Like Dicko said you PC receives updates, even the new age digital Tv’s receive updates without you really even knowing.

I to would replace my units again with Lowrance and I have just sold my HDS7 and am upgrading to a HDS8.

Dicko once I get the HDS8 up and running I wouldn’t mind running some setting by you as I think there maybe some differences with HDS7 and HDS8 for contract ability etc as the HDS8 screen is bigger and more pixels.

Cheers

Lee

[Dicko]

Honda.

I fish mostly salt. Occasional fresh.

I haven't noticed a transition in detail from a slow to speed. Mind you, I haven't really looked. If fishing or looking for fish I'm slow speed. If travelling I wind it up and just use the sounder to keep an eye on depth.

I don't know at what point these or any other sounders become gradually ineffective at marking fish at speed. Someone more cluey would know the correct maths behind it, but using PROMASS* figures if you were doing 40mph you're probably covering 10m in between the sounder signal going down, then coming back up with a result. You'd need to travelling over a huge bait school or something like a whale to see a result.

I can't get pics of 60m unless I run 50 nm out the other side of the reef. Most of my inshore stuff is less than 20. Mostly creek & rivers of about 3 or 4. Was out in 40 the other day, it looked OK

I don't have any pics at speed but will wizz some off. I'll also do that sonar log thing. I haven't played with that yet. Should be heading out this weekend if the rain drops from torrential to at least just heavy.

Lee, will do. I don't know if they have more adjustments, but the 8 has more buttons that the 7. lol



*PROMASS = Pulled Right Outa My Ass.

[NEWBY]

Thanks for the reply Newby.

A lot of the info you have posted will help keep the bandwagon guys on the straight and narrow I think as it has confirmed a few things.

1. The HDS unit is not defective and is in good working order.Lee, the unit is faulty it seems. hence the radar problem...Lowrance also think its a setting...Its on AUTO...The denied that there was a problem until I sent them pics. Imagine that???

2. Who in their right mind would ct the transducer cable and join it, that’s just crazy its good you picked that up. Apparently common practice on flybridge installations

3. The external aerial requiring a T piece is always and has always been required if you are networking through NMEA. It’s the only way to use extra ancillaries and it’s the only way to get the data across multiple units ( excepting Ethernet which is ot always applicable or a viable option ). The HDS units have an internal aerial, does it work even though it flush mounted in dash? I know it works in the bows of bass boats mounted in behind anchor wells and under the tup skin of the hull. Not networking anything.

4. So the issue with the wrong transducer being sent was the issue of trying to be plugged into the wrong socket. That won’t be the first or last time that happens mate as its more common then not.No, bent pins apparently

5. The location of the 1kw transducer I think is the reason its not working correctly and or the fact that it is such a sensitive piece of equipment as you proved the 600w was perfect and worked correctly. For the record though the 600w transducer does have the ability to return soundings in the range you want though. Moved the damn thing and same result. It currently sits in 3 feet of water. Clean water.

6. The radar issue is an interesting one and possibly think it could be a simple setting but I understand that its not really the highest priority in the scheme of things. Just added to the list mate.

Thanks for taking the time out to answer the questions and by the look of it progress has been made and I understand your frustrations as I am building a house and I think you will agree I don’t need to say anymore.

I also wish I lived a lot closer as I would have easily offered to come over and have a look and try to sort out the issues as sometimes the more eyes on the issues the quicker it can be fixed.

I don’t think there is much I can do from down here but if there is let me know as I am more then happy to help out with providing my units settings and config etc for you to compare against.

Cheers

Lee

So now the dude from Lowrance is not coming up for another few weeks. 5 weeks ago he was going to be here in 2 weeks.
Lee, its not just the product mate. Its the company itself. Any normal person would have given up by now and they would have gotten away with it.
1 more problem and I will demand my money back. And I will end up taking them to court. I will bend them over and insert the pineapple of the "merchantable goods act" right into their rectum.
Enough is enough

[leelee]

So now the dude from Lowrance is not coming up for another few weeks. 5 weeks ago he was going to be here in 2 weeks.
Lee, its not just the product mate. Its the company itself. Any normal person would have given up by now and they would have gotten away with it.
1 more problem and I will demand my money back. And I will end up taking them to court. I will bend them over and insert the pineapple of the "merchantable goods act" right into their rectum.
Enough is enough

Totally understand mate.


Radar is something I don’t have so can’t help with that but if the blip is following you around then its picking up something from either boat or it could be a setting or it could be a fault.

The bent pins is quite common from trying to connect it to the wrong socket and the pins can break if push comes to shove.

The only reason you will require the T piece is for networking. I assume the aerial you have is the LGC-4000? If so how many HDS units do you have? If you have more then 1 on board then you are networking and you need the t-piece if it is NMEA. If you have fuel flow meters etc or any other product that is going to be connected via the NMEA cord then that is networking and the t piece is needed. However to check the GPS just plug the cord from the aerial into the NMEA output socket on the rear of the unit. It should then begin to work.

I understand you spent a heap of money on the 1kw transducer but do you have a 600w one there to use in the mean time? That might be an option for you till Lowrance arrive to look at the setup and would enable you get out and have a fish.

Cheers

Lee

[honda900]

Honda.

I fish mostly salt. Occasional fresh.

I haven't noticed a transition in detail from a slow to speed. Mind you, I haven't really looked. If fishing or looking for fish I'm slow speed. If travelling I wind it up and just use the sounder to keep an eye on depth.

I don't know at what point these or any other sounders become gradually ineffective at marking fish at speed. Someone more cluey would know the correct maths behind it, but using PROMASS* figures if you were doing 40mph you're probably covering 10m in between the sounder signal going down, then coming back up with a result. You'd need to travelling over a huge bait school or something like a whale to see a result.

I can't get pics of 60m unless I run 50 nm out the other side of the reef. Most of my inshore stuff is less than 20. Mostly creek & rivers of about 3 or 4. Was out in 40 the other day, it looked OK

I don't have any pics at speed but will wizz some off. I'll also do that sonar log thing. I haven't played with that yet. Should be heading out this weekend if the rain drops from torrential to at least just heavy.

Lee, will do. I don't know if they have more adjustments, but the 8 has more buttons that the 7. lol



*PROMASS = Pulled Right Outa My Ass.

Dicko,
PROMAS, being the point, ever tried to find a picture of a lowrance HDS @ speed in deep water?? try it.. I have the only pictures that I can find anywhere the world, rather suprising.

The attached photo is of an LMS527c in 60 meters of water, The HDS 8 exhibits the same traits using two different transducers, the transducer that is used in the following picture is a transom mount 50/200 transducer.

Since this was taken I have also had installed a p79 airmar transducer and still see exactly the same problem. I have had both transducers, placement / configuration reviewed by a reputable lowrance dealer. Both are positioned well from an installation perspective.

I summise, that the units work reasonably well in shallow water at speed, I would like to clarify PROMAS speed, as I find the units to change the detail level at very low speed in deep water, I estimate (my personal experience) offhore to run at somewhere on a very reasonable day between 30-40kph or 18.8 knots (average speed). Please note the RPM on my display that equates to 21KPH on the gps.

I am not having a shot at you, at all, but am trying to find someone with a late model unit that can challenge my results. If it can be proven that the units work at speed in deep water I will be more than impressed, I just cant find anyone with any results at all.

My challenge is to find someone who is able to show me that the HDS works at speed in deep salt water and not at speed boat pace but normal speed. I have seen it on done on Smithys furuno 585.

The green box (bottom left) shows drift detail, the white box (right hand side, shows the same area running back to the start of my drift. If you look at the detail below the yellow it becomes very apparent that the detail level changes, when moving, (no fish unforntately but I will get a proper photo next time I am out on the HDS8.)

PS, the xtra buttons on the HDS 8 dont have any additional functions over the seven (note the download from lowrance is one version for all models) however the buttons provide much better access to frequently used settings without having to dig through the menu's and you are right the 8 is a higher resolution, the xtra buttons make the unit much more useable.






Regards
HOnda.

[Dicko]

I see what your talking about, but buggered if I know the answer. Some of the US forums have some cluey buggers. Some would know the 'bounce time' for want of a better word of various transducers/sounders. Logic says that a unit that has a faster 'responce' of the signal would be better at speed in deep water. Perhaps the Furuno does that ?Have you asked around THT ?

Looks like I'm heading out tommorow. I'll take more notice of the detail at speed & grab some screeen shots and that log if they're of any help for a comparison. Wont be deep though.

[honda900]

Have tried the american forums with the same result. Seems that everyone but me fishes shallow water..

It really becomes obvious when you take notice of if tho.

will be interesting to see youre results.

Regards
Honda.

[leelee]

Honda, Dicko is on the money with BOUNCE TIMES. That’s what you need to know. I don't know the technical name sorry, but you need to know how long it takes send a PING down and have the transducer receive the value back.

Some manufacturers actually have software built into the unit to hide any gaps between return for when returns are lost.

You will always get a better sounding is real deep water when going slow but have you tried PING rates and scroll speed adjustments on your unit?

Have a read of the manual as it explains scroll speeds and ping speed in more detail.

I normally have the ping speed quite high on my lms525 and if you bump the scroll speed up to high the flasher bar on the right will increase in size but I think you can change this back and reduce its size.

Cheers

Lee

[NEWBY]

Totally understand mate.


The only reason you will require the T piece is for networking. I assume the aerial you have is the LGC-4000? If so how many HDS units do you have? If you have more then 1 on board then you are networking and you need the t-piece if it is NMEA. If you have fuel flow meters etc or any other product that is going to be connected via the NMEA cord then that is networking and the t piece is needed. However to check the GPS just plug the cord from the aerial into the NMEA output socket on the rear of the unit. It should then begin to work. Lee, the aerial does not install without the T piece... Its not networked and there is only 1 HDS unit. Shit I am not stupid enough to go get another one.

I understand you spent a heap of money on the 1kw transducer but do you have a 600w one there to use in the mean time? That might be an option for you till Lowrance arrive to look at the setup and would enable you get out and have a fish. I have an old Koden that works well and I have the Navman 6600 with also works well. The Lowrance is ok if I am going slow or stopped.

Cheers

Lee

See above again...