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Thread: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

  1. #46

    Re: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dayoo View Post
    Guys,

    Like I outlined in another post the $3.8 million raised from the PPV levy is already paid into a controlled account administered by Fisheries. This account could be administered by a committee of Fisheries staff and reps from Sunfish, Ecofishers Qld and RFish. Increasing the levy by about $3 would raise sufficient funds to cover monitoring and compliance.

    A general fishing licence would not be cost effective as a large proportion of the extra funds raised would be spent on administering and policing the licence and not on core Fisheries business like research, fish sustainability and compliance with regulations.

    Sunfish needs to have a chat to senior Fisheries staff on what it would cost Fisheries to administer and police a general fishing licence in Queensland. Maybe then what I recommend in the first paragraph above will make more sense:wink:

    Cheers
    Barry
    With no disrespect Barry - The 3.8 million is a drop in the ocean. I have heard estimates on what a general rec license "could potentially " generate in the realms of $12+ million PA - taking into account international & interstate visitors as well

    Lets start to outline the "real" pro's & cons of a general rec license along the lines of :- PRO's

    * PPV levy would be removed
    * The current SIP's program would be removed as it currently sits - taking an average of the last three years monies raised being transferred across to the freshwater trust account to kick off with.
    * A number ( ? ) of Recreational angling only area's be identified - where ALL commercial effort could be brought out.No further commercial fishing can take place in these areas again.
    * ALL the money raised will go into two TRUST ACCOUNTS - one for freshwater & one for saltwater
    * TOTAL administration fee to run the program will be capped at 10% of total revenue raised & allocated to DPI&F
    * ALL venue raised under via "the proposed" general rec fee/license would be managed by expenditure committee's consisting of key user groups with representatives from across the state.
    * These trust expenditure committees WILL DECIDE where the money will be best spent & will direct DPI&F on how we would like to see our fisheries managed & will appoint research priorities to be conducted by "independent" biologists.
    * Taking ownership of our recreational fisheries

    Con's -

    * Receiving "even- balanced" input on how the money will be best spent ?
    * Selection & the process for selecting the recreational angling only area's
    * Costing the real value of commercial effort to be brought out of teh rec fishing only areas.
    * re-location of commercial effort from the rec fishing only areas
    * Managing compliance


    That's a start - Scotto

  2. #47
    Ausfish Platinum Member - R.I.P. October 2015 dayoo's Avatar
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    Jan 2007

    Re: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

    Scott,

    Queensland has half the population of NSW and three times the coastline.
    Any recreational fishing licence will need to be a lot more $$$$ than what NSW charges to get you your $12 million. The PPV levy is fair to all recreational boat owners as they all pay the levy not just those who use the boat to fish.

    All registered power boats are subject to inspection by the Fisheries Boating Patrol for maritime safety etc so how are non fishing boats like jetskies and water ski craft going to contribute to the cost of maintaining compliance patrols if we remove the PPV levy.

    Like I said a lot of the licence fee would be spent on admin and extra patrols just to catch those without a licence. Please have in depth discussions with the relevant Fisheries staff so that you can get a idea on the extra cost to Fisheries to administer a general Fishing Licence.

    I think this is one reason why Fisheries are not keen to implement a general fishing licence.

    Cheers
    Barry

  3. #48

    Re: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Mitchell View Post
    Andy - It was great to see you at the conference - although I would not suggest we debated anything in relation to a general rec license

    Regards Scotto
    Ahh, I think we spoke about it at length on the saturday...


  4. #49

    Re: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Mitchell View Post
    Andy - I hope that you saw "I" am not the driving force behind a general rec license. It is pretty basic math - just about everything that we see as being important in regards to the future management of recreational angling - nationally - as well as in Qld , requires money.
    No, but I did notice that everytime funding was mentioned your ears pricked up. You are sunfish now, and sunfish is a driving force, as are some of sunfishes affiliated groups. Should I say which affilliates???

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Mitchell View Post
    We are the 'Users" of this resource - so why should we rely on government funding ? There appears to be many who say we can't rely on rec anglers who are funded to provide input on the management of our fisheries - because they are payed by government to attend meetings & conferences ?
    Ahh, hang on a sec. PPV. I ALREADY PAY!!! Like I said at the conference. I could have hired the whole of VMR Brisbane for 130$ I would not have had to paid $50 and there would have been no need to take money from PPV. The outcomes would have been no different. As you said, the food was worth the $50 I spent, but was that neccessary to acheive anything?? I think not. So I paid for that in 2 ways, my PPV and $50 cash... Sure, it may not have been a lot of cash from the PPV, but I still pay for it. I would rather the cash have gone to something usefull, such as catch cards for snapper...


    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Mitchell View Post
    So why not take ownership of our future & work towards funding our own destiny. I believe your right is believing a general rec license is only a matter of time - So I want to be apart of taking control of that process in delivering the best possible outcome for rec fishers.
    You dont give a shit about the general rec angler. You even said so on the weekend. I can quote you word for word. Do yourself a favour scott and do as I said. Go for a walk along urangan pier and have a chat to the people fishing down there. Go chat to the people at your boat ramp.. Go talk to the poeple who are not sunfish and not part of the 'elite fishing fraternity'... You need a dose of reality...


  5. #50

    Re: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

    Scott, after the way you have acted in all this I wonder how long you worked with the Labor party?

    Cheers

    chris
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  6. #51

    Re: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

    Can I pay half the NSW license and half the QLD license living on the Tweed river???

    Gents - despite how hard you fight a rec fishing license in QLD it is inevitable. It might be held off for 2 years 5 years, 10 years but it will happen. The user pays system of modern governance means its just a matter of time. Shame really ... I'm sick of paying.

    The real victory to be had here is the control of the money. Those that are involved should be pushing this as hard as they can.

    Brett

  7. #52

    Re: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

    The last comment from real andy is the bottom line, its not about the semi pro, want to be pro fishos, its about the average rec angler who has a fun time down on the river bank with the kids trying to catch a few fish. Unfortunately the government and associated control groups think that if they suck more money out of the average joe they can make us happy. BULLS..T. If you look at NSW fishing, has it become a mecca of fish and massive sizes since the licence has been brought in, not to my knowledge so how will paying money increase the wild fish stocks in this state, i think that more education to the general public and more emphasis on catch and release.

    To me, most of these guys on here are not dumb thick heads, they seem very concerned about our industry, and dont need to be force fed sh.t by seemly "self centre know it all" organisations that think they know whats best for me and my family, dont treat us like sh.t and dont treat us like we need you to do what right for us cause we cant help ourselves,

    I think its probably to late but hopefully a change of government next election might change the attitude at the top. What ever happens SUNFISH has lost any support from me and my friends cause i will ensure they all are informed about the support SUNFISH is giving to the fishing licence.

    Scott i dont know you personally but your last comment
    Originally Posted by Scott Mitchell
    So why not take ownership of our future & work towards funding our own destiny. I believe your right is believing a general rec license is only a matter of time - So I want to be apart of taking control of that process in delivering the best possible outcome for rec fishers.
    seems to me you are only worring about yourself and becoming a big fish in this little pond. you want to take ownership of our future, have you ever asked what all of us want, our do you just want to tell us what we need. Just a thought try asking for suggestions from average fishos and go into bat for them instead of trying to drag more money out of us and telling us its for our own good

    my thoughts anyway
    supa.....

    The more we spread the word the less supprot they get, they might realise they dont know whats best for us fishos.

  8. #53

    Re: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

    Every thing he has said to date smacks of arrogance and self importance.

    Stu

  9. #54

    Re: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

    Sorry gents (and ladies). I am not bagging sunfish as a whole. They have some great people doing really good things. I am just getting angry with a few guys who dont necessarily represent the majority of sunfish people. Sometime I let myself get a wee bit emotional over the whole issue...

    Stuart, i am not sure who you are referring to, but I hope its not me


  10. #55

    Re: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

    A rec licence,are you crazy !!!!!
    don't forget that getting a licence for fishing is a privelege given to us by the government,............. and they can take it away.
    don;t believe me ask the pro,s and the charter sector what,s going on.

  11. #56

    Re: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

    No, but I did notice that everytime funding was mentioned your ears pricked up. You are sunfish now, and sunfish is a driving force, as are some of sunfishes affiliated groups. Should I say which affilliates???
    * Because I am a "realist" Andy - I may be wrong

    Ahh, hang on a sec. PPV. I ALREADY PAY!!! Like I said at the conference. I could have hired the whole of VMR Brisbane for 130$ I would not have had to paid $50 and there would have been no need to take money from PPV. The outcomes would have been no different. As you said, the food was worth the $50 I spent, but was that neccessary to acheive anything?? I think not. So I paid for that in 2 ways, my PPV and $50 cash... Sure, it may not have been a lot of cash from the PPV, but I still pay for it. I would rather the cash have gone to something usefull, such as catch cards for snapper...

    * I "suggest" the PPV levy is inefficient & should be abolished. Just about every policy influence group was there - Sunfish where catering to a professional group - the catering was fantastic & Sunfish should be congratulated for the initiative - have a look at who attended

    You dont give a shit about the general rec angler. You even said so on the weekend. I can quote you word for word. Do yourself a favour scott and do as I said. Go for a walk along urangan pier and have a chat to the people fishing down there. Go chat to the people at your boat ramp.. Go talk to the poeple who are not sunfish and not part of the 'elite fishing fraternity'... You need a dose of reality...

    * I strongly appose your sentiment & believe I have dedicated a lot of time & energy in what "I" & many others believe will ensure the future of recreational angling, not just in Qld - but nationally. I have been involved in recreational angling circles for over 30 years Andy - As I did state to you on the weekend - Ignorance is no excuse

    Regards Scotto

  12. #57

    Re: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealAndy View Post

    Sorry gents (and ladies). I am not bagging sunfish as a whole. They have some great people doing really good things. I am just getting angry with a few guys who dont necessarily represent the majority of sunfish people. Sometime I let myself get a wee bit emotional over the whole issue...

    Stuart, i am not sure who you are referring to, but I hope its not me

    Regards Scotto
    Last edited by Scott Mitchell; 16-11-2009 at 10:45 PM.

  13. #58

    Re: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by supa29 View Post
    The last comment from real andy is the bottom line, its not about the semi pro, want to be pro fishos, its about the average rec angler who has a fun time down on the river bank with the kids trying to catch a few fish. Unfortunately the government and associated control groups think that if they suck more money out of the average joe they can make us happy. BULLS..T. If you look at NSW fishing, has it become a mecca of fish and massive sizes since the licence has been brought in, not to my knowledge so how will paying money increase the wild fish stocks in this state, i think that more education to the general public and more emphasis on catch and release.

    To me, most of these guys on here are not dumb thick heads, they seem very concerned about our industry, and dont need to be force fed sh.t by seemly "self centre know it all" organisations that think they know whats best for me and my family, dont treat us like sh.t and dont treat us like we need you to do what right for us cause we cant help ourselves,

    I think its probably to late but hopefully a change of government next election might change the attitude at the top. What ever happens SUNFISH has lost any support from me and my friends cause i will ensure they all are informed about the support SUNFISH is giving to the fishing licence.

    Scott i dont know you personally but your last comment
    Originally Posted by Scott Mitchell

    So why not take ownership of our future & work towards funding our own destiny. I believe your right is believing a general rec license is only a matter of time - So I want to be apart of taking control of that process in delivering the best possible outcome for rec fishers.

    seems to me you are only worring about yourself and becoming a big fish in this little pond. you want to take ownership of our future, have you ever asked what all of us want, our do you just want to tell us what we need. Just a thought try asking for suggestions from average fishos and go into bat for them instead of trying to drag more money out of us and telling us its for our own good

    my thoughts anyway
    supa.....

    The more we spread the word the less supprot they get, they might realise they dont know whats best for us fishos.
    I suggest you start attending meetings with policy decision makers or join a group or association & lobby for what ever it is you believe in

    Regards Scotto

  14. #59

    Re: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dayoo View Post
    Scott,

    Queensland has half the population of NSW and three times the coastline.
    Any recreational fishing licence will need to be a lot more $$$$ than what NSW charges to get you your $12 million. The PPV levy is fair to all recreational boat owners as they all pay the levy not just those who use the boat to fish.

    All registered power boats are subject to inspection by the Fisheries Boating Patrol for maritime safety etc so how are non fishing boats like jetskies and water ski craft going to contribute to the cost of maintaining compliance patrols if we remove the PPV levy.

    Like I said a lot of the licence fee would be spent on admin and extra patrols just to catch those without a licence. Please have in depth discussions with the relevant Fisheries staff so that you can get a idea on the extra cost to Fisheries to administer a general Fishing Licence.

    I think this is one reason why Fisheries are not keen to implement a general fishing licence.

    Cheers
    Barry
    QGFA have taken control of quite a few initiatives & have estimates of visiting anglers numbers to the tune of 200,000 PA - I don't believe we're getting there contrabution to the current PPV system

    If you had the money & control over how it was spent - I recon a couple of inspectors position as part of a flying squad would be a great investment !

    Regards Scotto

    PS: I see now one has had a shot at the Pro's & cons initiative

  15. #60

    Re: Sunfish to push for rec licence ?

    I look at what scott mitchel has posted in this thread....and every word sounds like prepackaged government spin.

    So ... like many other things we have seen...has this decision already been made?... and are we in the process of being con-sulted over this issue?

    We as normal every day voters will never be allowed "ownership" of any part the fishery.....that is just a public relations puff of the greatest order.

    Remember one thing.....this is not a licence, it is a fishing tax pure and simple......it would seem it will be a fishing tax to support sunfish

    If parts of sunfish is in favour of the fishing tax, because they will get controll of some of the funds....holy snappin.###### batman.....that sounds like nepotisim of the highest order.

    I bet no one has been game to widely publicise this issue where normal people will hear about it.....and if they do it willbe a "sell job" from the government not a balanced view.

    Now remember this is how this state government works.

    Someoen in government gets some idea......who cares where.....without very much good quality information or thaught on the matter they decide there is either money to be made from it or there is a vote in it..........so they run with it.... they decide it is what "we" want and they proceed to ram it thru.....somewhere along the line they use the "consultation process" that they are required to engage in as a selling oportunity for their view and to somehow justifiy their position with a deliberately biased survey......they consult stake holders( those in favour). and they tell us that the majority are in favour and how wonderfull it will be.
    Then they fail to adequately inform the public about the changed situation in any balanced way.
    the general public meanwhile have no clue that anything has changed.

    Sunfish does not represent my views and I am not in favour of a fishing tax.

    cheers
    Its the details, those little details, that make the difference.

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