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  1. #61

    Thumbs up Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Quote Originally Posted by Tropicaltrout View Post
    Yep it is a different scenario and one that has probably hundreds of small different styles and ways around it but, as you know I am not a plastics bloke so can only comment on what I use, I feel conferdent now in my HB presentations and hookset styles and lets face it's not something that happens in a couple of trips so a few years would probably sum it up but still never be complete but at the end of the day in fishing nothing is certain or ever fool proof .

    This year in I am going to use SP's and hope to learn what you guys already have and hope to nail a few doing so. In saying that a thought of a very small stinger set up rigged via a piece of braid by a needle so that the small stinger sits in the tail itself may be a chance.... Pre set the stinger to the jig head according to the lenght of the Sp Insert the braid useing a needle so the braid tracks direct to the tail so theres less friction attach a small hook in the top of the tail pull it tight insert the jig head and a small extra chance maybe other then that I got nothin
    DO IT! TO IT!

    Quote Originally Posted by TinarooTriumph View Post
    G'day all.

    Just got back from what has to be one of the most memorable weekends on Tinaroo. Some cracker fish caught.

    Had a funny session on the Saturday afternoon... very relative to this topic. In a 4 hour period, I personally had over a dozen bites from fish of all sizes. All on the one particular plastic (FWIW, Storm Intense Kicking Shad). My first cast in the spot got absolutely nailed by a fish just on a metre and it took the lure just like most here, on the drop. Fought the fish for a good 2 minutes and got stuck right into it with my light spin outfit. 2m out from the boat the fish took a great leap and managed to shake the plastic free. Hook was in the corner of the mouth, though must have only just been 'skinned'. The amount of pressure I put on this fish was immense. My fishing partner was suprised at home much I had on the fish. No chaff on leader, although after a further 3 or 4 bites I had to change leader and these big fish were taking it down deep.

    During this session I had this exact ausfish thread in my mind the whole time. I didn't fall back into the resort of adding a stinger, instead worked on positioning myself in the boat as well as working different rod angles. Found gold when we decided to re-anchor over a few M's to our right in hope of fishing a tad deeper allowing for more pausing of the plastic. Mate landed an absolute stonker 5mins later. My technique didn't change too much, slow to medium roll of the plastic though after each subtle pause I would give a small 'jink' of the rod to further prepare myself for the strike. These jinks were very minute, and the next fish that came along was hooked - corner of the mouth yet again. Fish, just like most, hit the lure about 1/100th of a second into the roll after a good 3 second pause. Had I not been in position and jinked the lure to a) develop further tightness in the line b) have rod angle set and c) jinked the lure into a good striking position (with the head raised and the tail/hook down) then this fish was going to be yet another miss.

    Something else for a few out there to think about. Feel free to 'sponge' it if you will, but recognise the fact that its pretty simple thinking. I could go on further. Reason I won't is that I question the reasoning for some of those involved in this thread and their objectives, not just on this forum, but in the whole scheme of things. You know what paddock I'm in, thus making myself along way from the fence.

    cheers

    Theo
    Theo, thanks for your input, it is interesting. Please don't hold back on informative posts because
    "I question the reasoning for some of those involved in this thread and their objectives,"
    Take that with a grain of salt, many (most I hope) are genuinely interested in techniques, tips and practical thoughts, especially those based on experience. Skip through the banter mate and stay with thread for the benefit of those of us who have a real interest in fishing.

    The other stuff is just a laugh
    .


    Most of my Money is spent on Booze and Fishin.
    The Rest is just Wasted!
    To The Shed.............

  2. #62

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    I have an agenda.....and an objective.......

    to learn.


    I'm a bit perplexed that so many of us are reasonably highly educated, with successful careers, successful in business and generally fairly competently functional people, yet are deemed too simple to understand the complexities of modern barra techniques.

    The rod angle discussion makes a lot of sense and I have made the connection to why spin gear has become more popular in concert with the rise of soft plastics fishing. The higher rod angle seems to suit spin gear ergonomics pretty well spot on. I find the higher rod angle less comfortable/controlled when using baitcast gear hence my usual preference for doing it wrong. Some of that is due to my wrist strength not being as good as it used to be, some of it old habits.

    Cheers Roo.

  3. #63

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Quote Originally Posted by Roo View Post
    I have an agenda.....and an objective.......

    to learn.

    Cheers Roo.
    I think a lot of us have the same objective Roo

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  4. #64

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Quote Originally Posted by Roo View Post
    I have an agenda.....and an objective.......

    to learn.


    I'm a bit perplexed that so many of us are reasonably highly educated, with successful careers, successful in business and generally fairly competently functional people, yet are deemed too simple to understand the complexities of modern barra techniques.

    The rod angle discussion makes a lot of sense and I have made the connection to why spin gear has become more popular in concert with the rise of soft plastics fishing. The higher rod angle seems to suit spin gear ergonomics pretty well spot on. I find the higher rod angle less comfortable/controlled when using baitcast gear hence my usual preference for doing it wrong. Some of that is due to my wrist strength not being as good as it used to be, some of it old habits.

    Cheers Roo.
    i only fish high rod angles if required eg running plastics over shallower areas/frogging. to me whats important is rod angle relative to line direction

  5. #65

    Red face Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Quote Originally Posted by Roo View Post
    I have an agenda.....and an objective.......

    to learn.


    I'm a bit perplexed; hence my usual preference for doing it wrong. Some of that is due to my wrist strength not being as good as it used to be, some of it old habits.

    Cheers Roo.
    Perhaps it is your old habits that led to the wrist problems


    Most of my Money is spent on Booze and Fishin.
    The Rest is just Wasted!
    To The Shed.............

  6. #66

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    "I question the reasoning for some of those involved in this thread and their objectives,"
    My take on the above.

    There is no such thing as free information; itís paid for one way or another. With forums you make an investment as a response to what you have learnt or in the expectation youíll eventually gain something in return. Not swapping on a one-on-one basis but multiple pooling and individual sifting.

    There are two types of knowledge - earned and learned, earned itís owned and gained on the coalface. Leaned is hearsay until earned and only then it becomes valuable.

    When you make an investment earned information is coin of the realm. Regardless of its simplicity or complexity you have the right to expect to learn about what other people have earned - fair exchange.

    On a level playing field bartering is cool but what about when the field is skewed, for example recreational gain on one hand material gain on the other? Would you sell your information for the same price if you knew it was going to be exploited commercially rather than recreationally?

    What about learned information? It can be nothing more than a cut and paste, having it passing it off as Ďownedí amounts to nothing more than counterfeiting. Does it happen; is the playing field as level as it should be? Let common sense be your guide and bear in mind those who cry theyíve been cut to the quick often have the most to hide.


    Should that stop your bartering? That a personal call but made with your eyes open the decision is easier to make.


    Now learn this because itís been well earned

    There has been some talk about the strike, techniques and in passing - reaction. The latter bears some scrutiny if reaction speed equates to hooked fish. So whatís quicker, a barra implosion or the reactive strike? One is measured in 100ths of a second, the other in 10ths. Not much of a comparison but weíre not the one with an 8/0 in our mouth.

    How many can say they have been just as surprised at the fact they struck as they were at the hit, meaning both happened before the brain comprehended what was happening. Iíd suggest that most would be nodding at the fact itís happened to them, if not regularly, at least once or twice. What were the circumstances, awake, asleep, on edge or on drugs? Maintaining that level of preparedness over a sustained period does not come naturally, you train must for it.

    Now if you think lifting bevies and back slapping at the end of the day is training enough you have the wrong muscle type in your sights. Itís the fast twitch fibres you need to be working on and that means speed and resistance training and lot of reps. The more prone your body it to reacting at the subconscious (instinctive) level the more you can relax, the longer your body can maintain a state of readiness.

    What sorts of exercises are relevant? Others here have greater knowledge and may wish to add but boxing may be one, not so much the strike but bringing the hand back into a defensive position. There would be a number of options available on a sporting or purely training level that utilise rapid muscle contraction of the arms/hands/wrists. Be warned at the very least youíll earn a sweat.

  7. #67

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    I have an agenda.....and an objective.......Yes to learn ... And to teach what l have learned to others that want to learn.....

  8. #68

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Hey all ....... some great replies so far - I'm sure it gives us a bit to think about over our coming trips or when we next miss a strike .

    Keep it coming !

    On a side note , but it has been raised on this thread - There has been a questioning of the objective , motivation & agenda of a thread like this Since I'm the initiator / creator of the thread those comments I guess are aimed at me.
    OK ....

    We often cover plenty of subjects about impoundment barra fishing from tackle , lures , knots , leaders , lure modifications through to locating & handling barra. All great stuff!
    One area that seems to be neglected is the subject of this thread ...... something that happens to most of us at times , but we often dismiss it as bad luck & just a part of barra fishing..... Well I'm challenging that notion & rather than letting it slide - I'm putting it out there for discussion .
    As far as my own personal agenda ....... Thats easy to answer "To learn!"
    The mention of competition is interesting ! ....... Unlike those highly ranked competitors that lurk around these threads ..... rarely posting & keeping their cards close to their chest ....... As those that know me , know - I do believe in the concept of "Who shares wins"
    There are those hereabouts that have the ability to contribute significantly to a topic like this but for one reason or another wont ...... Just maybe they feel this type of information should be paid for......... or is just too important for their own personal success . -

    Anyhow .....

    Cheers

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  9. #69

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Well said Chris. Improving my/our fishing knowledge is the key motivator for even being on this forum.

    While it is nice to share (boast) about successful outcomes, it is more important to continue to improve...whether it be knowledge, technique, attitude or whatever.

    Many of us travelling fishos can only hit barra impoundments a few times a year, so any discussion on this forum becomes invaluable - especially if it is contributed to by the likes of local guides and local fishos (JM, Trev, Steve etc)...

    If there are hidden agendas then we, like many others, will choose to ignore them and concentrate on the learning objective.

    Regs

    Pete & Kyle

  10. #70

    Thumbs up Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    Hey all ....... some great replies so far - I'm sure it gives us a bit to think about over our coming trips or when we next miss a strike .

    Keep it coming !

    On a side note , but it has been raised on this thread - There has been a questioning of the objective , motivation & agenda of a thread like this Since I'm the initiator / creator of the thread those comments I guess are aimed at me.
    OK ....

    Cheers

    Chris
    Not necescellery Chris, I hope. my concern is that some perceive the banter, some of which is a friendly dig, some not friendly as a reason not to contribute for fear of criticism. I personally am keen to read any useful information especially that which is 'earned' (good comment) from any one willing to contribute whether they are a celebrity or mug punter like myself who has discovered something or treid something of interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter4 View Post
    Well said Chris. Improving my/our fishing knowledge is the key motivator for even being on this forum.

    While it is nice to share (boast) about successful outcomes, it is more important to continue to improve...whether it be knowledge, technique, attitude or whatever.

    Many of us travelling fishos can only hit barra impoundments a few times a year, so any discussion on this forum becomes invaluable - especially if it is contributed to by the likes of local guides and local fishos (JM, Trev, Steve etc)...

    If there are hidden agendas then we, like many others, will choose to ignore them and concentrate on the learning objective.

    Regs

    Pete & Kyle

    Xactly
    !


    Now back to the topic!
    Possibly fodder for another post but now Chris has everyone's attention;
    As Always
    and the purpose is to convert hello to hook up so I trust it is appropriate here.

    Stingers? who uses them? I have rigged some for this weekends Muster. Any one care to comment. It principle it seems to make sense, the only concern being the effect on the plastic movement if any?


    Most of my Money is spent on Booze and Fishin.
    The Rest is just Wasted!
    To The Shed.............

  11. #71

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Quote Originally Posted by darylive View Post
    Perhaps it is your old habits that led to the wrist problems
    Daryl, That has been suggested to me on more than one occasion, usually accompanied by an assertion of "where to go" and some single finger gesticulation to guide me on the best direction to get there....usually up

    Thanks Dick,
    So we can add to the subject to include Focus and Preparation, both mentally an physically. Being focussed on the job at hand to give yourself the best opportunity to minimise response time to the point of being second nature, almost without needing a mental process to initiate the response, that said The human brain is a very powerful processor, how many things is it doing right now without you needing to "think" about it. I'd suggest that mental stimulus is key to training the brain, no amount physical work can substitute for the power to be unlocked in your head.

    Cheers Roo.

  12. #72

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Interesting thread, my thoughts from a week in the field.


    Converting taps/flutters

    We had a lot of taps/bumps and very light flutters throughout the trip on hollowbellys. The guys who used more of a hopping/erratic retrieve got a higher percentage of comitted bites, I believe because the lures were being worked more erratically, the barra had to chase the lures harder and comit to them.

    I used a very slow rolling retrieve 95% of the time, and got a lot of very light touches. I believe the barra were able to follow the the hollowbellys easily have a little slurp on the tail to see if they wanted to eat them.

    I was able to convert these very light touches to bites on three occasions, by giving the rod a quick double hop before recommencing the slow roll. The barra then ate them with conviction. Although this occurred three times there were an additional 15 -20 light touches I didn't convert.

    Rod Position and Striking

    The guys who were hopping/erratically retrieving had rod angles all over the shop, and never had the butt of the rod braced against the body. They were using their wrist to impart action, and to strike. They got less touches, but more decent bites, however their hookup rate was quite low, I believe it is due to not being able to react quickly with enough strength to set hooks. They also tended to drop more fish throughout the fight.

    I stuck with my technique of using a baitcast outfit, with the butt locked firmly against the body. Very slow rolling with the rod pointed at the lure at all times. I probably didn't get as many comitted hits as some of the crew, but when I did, my hook up and conversion rate was better.

    Converting barra bites is dead set the most frustrating aspect I've ever encountered in any form of fishing.

    My belief is that when a barra inhales a lure, there is no way I can strike quickly enough to set the hook. If my rod is on an angle, when a barra inhales it will pull the angle out of the rod with little resistance, it also allows you less angle to strike.

    If the rod is pointing directly at the lure, when a barra commits, it is dealing directly with drag pressure on the reel, I then have the ability to strike and set that hook deeply. Just my theory

    The rod I used was a 6'3" 10 -15kg rod which is quite stiff, and I really felt very confident with it as the week progressed.

    Great thread, I'm sure we will never solve this mystery, but we will keep trying.

    Cheers,

    Matt

  13. #73

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    The rod angle discussion makes a lot of sense and I have made the connection to why spin gear has become more popular in concert with the rise of soft plastics fishing. The higher rod angle seems to suit spin gear ergonomics pretty well spot on. I find the higher rod angle less comfortable/controlled when using baitcast gear hence my usual preference for doing it wrong. Some of that is due to my wrist strength not being as good as it used to be, some of it old habits.

    Cheers Roo.[/quote]

    One of the best paragraphs i've seen you post Roo well done mate, lots of thinking there and food for thought to run with.

    With the baitcaster having the reel on top gravity is alwasy going to dictate that 100% of the time it will want the reel to be underneath the rod e.g.
    in a spin setup.

    In this area the baitcaster has a mechanical disadvantage. Being on top it will provide some rotational force on our grip which is more challenging for us to handle (stabilise), if we are trying to react to this force then there is a % of our focus shifting away from the task of making landing the fish easier? Even is it's slight atleast now it's on the radar for everyone. e.g. the body won't like sitting in umcomfy seats for too long, all of a sudden it will react and want to get in a better position. Distraction. Not focus.

    My mate scotty is way smarter than me but i'll give it a go. Although this has been covered in the spin thread a while back.

    The strike position in a spin setup is like a boxers punch on the return phase. Although the rod is usually held a foot or 2 lower than a normal punch (Jab). With the mechanical advantage of no gravity putting rotational force on the rod it has to be an advantage from where i'm looking, but i realise people will disagree, no stress there.

    Roo you might be being a bit hard on yourself mate.
    If your reel is up around sternum or chest high with palms cupping the rod and reel e.g. palms slightly facing the sky instead of a solid handshake grip on a spin rod while fighting ( A strong & stable position.).

    If your parms and rod is in this high position it's simple evolution and mechanics. We are not designed to be strong in that position. You can train to be, but who will do that on here for their barra fishing?

    So in summary if you get in a debate on here guys like on the spin thread and ignore what was said by guys in that trade, helping people will be made harder and frustrate the hell out of the people trying to help.

    Talking about the limitations of a baitcaster like soft plastic limitations has for a long time been sort of a quiet subject people have been sorta scared to approach.

    I got the feeling some people were so close to their baitcasters and soft plastic companies that they tucked them in to bed before their kids. Looking at some other posts recently it makes you wonder.

    Ausfish & sweetwater have done well to get this quality info to rise to the surface for the general public to see and hopefully even learn just 1 thing from a thread that will help them out.

    Cheers Lyndon.


  14. #74

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Pasfield View Post
    My take on the above.

    There is no such thing as free information; itís paid for one way or another. With forums you make an investment as a response to what you have learnt or in the expectation youíll eventually gain something in return. Not swapping on a one-on-one basis but multiple pooling and individual sifting.

    There are two types of knowledge - earned and learned, earned itís owned and gained on the coalface. Leaned is hearsay until earned and only then it becomes valuable.

    When you make an investment earned information is coin of the realm. Regardless of its simplicity or complexity you have the right to expect to learn about what other people have earned - fair exchange.

    On a level playing field bartering is cool but what about when the field is skewed, for example recreational gain on one hand material gain on the other? Would you sell your information for the same price if you knew it was going to be exploited commercially rather than recreationally?

    What about learned information? It can be nothing more than a cut and paste, having it passing it off as Ďownedí amounts to nothing more than counterfeiting. Does it happen; is the playing field as level as it should be? Let common sense be your guide and bear in mind those who cry theyíve been cut to the quick often have the most to hide.


    Should that stop your bartering? That a personal call but made with your eyes open the decision is easier to make.


    Now learn this because itís been well earned

    There has been some talk about the strike, techniques and in passing - reaction. The latter bears some scrutiny if reaction speed equates to hooked fish. So whatís quicker, a barra implosion or the reactive strike? One is measured in 100ths of a second, the other in 10ths. Not much of a comparison but weíre not the one with an 8/0 in our mouth.

    It's like the starting blocks at the Olympics, they are set to go off as a false start if the deemed fastest possible human reaction time is broken, i think it's around .015 or .15 of a second, i don't have time to look it up but i think everyone will acknowledge that the guys in the 100m final at the Olympics will react very quickly compared to a person who hasn't trained his reflexes or has a sedentary job. Simple facts of life, no way to make the above sentence feel any better sorry if i've offended anyone.

    Where are our reactions right now? Self judge in own time.

    If we lined up against Usain Bolt people would be saying gee those fellas are slow aren't they, it would be plainly obvious. Knowing what is possible is a line i use to keep me thinking.

    e.g. with Bolt in the field of the 100 m everyone can plainly see that a close to 9.50 second 100m is now possible, yet for most of history to date people wouldn't have dreamed that being possible, now one person has shown it is, i see this when guides post on here, we learn thousands of things that we never thought possible.

    After this race with Bolt our reflexes would be measured, we would be measured from 1-10. Only then do we know what we need to do to improve. So the ball goes back to the individuals court, we all have the opportunity to improve our reflexes if we are not involved in reflex work, hobbies we would be a bit slower off the mark and some way off the mark. A simple rod & reel change could be a start, then position and so on, we can all do that. Even kids.

    The interesting thing is if everything thinks they have fast reflexes when self judged. So now we don't need to improve which could result in a level 2 game (strike%) being sent out to fight a level 10 opposition e.g. barra really touchy and using only a tenth of a second to get rid of your plastic or lure.

    The only other way to explain this is to do it bluntly. If you went in to a ring and got knocked out more times than you were happy with e.g. losing fish and not happy. How many times do you need to be knocked out to stat looking at change and then actually make the changes that are needed?

    All the info is on the net for free to now do so.

    Wouldn't some training in spotted weaker areas or some changes be a good idea? How many knockouts, (e.g. lost fish that we should have caught) do we need to have for the message to be thought of as a good idea? Are simple facts of movement only good ideas if your mate says they are? Or are they good if someone takes the time to print them on here.

    Note:
    At times i dont think we can react quicker than the barra can We at times lose by coming up against a better opposition on the day. But this can't be a line used to make excuses for our game all the time to resist change.

    How many can say they have been just as surprised at the fact they struck as they were at the hit, meaning both happened before the brain comprehended what was happening. Iíd suggest that most would be nodding at the fact itís happened to them, if not regularly, at least once or twice. What were the circumstances, awake, asleep, on edge or on drugs? Maintaining that level of preparedness over a sustained period does not come naturally, you train must for it.

    Now if you think lifting bevies and back slapping at the end of the day is training enough you have the wrong muscle type in your sights. Itís the fast twitch fibres you need to be working on and that means speed and resistance training and lot of reps. The more prone your body it to reacting at the subconscious (instinctive) level the more you can relax, the longer your body can maintain a state of readiness.

    What sorts of exercises are relevant? Others here have greater knowledge and may wish to add but boxing may be one, not so much the strike but bringing the hand back into a defensive position. There would be a number of options available on a sporting or purely training level that utilise rapid muscle contraction of the arms/hands/wrists. Be warned at the very least youíll earn a sweat.



    I'd like to say that this is one of the best posts i've seen on Ausfish.

    Cheers Lyndon.




  15. #75

    Re: Converting barra taps , nips & bites to hookups

    Perfect!!!

    Finally now it is visible to see that we are all on much the same wave length.
    Before this thread, it was pretty darn evident that a few weren't.

    Well done to those that posted 'we are here to learn'. Thats what I and a few others needed to see.

    This is a good thread with some good info. Lets get into it!!!!!!

    Cheers
    Thei
    TT

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