View Poll Results: Based on the NSW Model - Would you be in favour of a General Fishing Licence ?

Voters
202. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes - If implemented on the NSW Model

    84 41.58%
  • No - I am Happy with the current Qld Fisheries management

    100 49.50%
  • I will post my Alternative Below

    18 8.91%
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Thread: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

  1. #106

    Re: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

    A Question for those that oppose a Qld general fishing licence

    Is the Queensland SIP scheme working ?????? (a freshwater licence)

    So why wouldn't a general licence work ( with modifications) ??????

    I bet there would have been the same opposition to the SIP during the introduction phase ......... As there was when the NSW Licence was introduced.

    Chris

    PS ..... I certainly dont think there is a conspiracy going here as these questions have been raised several times by different people over the years. Fishing is not going to get any better in Qld in the years to come - unless a proactive approach is adopted.........

    The one thing you can be confident of - A QLD government will not be dipping into consolidated revenue to start these various programs .
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  2. #107

    Re: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

    A fee to pay for the right to throw in a line???

    NO... its un bloody australian and wrong in principle

    I wonder what the Anzacs would think now? they didnt fight for user pays,

    What a soft bend over lot we are if people think we should pay to exercise a basic freedom...

    The right to fish is not a privilege, its a freedom, a right...and to support a tax/licence or whatever you want to call it Scott is selfish as you want that money to do good for you ( ie the rec fishers)... This is money over principle. Also this accepts that our elected representatives shouldnt provide facilities for all fishers with all our taxes?

    Your proposed tax further erodes what is most important about our rights and freedoms..what about the casual family who wishes to take their kids for a days fishing on the bank? you propose to exclude them as they wont pay or cant afford to pay? You propose to make fishing exclusive and on every level I have an issue with that.

    The basic right of choice for every Australian to enjoy nature is already under immense pressure from extremists, a licence only serves to make a basic fundamental right more exclusive.

    Its irrelevant if its a dollar or 100. Its the principle. Just because other States have is irrelevant. I thought the sheep where over horizon?

    Mike
    Tangles KFC


  3. #108

    Re: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Mitchell View Post
    I have no agenda - other than I am sick of seeing recreational anglers shafted continually !

    As an exercise for my own interest I have posted this same poll on the following two web sites & It is interesting to see the different view points :-

    * fishntales.com

    * Saltwater Fly Fishing Aud

    What I am really interested in is NOT the issue of do we want a license or not - BUT rather are we all currently happy with the current system for recreational fisheries management in Qld ?

    Otherwise - How can it be managed better ?

    "I" personally do not see the Qld government providing No-Strings-Attached funding to improve the quality of recreational angling in our state ?

    So how do we raise enough capital & support to manage our fisheries better & possible buy out commercial effort from specific key recreational fishing area's in the aim of creating recreational fishing havens ( RFH's ) ?

    I was involved in the NSW system from the beginning and owned a tackle store for 17 years - I sat on the head advisory council in NSW ( ACORF ) for over 10 of those years. I have heard ALL of these objections before - AND seen what can be done if a general recreational angling licence is implamented with the same frame work as NSW.

    While not perfect it IS a LOT better than what we currently have in QLD currently & I believe it is not a matter of IF - BUT WHEN a license is imposed on us !

    So IF we had a choice - wouldn't it be great to have the majority of control over how it is implemented & run ?

    The first step is to get the wider angling community to discuss th topic & then gain support for a system that WE CAN have a say in - OR we can stick our heads in the sand & complain about all the reasons why the governement won't do it ?????

    Again - this is only a POLL to guage opionion :-

    Yes - If implemented on the NSW Model

    No - I am Happy with the current Qld Fisheries management

    I will post my Alternative Below

    Regards Scotto
    Thankyou for filling in those large gaps, i was wondering when the acronym would surface, reminds me a little of years ago when the acclimatisation committee or whatever felt they need trout, fox's and rabbits.

    Now at least everyone with some reading time can have an informed say, I just googled and picked 2 early results an Ausfish one and an ecofishers one, I ask anyone who could be bothered to read a few then read my posts again...........


    here is alink tothe ecofishers one http://www.ecofishers.com/fishing-bo...hp?topic=759.0

    Mr Mitchell, what was from the start your responses to the majority of Anglers who where never even close to happy with the heightened, pandering to fisherys, stacked and elitiest committes, corruption, money for indentured mates etc etc that got called from the vast majority of anglers?? Can we see those responses? in detail or where any voices simply consiired desent and ignored.


    Anyway cutting the crap as you have just done above what expressly do you want to achieve? and why is yet another arm of fisherys control needed to achieve it?

    now is a perfect opportunity for you who was on the inside and a stalwart it seems, to express to us why the committee suited your particular style of politics but firewalled the majority of forced to pay anglers into mute silence??

    cheers fnq



  4. #109

    Re: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by FNQCairns View Post

    Mr Mitchell, what was from the start your responses to the majority of Anglers who where never even close to happy with the heightened, pandering to fisherys, stacked and elitiest committes, corruption, money for indentured mates etc etc that got called from the vast majority of anglers?? Can we see those responses? in detail or where any voices simply consiired desent and ignored.


    Anyway cutting the crap as you have just done above what expressly do you want to achieve? and why is yet another arm of fisherys control needed to achieve it?

    now is a perfect opportunity for you who was on the inside and a stalwart it seems, to express to us why the committee suited your particular style of politics but firewalled the majority of forced to pay anglers into mute silence??

    cheers fnq
    I don't get called Mister very often - unless I'm in the #$@!

    I have no idea where your heading with this & It is obvious that your more than happy with the way the Qld recreational fishery is being run - and that is all I was after

    Regards Scotto

  5. #110

    Re: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Mitchell View Post
    With that sort of attitude Pinhead - that is exactly what will happen

    It can't be done , It can't be done, It can't be done - Hey look it didn't happen

    Who would have thought !

    Regards Scotto
    see..I disagree with you and you want to debase anyone with a different opinion to yours. Did you do that when you were on that committee also and not give what the rec anglers wanted but only what the committee wanted..that is on of my concerns. Werew you elected by rec anglers to that committee? Did you receive ANY funds for being on that committee?

    1. I have no problems with green zones if they are based on area specific research.
    2. I have no problem with size and bag limits, once again based on research as above.

    I cannot see a beaurecrat who currently has his own little power base stepping asied and letting what he would refer to as a bunch of amateurs take over his power base...not in this Govt.

    Why should i pay for something that I currently own and have the right to use..if the NSW system is so damn marvellous then go back there and fish under that system.

    Lots of things can be done if you want it done..I don;t want a fishing license therefore I will not be doing anything to try and get one.

    Have you approached your local MLA yet to try and get him/her to introduce one? It could be interesting how far he/she would be willing to go..could be a pth to poikitcal suicide in some marginal seats.

    No good whining to us that you want a license system..whine to your MLA..they are the only ones with the power to do anything.

  6. #111

    Re: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by PinHead View Post
    see..I disagree with you and you want to debase anyone with a different opinion to yours. Did you do that when you were on that committee also and not give what the rec anglers wanted but only what the committee wanted..that is on of my concerns. Werew you elected by rec anglers to that committee? Did you receive ANY funds for being on that committee?

    1. I have no problems with green zones if they are based on area specific research.
    2. I have no problem with size and bag limits, once again based on research as above.

    I cannot see a beaurecrat who currently has his own little power base stepping asied and letting what he would refer to as a bunch of amateurs take over his power base...not in this Govt.

    Why should i pay for something that I currently own and have the right to use..if the NSW system is so damn marvellous then go back there and fish under that system.

    Lots of things can be done if you want it done..I don;t want a fishing license therefore I will not be doing anything to try and get one.

    Have you approached your local MLA yet to try and get him/her to introduce one? It could be interesting how far he/she would be willing to go..could be a pth to poikitcal suicide in some marginal seats.

    No good whining to us that you want a license system..whine to your MLA..they are the only ones with the power to do anything.
    To answer your questions -

    I am not currently a member of any committees or Qld based recreational fishing lobby groups. I am the president of the local Fraser Coast Fish Stocking ass.

    Yes I was voted onto that committee ( ACORF ) for my zone - Southern NSW. I applied for the position as a public tender each term & communicated with my customers ( I owned a tackle store , contribute to a number of forums & magazines etc ) .

    Yes we were paid for our daily meetings & travel to attend meetings ( approx 4 a year ) . I believe this is only fair , when each committee member dedicates a LOT of their time at no cost to communicate with the wider angling community when required in these rolls. This money came from the trust accounts.

    Again - I have no agenda - Just interested in what the wider angling community thinks of the current state of play in Qld?

    You are obviously more than happy with the way Qld fisheries is currently being managed - and that is what the poll was intended for.

    Thanks Scotto
    Last edited by Scott Mitchell; 07-09-2009 at 10:05 AM.

  7. #112

    Re: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

    I voted no to a licence. I would like to bring up my experience with qld farming agripolitics, which had similar problems back in the ninteies to what the rec fishing confraternity is facing now: a resource of great value with a government working to take access away from that resource due to that government's political manifesto.
    What happened was that a single farming lobby group was formed (Agforce) from a number of smaller orgs (UGA, CU, QGGA).
    What we have now is a multi million dollar organisation (Agfroce) that does bugger all for your average farmer because it's now a professional org whose top echelons are beaurocrats that mix in the same circles that politicians, CEO's and lobby groups do. Agforce is now a professional lobby group. Does it do any good? Perhaps so, in political manipulation, getting favours done, putting pressure on here and there, but has it made any difference to your average farmer/grazier?
    No.
    It's just another layer of funding for farmers to pay for so they can do another stupid three day course at a discounted rate to achieve another level of certification put forward by Agforce itself. It's just more layers of control.
    I reckon any fishing party is great in theory, but will end up like Agforce, that is a top heavy beaurocracy that does little for its members except join in the government's need for control number crunching. Trying to control it only puts more constraints on those who do the right thing anyway. THe abusers ignore the rules whatever you try to do to stop them.
    Leave me out of it.
    FOr God's sake, can't i just go fishing without having to pay someone or ask someone's permission, or account for how i do it?

  8. #113

    Re: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

    Yeah your lucky I usually get just a "Hey you!"

    You don't read much on ausfish, far from happy but entirely unhappy to try and butter my bread from the underside in the belief i can change the laws of gravity by doing so.

    With respect you do know where I am leading it's exactly the same place the majority of Anglers are in NSW have tried to go for gross years but have no voice under the licence....couldn't you hear them?? If so why not?

    So far all we have heard is this 'utopian recreational fishing licence', surly there was an understood flip side to the coin, one devoid of propaganda, you where a stalwart by your own admission....was it really utopia on that committee and for Anglers state wide?, why has since ever since the licences forced legislation (ministers toy?) has there been a ground swell of Angler groups and numbers looking to improve their lot like never before, what have they lost so much amenity, basic rights, assess etc since the licence came in....

    i know all this is not what you want to hear but there is not the legislation in force to silence these voices ....yet!

    Why Oh why would any model that respected grass roots Anglers ever consider the NSW model as having anything to offer.

    You can answer or ignore but be understand there are no stacked committees, firewalls, elite seats mandated under regulation here in this public domain so you can speak freely in reply to any common angler without fear of whatever you feared you would personally lose if you did while holding a seat.

    Little secret here, I was gaining a NSW fisherys conservation paycheck before and after the licences introduction, i know what it was designed to be from an internal standpoint and I was before and after this paycheck a grass roots angler so knew what it was from a 'common' Anglers point of view also, the two it seems are still from the little I have read this morning, at opposite ends of what Angling actually is and has stayed solidly just another arm of governement to fight against.

    cheers fnq



  9. #114

    Re: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

    sorry Scott but my belief is that anyone that stands for these type of committees do so at no cost...as soon as you get paid anything you then become part of the system. Sunfish is a perfect example.

  10. #115
    Ausfish Addict Chimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Gold Coast

    Re: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

    Sheik makes perfect sense and has relayed experience suffered by many in another field (pardon the pun) In that arena, those landholders way back before it was fashionable, adopted farming systems to conserve their soil, water, energy and labour resources and maintain their profitability and care for the environment without a licence or even much input from government. They shared information about what did work and what didn't and stopped wasting their time constantly "re-inventing the wheel"

    Others have highlighted concerns based on our rights as citizens to use our resources in a sensible fashion without mining them.

    We dont need a licence, we need one or both of the govt depts who dabble in the fisheries scene to get their act (s) together and deal with the rapers and pilligers be they pros or not.

    We need the taxes we already pay used efficiently and effectively.

    We need those who want to be on paid committees to do their thing in locations other than the State of Qld and if any of the current crop of politicians wants to support a fishing licence let him or her let us know their thoughts so we can give them proper consideration at the next poll.

    In the mean time carry on with the discussion ............

    Cheers
    Chimo
    What could go wrong.......................

  11. #116

    Re: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

    From the ECOfishers NSW website. Excerpt of a post by user Maniak, Nov 6, 2007.
    "Just checked the last ACoRF meeting minutes and saltwater trust expenditure for current year.
    Interesting to note where the vast majority of your license money goes - DPI inhouse research.
    So the government appointed reps send the trust (your license) money to the DPI bureaucrats and get reappointed and send the trust (your license) money to the DPI bureaucrats and get reappointed and send the trust (your license) money to the DPI bureaucrats and get reappointed and send the trust (your license) money to the DPI bureaucrats and get reappointed and send the trust (your license) money to the DPI bureaucrats and get reappointed..........."

    Excerpt from Ken Thurlow, CEO ECOfishers NSW Dec 17 2008
    "Fisheries Minister announces the closure of Gaden Trout Hatchery, a core government responsibility. Macadonald apparently considers it a liability. Maybe he has caved in to the greenies yet again. Greenies consider trout a feral (introduced) fish in our waterways and would love to get rid of them and leave highland fishers with no fishery at all in those places.
    ACoRF does a deal with their Minister (he appointed all of them!) whereby ACoRF uses at least $417,000 of our licence fees (at the moment) to "rescue" the governments trout hatchery. And Macdonald laughs all the way to the bank! No widespread consultation or negotiations with the states recreational fishers who dutifully supply the funds, the ministers ACoRF fiddles with - just a panicked response and throw some more of our money Macdonald's way."


  12. #117

    Re: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Mitchell View Post
    To answer your questions -

    I am not currently a member of any committees or Qld based recreational fishing lobby groups. I am the president of the local Fraser Coast Fish Stocking ass.

    Yes I was voted onto that committee ( ACORF ) for my zone - Southern NSW. I applied for the position as a public tender each term & communicated with my customers ( I owned a tackle store , contribute to a number of forums & magazines etc ) .

    Yes we were paid for our daily meetings & travel to attend meetings ( approx 4 a year ) . I believe this is only fair , when each committee member dedicates a LOT of their time at no cost to communicate with the wider angling community when required in these rolls. This money came from the trust accounts.

    Again - I have no agenda - Just interested in what the wider angling community thinks of the current state of play in Qld?

    You are obviously more than happy with the way Qld fisheries is currently being managed - and that is what the poll was intended for.

    Thanks Scotto
    I don't know where you got that assumption from..I thought it was very obvious in my previous posts where I stand.

  13. #118

    Re: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealAndy View Post
    From the ECOfishers NSW website. Excerpt of a post by user Maniak, Nov 6, 2007.
    "Just checked the last ACoRF meeting minutes and saltwater trust expenditure for current year.
    Interesting to note where the vast majority of your license money goes - DPI inhouse research.
    So the government appointed reps send the trust (your license) money to the DPI bureaucrats and get reappointed and send the trust (your license) money to the DPI bureaucrats and get reappointed and send the trust (your license) money to the DPI bureaucrats and get reappointed and send the trust (your license) money to the DPI bureaucrats and get reappointed and send the trust (your license) money to the DPI bureaucrats and get reappointed..........."

    Excerpt from Ken Thurlow, CEO ECOfishers NSW Dec 17 2008
    "Fisheries Minister announces the closure of Gaden Trout Hatchery, a core government responsibility. Macadonald apparently considers it a liability. Maybe he has caved in to the greenies yet again. Greenies consider trout a feral (introduced) fish in our waterways and would love to get rid of them and leave highland fishers with no fishery at all in those places.
    ACoRF does a deal with their Minister (he appointed all of them!) whereby ACoRF uses at least $417,000 of our licence fees (at the moment) to "rescue" the governments trout hatchery. And Macdonald laughs all the way to the bank! No widespread consultation or negotiations with the states recreational fishers who dutifully supply the funds, the ministers ACoRF fiddles with - just a panicked response and throw some more of our money Macdonald's way."
    Well,

    Doesn't that just hit the nail on the head. That's how a Government nicks the money, without even putting their dirty little hands on it. I bet the ACoRF people crowed about the victory they had pulled off, too.

    If you can't smell sh!t, you nose isn't working.

    Tim
    Carbon Really Ain't Pollution.

  14. #119

    Re: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

    Quote Originally Posted by FNQCairns View Post


    With respect you do know where I am leading it's exactly the same place the majority of Anglers are in NSW have tried to go for gross years but have no voice under the licence....couldn't you hear them?? If so why not?
    I was a member of ANSA - NSW , GFAA & dealt with a LOT of anglers in NSW through the fishing media - And I have to say MOST "grass root" anglers I dealt with were "mostly" happy with the license system after we all got used to the system & started to see & catch the benefits. I believe this is still the case today with the majority of anglers in NSW - as I still have plenty of mates down that way

    Like I have stated from the beginning - I am interested in what the wider angling communities opinion is towards how the Queensland recreational fishery is currently managed ?

    Yes - If implemented on the NSW Model

    No - I am Happy with the current Qld Fisheries management

    I will post my Alternative Below

    Regards Scotto

  15. #120

    Re: What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

    The problem with the actual poll question is the supposition that either we are happy with the current management or we choose the NSW system or what other views we have....post here

    While the NSW system has some supporters and clearly some positives it also has plenty of knockers.

    What is missing is what happens to fishing when it becomes a privilage as oppossed to a right.

    What will, and has happened every time a recreational fishing license is implemented is that participation rates fall.

    Over regulate something, make it difficult, take away the spur of the moment element and people just don't bother. Is this what we want?

    Mentally picture "hey dad, will you take me fishing? (Bugger, need a license, not sure...too hard)....Sorry mate, I can't...how about a new game for your playstation instead"

    SIP is by any measure a success(for those who fish the dams) but I know from personal experience that a lot of fishos don't bother fishing the dams BECAUSE their permit is out of date/don't have one/can't be bothered.......and I'm one of them. I'd rather go in the river/out front despite living less that 30 minutes from Prossy dam.

    I have always personally oppossed a rec fishing license because I see it as the beginning of the end for rec fishing as a simple, easy, high participation rate form of recreation for the masses. Anyone can sit on a jetty or river bank and have a go. The number of old people I see in van parks who fish once or twice a year, on holidays, just because it is an easy and cheap form of social activity and entertainment and a license, potentially, removes that sector.

    Yes it may improve the fishing, reduce poor commercial practices and result in benifits in terms of facilities BUT at the cost of actually harming the sport long term.

    If and a big IF a rec fishing license gets up and that money pours back into rec fishing (after the assummed leakage to the bureaucrats) the fishing may actually be better, but only better for those who still participate....then in 20 years time when the actual number of people who still fish, and pay a license, falls to such a low level as to be of no consequence....what then?

    Despite all the potential positives and management models and rational carefull reasoning put forward by people whose opinions I generally respect I think a rec fishing license is abhorant and the death knell for an iconic Australian freedom. The simple bloody right to just "go for a fish" without all the bureaucratic crap we have to put up with in just about every other facet of our lives.

    To digress a little it is wrong to be negative about a way of improving the lot of rec fishing without offering an alternative solution,

    At the last election something amazing happened. Both "sides" had photo opps playing to the "fishing vote".......just like every US president candidate has a photo opp with the "good old boys NRA", guns an all.

    Why?

    It had never happened before. It happened this time because the press had coined the phrase "The Fishing Vote" and "The Fishing Vote" was a quantified number. It was 7%. It was quantified because TFPQ had quanitified it in 4 electorates at the last state election.

    Scott rightly worries about the future of rec fishing and how to secure its funding. Its easy. Make fishing politically important. Do you see any talk about needing a license to hug trees (figuritivly speaking). The Government finds lots of money for "environmental" projects because they know there are votes in it.

    It is, IMO, the fundamental flaw in the ecofishers position. Lobbying, with nothing to offer in return, is just begging. Offering votes for favour, is, for better or for worse, how our system of government appears to work.

    Having "had my go" and promising to stay out of politics it is not my place to stir this up again but TFPQ and AFLP are going through a rebirthing stage right now after some seriuos legal issues were cleared up and maybe, just maybe, the new team will pick up the ball and give the "fishing vote" some teeth again.

    IMO apolitical is code for "sitting on the fence and not wishing to upset anyone". For what its worth the WWF, Greenpeace, Wilderness Society, PETA, etc, etc, will all try to tell you they are "apolitical"...what a crock......they are empowered and emboldened by the green vote.........ironically, a vote of just over 7%.

    Governments don't listen to you because you are , rational, reasonable and "nice"............they just don't work that way. They listen to environmental lobby groups because they have a stick to wave. Organised, measurable votes.

    KC

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