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  1. #91

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups



    here is some interesting behaviour. note barra prodding the squidgy with their nose.

  2. #92

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    If a barra 'bumps' your lure or gives it a tap try to resist the urge to haul the lure straight back in to check it. Instead, stop winding for a few secs then twitch it in slowly.

    That's where suspension lures come into their own - such as the Tilsan Big Barra (Green Mackeral pattern for me).

    Barra will often give the bait a thud with the gills or mouth to put it off course or stun it then they'll come back for an actual chomp.

    No guarantee though that they'll be suddenly come on the bite. But at least you'll know they're around. That's where patience & perserverence come in...
    "...a voice in my head keeps telling me to go fishing..."

  3. #93

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    If a barra bumps your lure, stop winding as the fish might do a u-turn & come back for a chew.

    Suspending lures are good, as they will remain at the same depth when you stop winding then you can twitch it in slowly.

    My favourite suspending lure, the TILSAN Big Barra in the Green Mackerel pattern; caught 13 barra in 33 minutes including a 104cm model - not to mention some png black bass (same lure - same weekend) - it was well tooth marked.
    "...a voice in my head keeps telling me to go fishing..."

  4. #94

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Hi just a note on this thread, my replies were straight to Chris who's goal is to catch a barra in every 6 hour session in tournaments. This is fact.

    I see many ticked the learning box as the reason for being on Ausfish. If so read on, but it you are not interested in conversations about interesting topics we can learn from then don't criticise, it's not aimed at you ok be cool and go to another thread.

    My reply was spot on, backed up by research. Hardly any fishing topics are backed up like the helpful facts i put forward.

    Anyone wanting to debate this is fine, lets do it face to face around a campfire and see how it goes if you don't register it in words on the net. It's a great limitless topic.

    The above thread was not aimed at social fisho's. People twisting this helpfull advice to round up more people for one side of the arguement would be changing the original thread and not being exactly true to form with the intent of the helpful ideas presented to solve problems.

    E.g. Missing strikes, taps and so on.

    Making Mistakes, Then Learning: I remember a day with Mitchell a few years back where i drove up tired and went out fishing then proceeded to miss the first barra, he said " You Suck". I took this advice and made changes 1 second after he said this and even though i had a few reflex tricks and prep up my sleave i still missed that first barra and couldnt' believe it. I identify the first session after a lack of sleep as a limiting factor towards being successful at being able to land fish and stay alert to do so. e.g. be 100%.

    Even though i had a lot of other self controlled limitations fixed i still lost this fish from just 1 area, lack of sleep. If i had beers and bad food added on top of that i would have missed all fish (in my opinion).

    Limitation: The problem was that i couldn't physically coax much faster reactions out of my body that day, so i fixed foot position again and lived in the moment to concentrate on every cast where i had good enough reactions to nail the next fish. Problem fixed after 1 verbal comment, the rest done by my own mind. From then on i have felt confident in this area of fishing, yet finding fish is an artform i consider will take many years to get better at, let alone triggering them like the taylors. I identify them as limitations that might take a long time to get even remotely down pat. I don't kid myself, admitted the limitations so now the path is a solution, not a problem that constantly pops up if i was in denial and thought i was too good to change.

    Learning from 2 words in person or a line/paragrpah on the net

    I then went away and looked at setups, position and how i could limit mistakes after 1 bit of advice which was said in a blunt matter of fact way. I still remember the day and one change has helped me no end in my fishing and my friends fishing thereafter, pretty cool stuff to take someones help and get better then in turn help your friends get beter. Small but great things in life if you think like us.

    Tips in posts on this thread should be able to do the same thing.

    Does anyone think that in this entire post there isn't one good tip that everyone could use for their barra fishing, let alone a competition goalsetting fisho with compressed 6 hour daylight deadlines to put barra on a boat and many times 5 barra to win?

    If i'm wrong then why don't those that doubt me get drunk at every comp, don't sleep and eat once a day over a whole tour then see if this is the best way to get better chances at landing barra nips, tips,swipes and so on?

    Remember i never directed answers in this thread at anyone else other than Chris, for comp fishing. Social fishing and drinking i have done with many on this site and i realise that too many beers for me, too little food and lack of sleep have definately cost me barra that i should have landed on a 1000km round trip. It might even cost friends fish from bad decision making regarding areas fished so the cost can be high at times.

    I think i had valid points which were raised for the comp minded person, not social fisho, social fisho's give me the benefit of any doubt and have a yarn in person if you have evidence that the drinking, no sleep & bad eating can improve comp results. If not then my original post was correct then wasn't it?

    Perspective
    Hell catching barra while sitting in a chair soaking a live bait on a handline is something i've enjoyed from the Douglas Daly to Arnhem Land. Watching my old man helicopter cast a 100lb handline with a stunned mullet on the end of it which was collected using a .410 mini shotgun instead of a castnet. Now thats fishing and Aussie living. How many have done that.

    Not a care in the world, social fishing enjoying every moment, but i realise the approach would have to be completely different if i was coming up against the Taylor brothers who have just landed 8/11 daytime barra on Saturday. A couple of fisho's who's barra conversations are 1000 places Up the Learning Highway, all the way up to talking about mindset before and durin comps.

    My points were fair, with lots of good info to get help, if it's not avoided. To push helpful facts over to telling social fisho's what to do is twisting the story and avoiding change when change may be what's needed for those striving for better results.

    Just like any conversation with Trev. He likes some positions and techniques and others he reckons just plain and simple lose too many barra.

    It would be good to hear what people thought were helpful tips by anyone interacting on this thread so we can move it forward.

    Cheers Lyndon.

  5. #95

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Thanks Lyndon ...... I appreciate your input .

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  6. #96

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Making Mistakes, Then Learning: I remember a day with Mitchell a few years back where i drove up tired and went out fishing then proceeded to miss the first barra, he said " You Suck".


    Thats Gold Lyndon, but i rekon you got let off lightly. some good there too points mate.

    Cheers Ben

  7. #97

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Quote Originally Posted by vet View Post
    Hello Lyndon, great post above. How does all this improvement in reaction time methods explain why my rod holders rarely miss a strike and yet the rod that I am holding regularly does, afterall my rod holders don't strike at all but they have a better hook up rate than a hand held rod. I'm really unsure as to whether striking has any effect on hookup rate at all. If you hold your rod firmly so that when a strike comes the rod bends and recoils itself I think this is a bigger factor in hooking a fish. I don't think our reflexes will ever be fast enough to make any difference at all. How many times have we had a double tap bite from small barra and still not reacted fast enough to hook them, after all the barra has inhaled lure, spat it out and inhaled it again before you can even blink. So I believe a barra hooks itself.

    Having said that though, your advice as usual is very good. Everything you have said will improve your reaction times, alertness etc so that you can better respond to your environment. Being alert and faster can't hurt your chances in any way and it may give you an edge, so anyone serious about barra fishing can only benefit from doing what you have suggested.

    good advice, scott.

    ps. This post highlights all the things we did wrong on last saturday's fishing trip.
    The only thing we did right was eating breakfast. Got on the water at monduran at 8am, fished all day till 9pm, sustained by 2 sandwiches and 4 rums, had 15 bites for 9 hookups and 6 landed, then drove back to awoonga, arrive 11pm, start fishing, bite not happening , running low on coke so were having half strength coke and rum( drank a bottle of rum with only 3 cans of coke between 2 of us), were relatively hammered, hungry and tired by 4am, then I got a bite, nearly fell out of boat, reflexes so slow, fish hooked itself and somehow landed a 110cm barra. Sometimes you were just destined to land that fish.

    cheers scott.
    Hi Scotty great post mate, yep i never said our reflexes would always be quick enough like when i used the Usain Bolt line where even if we had his reflexes we would get dusted by barra every now and then. Your observations triggered a lot of thought mate thanks for posting them.

    I agree with you for sure at times we won't be quick enough.

    With trolling a couple of things pop up when compared to a very slow retrieve with a soft plastic with only 1 hook point which is approx 1/3 down the main body of the soft plastic and positioned on the high side of the plastic.

    A trolled hard body has 9 hook points with 3 trebles attached covering a 15cm area in a circular fashion at times as the hooks sway about with the action of the the lure. This sway then opens up the width of the hook point travelling path which is much larger than just 1 hook in a soft plastic.

    Movement Of Plastics & Lures: From the hook point of view
    The linear movement of a soft plastic may only move less than 5mm side to side in a rocking motion so on dry land it's hook point trail would look like a bit of Telstra rope being dragged over sand leaving a thin trail in a fairly straight line like a kangaroo tail if you have tracked animals which im sure you have mate.
    Not much fun when it's thick scrub on a stinking hot day with a heavy rifle

    The movement pattern of a hard body with a wide shimmy can send trebles over 7cm apart with some hitting 10cm wide which would leave a trail in the sand looking like a beer can has been dragged e.g. A much wider path. Hook points from front to back.

    Sort of like when you see the planes writing in the sky and one has a single smoke trail, yet the other has 2 smoke trails and covers a much wider area, like in a wind tunnel when they work out drag and downforce and add smoke if anyone has seen those demos?


    Hardbodies: Have hooks from Front the front bib (can touch) to 3cm off the back end of the lure. Hookup zones.

    Soft Plastic: On a soft plastic there is one zone at times only 2mm thick and on top of the plastic in a 1inch zone. At times easy for a swiping barra to miss.

    On a hard body the hook zone runs over 15 cm long and 5cm to 10cm wide, covering many more times the area with sharp hook points.

    With the plastic at times there is 2mm for error, if that hook doesn't set that's it, no second chance.

    With the hard body there are 9 chances of hookup and if slightly hooked by one treble there are another 8 chances (hook points) freely swinging around which everyone often sees attached to the barra's face or under the jaw etc as the lure was swinging around and eventually hooked in a second location.


    Trolling
    A trolled hard body has a taut line when compared to a slow hand held retrieve popular in the barra scene. Compare the lines and how taut the trolled line is with a 12ft and especially a deeper 20ft lure and we go up a notch again. Even surface trolled lures can retain more of a taut line than a slow barra retrieve with a hand held rod. This taut line puts quicker force through the hook point immediately upon some strikes, thus setting the hook for us.

    Cast & Retrieve: With much slower retrieves the plastic is at times hardly moving, so what force is going to set the hook for us? If the barra swims off away from us at the right angle, yep it might hook itself, but to rely on the barra hooking itself for us 100% of the time i think is running a big risk. Like Jm and yourself noted mate in early easy days this happened a lot, but not as often now.

    Other Factors
    Inertia would be a factor in hookups on trolled fish. Inertia with taut line through fishing rods will do the work for us at times. Considering the force going in the other direction in a trolling boat which is now dragging the fish and holding constant pressure on the line if the fish doesn't swim fast in our direction.

    Trolling Rod Torque: The rod is already loaded like when you draw back a Arrow. As the arrow is drawn back to your face, imagine a fish inhaling this lure a bit more, putting even more load on the rod, line, lure. You look at the rod in the holder bend like it never does when you strike and you instantly think to yourself "Hell the rod is going to snap", imagine the amount of force going through the hooks on to the barra as the 500kg to 1000kg boat is still travelling in the same oppostie direction to where the fish wants to go. Then compare the lack of this force on a dead slow hand heldretrieve, hardly any inertia there. Food for thought.

    Do we need to provide some inertia/force or none and let the barra hook itself and if it doesn't its just bad luck?


    No Rod Torque: While hand held retrieving at a slow pace the presentation can quickly be inhaled and exhaled with a lack of force coming from the angler which is often felt like a bream bite but results in 8inches of scuffed leader. We can end up being Done like a Dinner. Exceptions would be fast retrieves or burning.

    Poses some interesting thoughts that one. Can a fish control a dead hardly moving bait/weight easier than a trolled torqued up presentation. Can the fish impart it's desired effects of Fight or Flight, Eat or Sleep and escape easier on a very slow moving presentation with slight amounts of uncontrollable slack line compared to a constantly trolled presentation with dead straight line and inertia like a person hand retrieving a lure at a faster speed?

    Everyone has a different style of fishing, rods, drags and setups, work with what you have i say, improve if we want to, trial if we like to tinker, if not i guess we can't complain about missed fish can we. Half of us will care about missed fish and wonder why?


    9 Hook points to 1 s another big factor. A huge difference in hook surface area.

    Stiff rods another thing for hooking while trolling and drag settings.

    With hand held retrieves letting the fish do and dictate everything in the hookup stage might not be the best option, some type of human interaction with the rod would have to be needed to at times hook and keep the fish on, to let the fish dictate all terms would be a disadvantage i reckon. Interesting experiences Scotty thanks for sharing them mate.

    Human Control V's Fish Control
    This is just the human side of the equation, volumes on what the fish are doing i'm sure has been covered by someone on here before. I reckon the first port of call is to eliminate the human error side of things as much as we can, as we have the abiltiy to change that immediately if we want to. Fish well they just do what they want to at times....

    Note: Heaps of guys know heaps more about me on this topic. I've just tried to help with a few thoughts like chatting on the phone or around the fireplace.

    Have a good one Cheers Lyndon.
    ps i'm not sure if i would have got the interest, or landed this fish if i was using a soft plastic at the time.

  8. #98

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Excellent thread with some very rewarding information, thanks to all who posted. I have only been to barra land twice in the last 4 years and had moderate success casting sps and hbs.WE head up again soon to test our skill and patience. Apart from that i have fished quite heavily for jewfish in southern waters with sp , hb and fly with various experienced anglers with good success as well as other saltwater species.Jewfish seem very similar to barra in the inhale/exhale split second tap" of a bite that is felt with no indication of size ever available, on sp, as a 70 plus pounder once taught me on 4lb bream gear.

    From past experiences with various hardcore fishermen the reflex action is near impossible to learn and one guy in particular i fish with has lightning reflexes and converts most taps into fish.Ive tried everything i can think of and other mates seem to agree we just dont have that instinctive quick uppercut gift that trebles his captures and puts him on another whole level.we all get the same amount of hits as him in the front of the boat or the rear it doesnt matter but he always converts plenty of taps to big jew whereas no matter how ready i am day or nite sleepy or amped ready or not i just "dont have it". It can be very frustrating fishing when your arse is whipped. Get most of the equation right then get let down by genetics, is that possible? lol.

  9. #99

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Do we need to provide some inertia/force or none and let the barra hook itself and if it doesn't its just bad luck?



    Maybe good ol boy Captain Billy Bob Bass Basher with their head ripping strikes that you see on the U.S. scene have gone towards this mate?

    You have put into print dot points that are often kicked around whilst banging out another cast, or sitting around the bush telly, particularly hook coverage and strike forces.

    Excellant post Lyndon IMHO, very well put together, thanks.



  10. #100

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    I will add a small thing from my trip just gone I would have to say shere excitment and addreniline can give you some what a quicker reaction time and williness to stand and deliver cast after cast....

    Also considdering the tentertive bite a larger hook size for better hook set is also a small thing I noticed on the last trip.

    Nath

  11. #101

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    In reference to reflexes, it is interesting to watch a televised fishing tournament to see differences between anglers. How many times do you see a pair of twins looking away or being distracted during a hook up. Very few in fact I can't really think of any. I can think of other individuals acting very differently, definitely not number one on that department...

    Trying to react to a bite is one thing, expecting to react to a bite is another. I for one know that I don't pay enough attention to each and every cast. Less casts, more attention = more fish.... Maybe but casting is easier
    Everyone needs something to improve on...

    Lyndon,

    No point me making it plain as you already know but your yoghurt, nana and bix breakfast special still goes down a treat. Couple that with a sprinkling of tomato and tuna sangas and a few solid snacks plus the clear fluid and fishing "Ain't nothing butta peanut, lightweight baby"

  12. #102

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Great posts coming through... brilliant.

    To put things in a very simple context, if you constantly find yourself missing/dropping/losing fish with large hardbody lures, then you've got plenty to work on. Spending a couple of days sorting an issue like this out would be a smart thing to do. Going through the whole process right from the beginning, which has nothing to do with even casting a lure ( possibly boat positioning, stance etc) and then running through each step to find the weak elements will make you a stronger fishermen in the long run. I say this because I too have noticed many anglers and hear of even more missing fish on large hardbodys. Its just not good enough - no excuses. Lets look at a 16A Bomber for instance (seeing as though this is all alot of you seem to use)... 3 trebles, those that upgrade might even intend using larger trebles - I see that as '9 chances'. It doesn't matter what the fish does with it... nose it, bream bite it or deep throat it like Pamela Anderson... theres no excuse. Another one... standard size B52... now theres 6 good chances.

    Soft plastics are another thing entirely. This is where good hook modification comes into play. Stinger hooks may not be the best option. We should be good enough to catch fish reguarly on the one hook. Thats entirely IMHO and I realise a lot may disagree with that, but thats fishing. Its a trial & error process as is everything in the barra scene but this is where spending time on barra fishing in the shed becomes important. If you fail to prepare, then prepare to fail.

    I'd like to write some more on Rods (tips, blank weights, hand positioning) but I'm off to a BBQ.

    Happy fishing
    Theo
    TT

  13. #103

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    In reference to reflexes, it is interesting to watch a televised fishing tournament to see differences between anglers. How many times do you see a pair of twins looking away or being distracted during a hook up. Very few in fact I can't really think of any. I can think of other individuals acting very differently, definitely not number one on that department...

    Trying to react to a bite is one thing, expecting to react to a bite is another. I for one know that I don't pay enough attention to each and every cast. Less casts, more attention = more fish.... Maybe but casting is easier
    Everyone needs something to improve on...

    Lyndon,

    No point me making it plain as you already know but your yoghurt, nana and bix breakfast special still goes down a treat. Couple that with a sprinkling of tomato and tuna sangas and a few solid snacks plus the clear fluid and fishing "Ain't nothing butta peanut, lightweight baby"

  14. #104

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    With regard to plastics ( this is what the thread is referring to) Is it just a case of

    Yes ..... You miss a lot of fish when fishing plastics ! ( for several reasons)

    If you look at some of the top ranked tournament anglers ........ They run trailing & or hanging stingers _ So have these guys recognised the fact that fish are missed ..... regardless of reaction times & skill levels

    Everyone that I fished with last week all missed several fish when fishing plastics

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  15. #105

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Some point to consider -

    Force = Mass x acceleration

    For this exercise mass is the drag setting of 3kg

    gradual rod loading wont be considered but would apply equally.

    Acceleration is the following -

    3kph, this exerts 2.49 n and the lure moves 83mm in the hit time of 1/10 sec* (*assuming this is the length of time a barra has a lure in its gob)

    1.5kph this exerts 1.26 n and the lure moves 42mm in the hit time of 1/10 sec

    .75kph. this exerts .63 n and the lure moves 21mm in the hit time of 1/10 sec

    In a no strike situation it's easy to see that the faster the retrieve the higher the force applied by a single point to a fish's mouth and the more chance of an interception of the mouth because of the distance traveled in the 1/10 sec.

    Add a strike to all of the above scenarios

    Even at the ultra slow speed of a strike covering 1.3 metres in .4 of a sec the hook will move 325mm in 1/10 sec and exert a force of 97.5 n.

    There are a number of provisos here, one being, been quick enough to initiate the strike whilst the lure is in the mouth but you get the point.............or at least the fish should.

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