Barra Basics – Pop Quiz

[Dick Pasfield]

Probably 'window' is technically not the correct word, implying no access once the window has passed, not in fact true, so much for semantics.

I'd expect you'd be aware of a number of these 'windows' Nagg but generally some examples are -

Last hour of an outgoing tide and the first hour of an incoming in estuaries (barra and salmon)

Early morning or late afternoon for predators that can 'see' better with light hitting the water at an acute angle.

The wind example Scott gave earlier seems to be one talked about a bit for dams.

a hatch

etc etc

The dynamics of the water body coupled with seasonal and day to day environmental factors go to influence these times at times you can set you watch by them.

[NAGG]

Probably 'window' is technically not the correct word, implying no access once the window has passed, not in fact true, so much for semantics.

I'd expect you'd be aware of a number of these 'windows' Nagg but generally some examples are -

Last hour of an outgoing tide and the first hour of an incoming in estuaries (barra and salmon)

Early morning or late afternoon for predators that can 'see' better with light hitting the water at an acute angle.

The wind example Scott gave earlier seems to be one talked about a bit for dams.

a hatch

etc etc

The dynamics of the water body coupled with seasonal and day to day environmental factors go to influence these times at times you can set you watch by them.

Hi Dick

I have a little chuckle when I hear the term "window" - what , should we not bother to fish outside these windows

Sure we all see periods of increased bait & fish activity - so what are they (too help others)

Wind .... is a common one (increase or decrease in velocity) , change in direction (which can also decrease activity) -
Spikes in barometric pressure ...... nice in winter.
Moonrise or set
Sunset ..... last of light
Cloud cover during a bright day
Waves start to break on a shoreline ( creating a transition , demarcation line)
Tide changes (local) -

I'm sure there are plenty more


Chris

[Dick Pasfield]

what , should we not bother to fish outside these windows

Yes because there's always a chance of a fish no matter what the time or conditions, also the priority may be just to get out of the house for an hour or so regardless of what opportunities may present themselves.

Knowing the 'windows' can help is as follows -

Currently its 37.1 C and rising, Pakistan is 1/51 and there's skirting board to fix in the house. The air con is on, the cricket is on and I can potter around one bit of skirting board at a time.

Bite 'window' is between 5.45 and 6.15 tonight, been reliable the past couple of weeks and has a bit of history at this spot.

Being Sunday every man and his dog will be on the river, so I'll carry on with the house work and shoot off either this arvo late or tomorrow for an hour or so targeting that time so I can fit in my other commitments.



In the case of this spot the bite window might be something as simple as avaialble light decreasing (sunset at 5.58pm) giving barra an advantage over prey by being able to adapt to the low light conditions much more effectively and quicker (personal therory) than the prey. add the river bed landscape of a number of snags to launch an ambush from and the added camaouflage they create and bob's your uncle.

[gaz066]

Like some others I don't have the luxury of picking and choosing when I go barra fishing so just have to deal with whatever conditions are presented at the time , so whether it is the perfect ‘time’ or not isn’t always the first consideration.

Judging by opinion so far it seems everyone agrees that ‘bite windows’ are typically location specific and revolve around such things as

Wind (direction and intensity)
Geographic layout of the area affecting water movement
Current
Water clarity
Cloud cover
Tide (time and intensity, just for you Dick!)
Water temp
Baro
Moon
Bait activity


So …….if I try to sum it up then we need the right small ‘eco system’ for a specific area within a lake or large body of water.

Next question then is …….do we hunt for this ‘eco system’ before we start fishing assuming that there the right conditions somewhere on the lake or fish a ‘known’ area waiting this ‘eco system’ to unfold? or better still?……..is it a matter of making a judgement call based on a few known factors and investigate ( via casting ) that area to see if all the pieces of the puzzle have come together.?

I guess experience tells you wether to stay and keep casting for the ‘window’ to develop or appear …..or……cut your losses and try another area. A scenario not dissimilar to the saltwater environment.

Parksy

[Dick Pasfield]

Next question then is …….do we hunt for this ‘eco system’ before we start fishing assuming that there the right conditions somewhere on the lake or fish a ‘known’ area waiting this ‘eco system’ to unfold? or better still?……..is it a matter of making a judgement call based on a few known factors and investigate ( via casting ) that area to see if all the pieces of the puzzle have come together.?

You can ditch tides Parksy (unless there's an impoundment tide capable of influencing fish activity) I was generalizing as widely as possible, but rapidly rising water levels and rain could be included as triggers.

Looking for the ecosystem and waiting for it to unfold goes back to the two most popular subjects in the poll, location and timing. This completes one circle of having the knowledge to be in the right location at the right time. Get that right and you’re well over half way there.

[NAGG]

Like what Dick said .... Location & Timing

If you sounded fish nearby ( holding in deeper water or creekbed) & have bait ........ Then you can feel confident enough to wait (keep casting) for the fish to turn on! .... we saw a good example of that on Todays AFC when the Taylors fished their afternoon session.

we have a location at Mondy .... that has produced fish on virtually every occasion over the past 10 months ,,,,,,, As long as conditions are favorable (holds fish in a creekbed , along with bait . It has a big weed flat / edge not too far away........ Fish it at sunset and hang on

for those that know it - look at Pepper point (Publicans) ...... a shallow point , deep water nearby & a shallow weedy bay - How many hundreds have been caught there over the past 15 months .

Chris

[gaz066]

You can ditch tides Parksy (unless there's an impoundment tide capable of influencing fish activity) I was generalizing as widely as possible, but rapidly rising water levels and rain could be included as triggers.

Looking for the ecosystem and waiting for it to unfold goes back to the two most popular subjects in the poll, location and timing. This completes one circle of having the knowledge to be in the right location at the right time. Get that right and you’re well over half way there.

Dick, I guess the point of this thread from the beginning was to twofold,
1- to confirm I was somewhere near the money on my own personal barra ‘theories’
2- discuss and learn from others, different ideas , theories and strategies

Your right this thread has come full circle regarding location, timing and technique, these were the three key areas coming out of the ‘pop quiz’.

I’m not sure if any of these areas have been explored in any great depth at this stage though?

Parksy

[gaz066]

Like what Dick said .... Location & Timing

If you sounded fish nearby ( holding in deeper water or creekbed) & have bait ........ Then you can feel confident enough to wait (keep casting) for the fish to turn on! .... we saw a good example of that on Todays AFC when the Taylors fished their afternoon session.

we have a location at Mondy .... that has produced fish on virtually every occasion over the past 10 months ,,,,,,, As long as conditions are favorable (holds fish in a creekbed , along with bait . It has a big weed flat / edge not too far away........ Fish it at sunset and hang on

for those that know it - look at Pepper point (Publicans) ...... a shallow point , deep water nearby & a shallow weedy bay - How many hundreds have been caught there over the past 15 months .

Chris

Chris, good point (excuse the pun) and the example is a good one.

Definately not a bad method to start with !

cheers

[Steve B]

You can ditch tides Parksy (unless there's an impoundment tide capable of influencing fish activity) I was generalizing as widely as possible, but rapidly rising water levels and rain could be included as triggers.

Looking for the ecosystem and waiting for it to unfold goes back to the two most popular subjects in the poll, location and timing. This completes one circle of having the knowledge to be in the right location at the right time. Get that right and you’re well over half way there.

Gazz, Great topic and informative read too.

Dick, just a thing on tides in impoundments from what I have seen.. I have found the tides dont affect the water in a physical manner (ie move water...maybe they do??? I cant tell) but I have found they create a change in weather pattern...which in its own little way creates a 'window'...I have found there is usually an associated wind change (quite minor and often rarely noticed)....but its particularly noticable on a dead still day...thats when its has the most effective 'window'..just my observations...I would be keen to here if others, particularly those that fish a lot of days on the water. Thanks for all the good stuff Dick, Gaz, NAGG and johnny too. I have read that article of JM's, and others you have scribed many times on SW many times with interest and appreciation.

Cheers Steve

[NAGG]

Chris, good point (excuse the pun) and the example is a good one.

Definately not a bad method to start with !

cheers

Hi Gaz

While not foolproof ......... I can say once I started to take notice of prevailing conditions , topography ( above & below the surface) - bait etc only then did results improve at a place like Mondy - where everywhichway you look ...... is appealing -------> but you catch bugger all
Spending time with good anglers ..... helps confirm your own ideas - and then some

Chris

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Nagg says-
I have a little chuckle when I hear the term "window" - what , should we not bother to fish outside these windows

Nagg, In many situations, you may as well not bother, if you take effort for reward into equation. I've watched patterns unfold before my eyes time and time again for over a decade in several of Qld's barra lakes. You can chuckle as much as you like when you hear the word window, 'window of opportunity' or bite window, but when you piece it all together you can save a hell of a lot of casting for reward and fine tune your fishing strategy for better success. Competition anglers will one day be using these 'windows of opportunity' to mass advantage and putting themselves in the right 'locations' at the right time for shorter periods to maximise the likelyhood of connecting barra to lines. Whilst some anglers are up a protected river system waiting for the fish to bite, others will be in a main basin pulling barra at the same moment.
I have shared this next idea with a few seasoned anglers now, " A competition where you are only allowed five casts". To enter that comp and have any chance you'd be pretty clued into the world of windows, rather than chuckling at the phrase. Many anglers out there are keen to advance and are genuinely open to 'talk and absorb'. Those that roll their eyes at ideas, especially some that I am willing to share don't get invited with open arms with my work, it is the others that are keen to grow that quietly propel themselves forwards that interest me and see me up at midnight sharing info.
We drove the BBQ boat around Lake Awoonga in the rain squalls and mixed winds today for 5 hrs; I picked my moment to cast at a likley location as we went passed, and had 3 casts for 1 barra landed. Did a 'window' help me , or was it pure arse? Luck wasn't in this picture Nagg, and no one on board rolled their eyes at such.
JM

[gaz066]

JM, a 5 cast comp would be an interesting concept (I'd go home fishless for sure atm) there is no doubt that there is hightened anticipation every time I stop at a new location that the first cast will see a fish strike. It happens very very rarely but ............with more effort going into picking the right area and a better retrieval technique who knows !

Parksy

[NAGG]

Nagg says-
I have a little chuckle when I hear the term "window" - what , should we not bother to fish outside these windows

Nagg, In many situations, you may as well not bother, if you take effort for reward into equation. I've watched patterns unfold before my eyes time and time again for over a decade in several of Qld's barra lakes. You can chuckle as much as you like when you hear the word window, 'window of opportunity' or bite window, but when you piece it all together you can save a hell of a lot of casting for reward and fine tune your fishing strategy for better success. Competition anglers will one day be using these 'windows of opportunity' to mass advantage and putting themselves in the right 'locations' at the right time for shorter periods to maximise the likelyhood of connecting barra to lines. Whilst some anglers are up a protected river system waiting for the fish to bite, others will be in a main basin pulling barra at the same moment.
I have shared this next idea with a few seasoned anglers now, " A competition where you are only allowed five casts". To enter that comp and have any chance you'd be pretty clued into the world of windows, rather than chuckling at the phrase. Many anglers out there are keen to advance and are genuinely open to 'talk and absorb'. Those that roll their eyes at ideas, especially some that I am willing to share don't get invited with open arms with my work, it is the others that are keen to grow that quietly propel themselves forwards that interest me and see me up at midnight sharing info.
We drove the BBQ boat around Lake Awoonga in the rain squalls and mixed winds today for 5 hrs; I picked my moment to cast at a likley location as we went passed, and had 3 casts for 1 barra landed. Did a 'window' help me , or was it pure arse? Luck wasn't in this picture Nagg, and no one on board rolled their eyes at such.
JM

Hi Johnny

No one implied that bite "windows" do not occur ...... quite the opposite
but in all honesty - regardless of the existence of these "windows" 99.90% of us will continue to cast throughout our session .......... hence the chuckle

The last time - I heard that term .... was in reference to a bite period ending - 20mins later another barra was landed
My own PB ..... came during a black hole period ( some two hours after the last of 6 fish were landed) ....... there was no activity & not a bite prior to the hookup.... or after

My mates PB came during a "window" ....... just like your BBQ situation ( we launched during a summer storm ..... & landed fish between getting smashed)

No doubt .....we will learn more about these bite triggers as time goes on

Sure there are days when you say to yourself - why am I bothering ......but when you fish for enjoyment - you'll keep casting

Being in tune with the conditions & environment ..... goes a long way in predicting these periods ......... clearly you are at the top of your game when it comes to it.


Chris

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

The use of the word 'bite window' could very easily become a tangled mess.
Some days the weather and water conditions offer ideal circumstances for barra to feed throughout, so the opportunity exists to catch one at almost any stage.
Other days, the conditions hang in the balance and the fish utilise 'small windows of better opportunity' to their advantage. Sometimes these windows are extremely evident with anglers catching a bundle of fish in a relatively short time preiod after hours of fruitless casting. eg, (5 barra in 40 minutes) The term, 'window of opportunity' could be described in that example. Fishing for a few more hours for no action followed by catching a giant fish could be classed as luck, skill, or whatever, but very often, tiny windows of opportunity present themselves that are short lived and are very difficult to identify unless the angler is looking for the detail. Windows of opportunity can last for as little as seconds or a minute; a tiny environmental change that indicates to the barra- a moment of improved, or more suitable time to act/feed- relating to the digestion process of course. Landlocked fish do develop a heightened sense of when and what. (They are living in a world of extremes.)
The greatest example of these windows being obvious come from the collection of Ausfish barra photos submitted with reports.
* Eg. A day on the water being described as a foul weather day, wind, wet, rain, miserable conditions, 30 knot winds etc----------------------------> yet the photo/s submitted of the barra caught often show a calming lake, nice picturesque conditions, pretty skies rather than the words at play in the report. Often, windows of opportunity last long enough that the photo shoot captures the moment. Of course this is just an example of 1 situation, but it is one that is in these archives, and one clue that fits the story.
I did have a better more detailed reply earlier, but it went into cyberspace, so this one will have to do for now.
JM

[darylive]

My learned friends,

Most agree dusk and dawn are a regular starting point. We get a short window when the current / tide changes, the wind changes and perhaps a longer one when the temp or barometer varies as it may not be as sudden a change.

Is it reasonable then to think the simple change what ever it is is the trigger?
We can obviously target tide and time but the other events are not as predictable. So to be in just the right spot when things do change unless you are the Croc who can sit there waiting or maybe Johnny M. (lucky B) you really , need a crystal ball or the time to wait there. Obviously a bit of 'done your homework' and experience increases your chances of being in the right spot at the right time if the change can be foreseen.

So the best us mere mortals can do is target time and tide, observe and be conscious of the other conditions to take advantage of them if we are on the water when they happen. Knowing your environment is obviously an advantage so as to be in the right spot or move to it when the wind changes if you have time.

In short those of us who are not the croc or JM i.e. living on the dam should target time, tide and location and then react to any change as it happens. The trick then being aware of the change and how to react.
Bearing in mind technique is something we have control over and can change accordingly.
So it it just any change, and that triggers the fish? i.e. sparks them up maybe? what ever the change is, light, current, temp etc. passing ski boat?
and you have to be there and doing the right thing at the time?

So if I have a particular window of opportunity to fish eg. 3 days at the dam.

The known factors:

1. Target dusk and dawn, we know when they are
2. Landscape / location it is reasonably steady over two or three days
3. Consideration for the wind direction
4. Water temp
5. Depth

Then hope there is a change in condition to stimulate a bite.
while we are there

Something we have no control over

• So employ what you do know,
• be in the most likely spot
• be ready
• and hope for the best.

P.S. how good is this thread, finally something positive and constructive
you've all done well.