Barra Basics – Pop Quiz

[skeeter]

For me these are things I am thinking about when planning a trip. Gaz, looking forward to seeing the stats at the end of this, should be interesting.

1. 30
2. 20
3. 5
4. 20
5. 5
6. 20

Regards
Peter

[gaz066]

Daytime 'bite windows'

I guess every day will be different but I have noticed a definite 'bite window' ( from catch records ) around 9.30-10.00am most days , thinking further.....maybe the sun is a little higher and the water is just starting to heat up, it's around the time you take off your jacket in winter or ....just start to sweat up (or dive for sun screen) in summer. Current /wind pushing onto a good weed edge would be two other ( easyish) variables to find and add together at that time.

Is that enough of the puzzle though for fish to fire ? Probably need a few more ? Baro? , bait? , water quality ? ....?.....?.......?......??????

Following the general consensus of this thread , once location and timing is chosen a reasonable lure choice fished with a good technique should get the desired result.

Parksy

[skeeter]

I think your reference to 'puzzle' is the right call. Even the guides fishing on the dams draw a blank every now then. They spend more time then all of us.

Just got to keep that rod in the water.

One more cast!

Peter

[NAGG]

I guess every day will be different but I have noticed a definite 'bite window' ( from catch records ) around 9.30-10.00am most days , thinking further.....maybe the sun is a little higher and the water is just starting to heat up, it's around the time you take of your jacket in winter or ....just start to sweat up (or dive for sun screen) in summer. Current pushing onto a good weed edge would be two other variables to add together at that time.

Is that enough of the puzzle though for fish to fire ?

then you have the winter scenario where you find fish in sheltered (lee side) deep bays ....... void of water movement and the effect of wind - look for water that gets the sun on it early & you'll often find fish.

Chris

[gaz066]

I think your reference to 'puzzle' is the right call. Even the guides fishing on the dams draw a blank every now then. They spend more time then all of us.

Just got to keep that rod in the water.

One more cast!

Peter

Peter , I agree but it would be nice to maximise your short time ( for some of us anyway) on the water by fishing smarter not neccessarily harder , we are already fishing hard but are we..I should say 'I' am not fishing smart

then you have the winter scenario where you find fish in sheltered (lee side) deep bays ....... void of water movement and the effect of wind - look for water that gets the sun on it early & you'll often find fish.

Chris

I agree , a theory I am also fond of

(Apologies gents , I had edited post 92 on thinking further but you were to quick for me !)

Parksy

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

....... void of water movement ,,,,,,,,,,,are you sure Nagg, or is it more likely that a slow gentle movement is occuring that is difficult to pick with the eye. Option two would have my bet.
This scene you describe is where the world of current flow will take anglers; at times, well away from wind blown banks and working on theories far opposed to the general 'wind is your friend' ideals. Back waters or trickles of current that move less water allow better and faster heat transfer to occur. When you think the water isn't moving, it generally is. And even in those quiet back waters, there will still be a section that will hold the most willing fish.
J

[NAGG]

....... void of water movement ,,,,,,,,,,,are you sure Nagg, or is it more likely that a slow gentle movement is occuring that is difficult to pick with the eye. Option two would have my bet.
This scene you describe is where the world of current flow will take anglers; at times, well away from wind blown banks and working on theories far opposed to the general 'wind is your friend' ideals. Back waters or trickles of current that move less water allow better and faster heat transfer to occur. When you think the water isn't moving, it generally is. And even in those quiet back waters, there will still be a section that will hold the most willing fish.
J

Hi Johnny

No mate not 100%

When you can watch suspended algae motionless .... ... I'm fairly certain there was little or no water movement in that particular location
Fish were present & some hooked ....... a even landed My theory was that this area due to the algae (increased density) heated up faster 1-1.5 deg (also protected from SW winds) - steep sided hills ....... with no large body of open water opposite the bay didn't suffer from decompression of the water layers ..... keeping the area stable (smaller temperature fluctuations than the surrounding area) - so overnight the barra could sit at a comfortable depth & rise once the sun hit the water .............. anyhow during quite tough fishing (cold & windy) ..... this situation produced fish ( so yes - this is opposite the wind is your friend mindset) - Better still it broke the popular opinion that in winter - you dont bother going out till late ( fish were landed before 10am)

Chris

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

When you can watch suspended algae motionless .... ... I'm fairly certain there was little or no water movement in that particular location .
That's a two bob each way bet Nagg! You are saying there was movement and you are saying there wasn't.
Even when it is difficult to pick up by eye, as mentioned in my previous post, you will find that water still moves; not at 3 knots but even on a minute scale, especially at depth when it is hard to see movement on the surface in a glass out. Just like in the Monduran DVD, the day was calm, the surface like glass, the suspended visible surface matter almost frozen in time, but 6 metres down it still had momentum, way more than many imagined.
Up in those quiet protected back waters you speak of, the barra discover them by following ideal waters from main deeper channels etc, ie, currents or thermal layers of moving water. This moving water can help keep those protected sections of water in those pockets for longer. The genlte offshoots of current act as a barrier to keep it in. You can't see it, but it is happening. Coloured dye would be the answer, in a control. Those data loggers I played with for a while proved temp variance (dropping) metres down, even on warm calm days, and even in those seemingly dead still pools. In honesty, water in a pool or a duckpond probably never becomes absolutely motionless. In those quiet waters, there will still be small sections that the barra use to feed- based on trickles of current that we cannot see.
Your theory on the piece of stable water is spot on, and that water improving once weather/heat etc arrived. This is what Big Ren spoke about the other day- saying that bite times occur not when we want them to, but when conditions suit. A big pile of 'popular beliefs' need to be ditched.
Winter, Faust, Cy, Kerrin and I- multiples of barra on surface lures on dawn. Match that with those who fish night times in winter for another mixed look at how, when, where and why.
Johnny

[Dick Pasfield]

Following the general consensus of this thread, once location and timing is chosen a reasonable lure choice fished with a good technique should get the desired result.

Parksy

‘bout right, not rocket science is it! Some flippancy there I’ll acknowledge because it’s not always easy to hold that line on the day when it’s quiet. Limited time on the water such as a weekend every so often puts the pressure on, we’ve all been there done that. Regardless of whether you speak with the fish, sleep with the fish or just plain yell at the fish your best tool you have in your kit is what you have between the ears. It takes confidence and or faith to stick to a plan like the one quoted by Parksy above but in the end it’s that strategy that either gets you fish, builds the knowledge base or both.

I wonder how often people on the day put learning as a priority and catching as just one of the outcomes?

Still on bite fish activity periods, nothing like a practical demonstration to reinforce a theory al least to myself. When Pakistan was 1/51 in their first innings I mentioned a particular example I was exploiting –

Bite 'window' is between 5.45 and 6.15 tonight, been reliable the past couple of weeks and has a bit of history at this spot.

Being Sunday every man and his dog will be on the river, so I'll carry on with the house work and shoot off either this arvo late or tomorrow for an hour or so targeting that time so I can fit in my other commitments.

Left it till Monday evening and got three bumps for three lure changes over the period before the fish shut up shop. Last night put me back there again. This time three fish stayed connected in 30 minutes before they backed off. The activity period was short and sweet but they partied hard. I’d normally leave then to get back for tea and so the wife’s not stressing but with her in Perth I thought I’d stay on and see what I could do to pick up another fish. Changed presentation method and a couple of lure changes later one more fish played the game before the worms started to complain and it was time to go.

Interestingly the last fish (pictured) took the lure most convincingly whilst the other fish were content to swipe and belt them, be it enough to be hooked. The last presentation was quieter and much slower. Apparently it looked like the perfect after dinner mint.

[Dick Pasfield]

Just couple of technical questions -

When you can watch suspended algae motionless .... ... I'm fairly certain there was little or no water movement in that particular location
Fish were present & some hooked ....... a even landed My theory was that this area due to the algae (increased density) heated up faster

Understand higher density = more rapid heat convection therefore potentially higher water temps. If the algae was suspended (neutral density) would that still provide greater convection?

with no large body of open water opposite the bay didn't suffer from decompression of the water layers ..... keeping the area stable

Not heard of 'decompression' in this context before:huh:, can anyone give a summary on what it describes?

[NAGG]

Just couple of technical questions -



Understand higher density = more rapid heat convection therefore potentially higher water temps. If the algae was suspended (neutral density) would that still provide greater convection?




Not heard of 'decompression' in this context before:huh:, can anyone give a summary on what it describes?

Hi Dick

How I see it ..... with regard to water temps is that ( clear / less dense) water ....allows Infa red radiation to pass further into the water column as there is very little in the way of anything to absorb the energy
Water with greater density ( muddy , saline or other suspended matter) will absorb the energy & hold it - so my theory was that with a higher mass of suspended matter in this particular area ......... the water would warm faster + also dissipate heat slower

Decompression ....... Another theory ( how do I explain this )
OK ( wind is your friend .......) I think we all know that Water movement will occur when wind blows over a mass of water ... right
eg ( & keeping it very simple .... not taking into account deflection of water currents)
In a Southerly wind ..... The Northern shore will see compression ...... the water is being pushed onto the northern shore (waves will break) ...... impoundment fishoes often look for this to target barra - as we know
Now ..... opposite this we have the Southern shore . This is where the forming currents are pulling the water from (decompression) ......
So if we had a situation where we had a few days of lovely calm winters days ..... where the lakes margins have warmed & all the sudden a big southerly hits ..... currents will form & intensify ....... ( aside from wind chill on the surface) those warm waters on the Southern bank will be removed & be pushed towards the Northern bank ...... colder water will replace it ......... so thats how I see it

OK ...... my deep protected bays have high (steep / nearly vertical) hills behind it. The bays themselves are quite narrow & extend into the hills between 100 & 200M) ........ The bays are located off the old river bed on a bend ( this is probably the narrowest part of the lake with only 150M to the opposite tree line & 300M to the opposite hard bank. So even in the reasonably strong south westerly winds that were blowing on those days ...... the high hills acted as a barrier & by the time the winds reached the water level ..... there was only a fairly short surface area to be acted upon ......... so rather than a high volume of water movement (blown out or drawn out) Which would be expected in these conditions ...... there was very little.
I dont know if its the best explanation ........ but its the best I could do

Chris

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Now we are talking fishing!!

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Dick,
I used the words compression and decompression in my FISHAWOONGA DVD.
I may have chosen the wrong words to describe the circumstance, but I used compression to describe the pressure of the current pushing against a downwind foreshore. Decompression was used to describe the opposite end of the lake where the water was being moved away from by prevailing winds.
As we know, water does not compress very well, but the water does put pressure on an object as it hits it, so I'm open for better words to describe the scenario if it is the wrong word choice. If it's the wrong word, maybe blame me. (ducks for cover).

[NAGG]

If it's the wrong word, maybe blame me. (ducks for cover).

Johnny ....... I reckon its a cracker of a description (be proud of it ) - Is there is a better / more correct term

[Dick Pasfield]

Thanks Nagg and JM was stumped on the meaning as as water does not compress all that well.

I'd refer to what you describe as water mounding (a groundwater phenomenon), might not be the technically correct words either. If you measured surface water height you'd find it higher on the windward side. I've visually witnessed that in a creek on Lake Argyle. A storm moving across the lake (20ks) pushed water before it making the creek run backwards. The only way that could happen would be raising the water height in the bay the creek fed into.